Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid Manga Discussion

[Craxuan]

Dude, it's not even Earth and they have horses, so if you're trying to explain it all it'll be like trying to explain cosmos. No need to get serious really. >_>

[Enternal]

Lol! About the Horses, dude down here in Portland during the summer you see horses quite frequently. We have cars, pedicabs, bicycles, buses, MAX, and other mode of transportation. It's modern day why the hell do we have horses? Just because. So maybe in Ancient Belka when they don't want to use high tech mode of transportation, they just go and uses horses. I don't see an issue here about horses.

@ Craxuan
Hell it's not even Earth and they even have humans. And wars and royalty and other human things.

I think people are being a bit nitpicky on the horses. Poor horses getting picked on all the time.

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Maybe it's one of the basics for people who have that potential to do it. Ground mages just have no potential for flight magic. But it kinda looks like Teana might have learned a thing or two about this in Vivid, judging by the way she was standing on her magic circle during the practice match (it could have been on the ground, but it's really hard to see).



Well, this is the Vivid thread, and discussion of the horse is part of the Vivid material. :P Just so we're on the same page, can you point me to where the horse shows up? I actually can't recall it off hand, and could use a refresher.

Also, this is a magic universe, with many magical animals. Wouldn't surprise me if the horse could sprout pegasus-like wings or something.

Also, magic civilization... perhaps this was their tech level, and while they could magically make some things, they were essentially a standard fantasy civilization. Teleport magic could enable them to move from world to world without ships. Which was why the Cradle, something from Al-Hazard, was such a big advantage for the Kaiser.

I will say that, it would be nice to see more of ancient Belka and get some more explanations and a clearer picture of what it was like back then, so that everything makes sense. You're partially right in that we only have guesses and theories to work off of. One of the things I wanted to see from Vivid, was more ancient Belkan backstory (probably shown through Olive and Claus).

So I don't see anything that's inconsistent, per se; just things that are awaiting an official explanation (and that we fit with theory in the meantime).

That also reminds me of how the Cradle and the EMF field. It's the reason why it requires the soldiers to be proficient in battle without magic isnt' it? Calvary battle on ship (granted that would be very odd)!

[00-Raiser]

Pick your theory of creation: Parallel evolution, panspermia, or perhaps an advanced progenitor race that colonized the universe.

[Rising Dragon]

Maybe someone from Belka passed by old Earth one day and kidnapped a bunch of horses because s/he thought they looked cool.

[itanshi1]

i'm so stealing that one

nah they could have grown their as natural as any probability. I mean that Belkans are humanoid might be weird too, i dunno.

[00-Raiser]

See, a lot of this stuff is just sweating irrelevant details. That ancient Belka had horses or the exact methodology of teleportation doesn't matter at all.

[Iromaru]

I think Belkan aristocracy lived in a similar style to Code Geass aristocracy. They also had mecha and other crazy tech, yet regularly used horses and carriages just because they are stylish.

And about horses on alien planets, remember that we have humans living on alien planets in the first place.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

(it could have been on the ground, but it's really hard to see).

One of the drawback of Vivid's art style. It's hard to discern the fight details. I can't even figure whether Heidid and Vivio actually fly there or just run really fast.

Just so we're on the same page, can you point me to where the horse shows up? I actually can't recall it off hand, and could use a refresher.

The special chapters. I think ch. 17 also has one.

Also, this is a magic universe, with many magical animals. Wouldn't surprise me if the horse could sprout pegasus-like wings or something.

Also, magic civilization... perhaps this was their tech level, and while they could magically make some things, they were essentially a standard fantasy civilization.

Maybes maybes maybes perhaps perhaps perhaps guesses guesses guesses...might as well go all the way and theorize that the horse are actually the avatar of Nanohaverse God

Which was why the Cradle, something from Al-Hazard, was such a big advantage for the Kaiser.

A bit off-topic, but IIRC the Cradle was never mentioned as being from Al-Hazard, just and older civilization.

So I don't see anything that's inconsistent, per se; just things that are awaiting an official explanation (and that we fit with theory in the meantime).

Just to straighten things up, my problem about the horse is less that there are horses in the setting (like Ironmaru said, there's suspiciously similar humans too), it's that the Kings of technologically and magically advanced nations use this:
-primitive
-impractical to fight with, compared to, say, just fight with their signature magical martial arts, which never mentioned fighting while riding horse (why should they? They could fly)
-difficult to defend compared to magically-hardened APC's, vip gunships, or just freakin's battleships,
mode of transportation. Mind you, the last two points are especially important, since Kings are prime assassination targets, and this was an age of war.

Instead of using those aforementioned rides, which would make sense since they a)have the technology and b)have been shown to use one (the battleship), both Kings Olivia and Klaus use the one thing that would raise questions....without any explanation whatsoever.

But more importantly, the horse is just the most blatant example of one worrying sign: that the artist seem to missed the message that Old Belka was medieval-ish and made it full medieval.

Lets take a look at the Wolkenritters. They use the term Knight and use weapons like sword and hammer to indicate a medieval flavor, but they are decidedly also technologically advanced due to their devices, including their cartridge system and Shamal's sensors. They're also magically advanced, with their use of offensive spells that could annihilate platoons in one swipe.

Then look at Vivid.

Stone castles.
Tents.
Soldiers, numbers of them, fighting in close packs, nevermind that considering the firepower magic could unleash moving in tight formations is suicide. Even if they use melee weapons, the soldiers should have been spread to mitigate the effects of area attacks and rapid-fire, avoiding the reenactment of the final battle of The Last Samurai.
No indication the weapons used are devices (their medieval shape not helping), nor any signs of advanced equipments.

In short: Old Belka as shown in previous series' was an advanced civilization but with medieval aesthetics and flavors. Old Belka, what little it appeared, as shown in Vivid? Actually medieval.

It's as if aside from the Cradle, the Old Belkans never actually went beyond pre-gunpowder era.

One of the things I wanted to see from Vivid, was more ancient Belkan backstory (probably shown through Olive and Claus).

Considering that the Belkan flashbacks are mostly there so justify a connection between Vivio and Heidi (read: reincarnation romance), I doubt it there would be any detail 'cept things that would spice the shiptease.

It would be better if there's a supplementary manga that devoted more to the Old Belkan details, but Olivia and Klaus are het and would have little appeal to the yuri fanbase, as well as being adults thus little appeal to the loli fanbase

[Kuze]

To accentuate Tiresias's point, I'd look at the world of Sora no Kiseki or Trails in the Sky. Which definitely does have a ye olden mainland flavor, but is definitely anything but primitive. Of course, that doesn't mean that people throw away the blades and sticks and take up guns in mass, it means that there's a greater amount of variety because of skilled individuals who chose what's suited to them instead of being thrown into one catch all category.

(of course, then Zero and Ao come into play with their "OMFG WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SPACE AGE GEORGE JETSON INSANITY", but that's another post)

To put it like this? I'm not saying that there should've been footsoldiers in tactical gear running around with reflex sighted assault rifles or smart grenade launchers or portable Redeemers with satellite guidance, but come on, don't just have them all armed with the exact same armor and the exact same sword. Have a few squads armed with jezzails or something.

And now having wasted two minutes of my time, I return to reading about Yurikawa.

[Sheba]

The RPG Fading Suns is a good example of Space Empire + Dark Ages done well. The Empire is so vast that it is not surprising to have polearm-armed peasants drafted together with mercs fit better in Aliens hired by the universe's megacorporation. Also Space Vikings and Space Arabs. Can't go wrong with them.

[Kuze]

Hrm. ViViD 30 CN scans went out and about.

Spoiler for Words, words, words:

First off, the pacing in the first third? That is just plain bad. If Mass Effect had this many interrupts, my desktop would explode out of exasperation.

Second....I didn't understand what effect Corona's self manipulation had. Did it heal up her body a bit or something, so that she could continue using her arts?

Third, Einhart reveals that when Corona throws her most powerful stuff at her, she can defeat Corona in a single hit. That is to say, Einhart decides to punch with that Hegemon fightan' arts and there's all of nothing Corona can do except A: Take it and B: Like it.

And that, considering the binding + ground pound combo that Corona thought up? And everything else?

To be fair, this still isn't as lame as what I thought the spoilers were saying. But as it is scripted out, it's whiplash. Poorly written whiplash. Thumbs down ViViD, thumbs down.

[Justin_Brett]

It looked like Corona was basically having the golem do what she did to me.

[Kuze]

For all of what I considering, I never thought you'd be a character in ViViD Justin. Which one are you?

And how much in union dues does Tsuzuki get?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Kuze

Hrm. ViViD 30 CN scans went out and about.

Spoiler for Words, words, words:

First off, the pacing in the first third? That is just plain bad. If Mass Effect had this many interrupts, my desktop would explode out of exasperation.

Second....I didn't understand what effect Corona's self manipulation had. Did it heal up her body a bit or something, so that she could continue using her arts?

Third, Einhart reveals that when Corona throws her most powerful stuff at her, she can defeat Corona in a single hit. That is to say, Einhart decides to punch with that Hegemon fightan' arts and there's all of nothing Corona can do except A: Take it and B: Like it.

And that, considering the binding + ground pound combo that Corona thought up? And everything else?

To be fair, this still isn't as lame as what I thought the spoilers were saying. But as it is scripted out, it's whiplash. Poorly written whiplash. Thumbs down ViViD, thumbs down.

So, Einhart was fighting with a hand tied on her back all the time? I think that´s a bit mean from her part.

[Enternal]

Actually I think she was trying to be kind by not blowing Corona out of the water right away. Instead she tried to fight Corona equally and win in a more subtle way but in the end Corona have gotten strong enough that there's no need for holding back anymore and Einhart can go outright. At least that's what I think.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Actually I think she was trying to be kind by not blowing Corona out of the water right away. Instead she tried to fight Corona equally and win in a more subtle way but in the end Corona have gotten strong enough that there's no need for holding back anymore and Einhart can go outright. At least that's what I think.

It's a less ¨jerky¨ explanation that i hope end up the one being used. Otherwise, Einhart will look a bit prepotent here with her "oh noes, i'm too strong for Corona so i must hold back" which is also a bit disrespectful to Corona's effot as that means Einhart thinks she's not good enough to fight her seriously. Of course, this being ViVid, i'm pretty sure the explanation will be closer to what Enternal said and Einhart will apologize for her inital behavior with Corona promising to become even stronger for their next match.

[Justin_Brett]

For all of what I considering, I never thought you'd be a character in ViViD Justin. Which one are you?

And how much in union dues does Tsuzuki get?

...what? I just read the scans and that's what I got from them.

[Kuze]

Well, "Corona was basically having the golem do what she did to me." and all. What Corona did to you, Justin. I sense a conflict of manga readership interest going on here!

[Justin_Brett]

Oh, okay, typo joke. How novel.