Negima Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Negima, Episode 19!

Thread Guidelines

• No telling or asking for raws.
• Try to keep spoilers from the Manga out of the anime thread.
  If you need to reply to someone with a reference to the Manga, either PM them or use clearly marked Spoiler tags (see example below).
• Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
• Be polite to your fellow forum members.
• Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Example

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...becomes...

Spoiler for Your title:

Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

[eggplant]

Spoiler for Episode 19:

SD Negima!? special, lol
From the special opening to the majority of the epsiode, this episode featured the classmates except Eva and Chachamaru in their Suka mode appearance.

Err... this is episode 19 of a 26 ep series... um, what happened to plot development?

Fiction: Director Shinbou Akyuki "Too busy with Hidamari to bother with Negima!?"
Producer Ootsuki Toshimichi: Heck, DVD Vol. 1 sold 10,000 copies, the CDs are selling well, and Konami was able to advertise myriads of Negima games, who cares about content?"

Hm, do I hear cries of "Bring back Miyazaki Nagisa"?

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by eggplant

Spoiler:

Hm, do I hear cries of "Bring back Miyazaki Nagisa"?

Spoiler:

Now, that would have been something to see him work along side Shinbo's style. :3

Still, i think the shows got something good going for it - that being Shinbo's style. Though of course, story is needed, and i can't see it appearing.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by eggplant

Spoiler for Episode 19:

Err... this is episode 19 of a 26 ep series... um, what happened to plot development?

Fiction: Director Shinbou Akyuki "Too busy with Hidamari to bother with Negima!?"

My point exactly.

Spoiler:

With this episode having "filler" written all over it (not to mention the fact that it would have worked better as an OAV episode set in an alternate universe where everyone actually was animals), it's obvious that Shinbou Akyuki is more busy focusing on Hidamari Sketch rather than Negima!?. Here's hoping that Hidamari Sketch makes up for the downfall of quality in Negima!?, since I have a goofy story idea that involves a plan to kidnap Shinbou in hopes of saving the Negima!? TV series.

Moral of the story:
-Shinbou, for now, should just stick to one series at a time (and he should have held back the premiere of Hidarmari Sketch until spring so that way Negima!? could have a second half that is enjoyable as the first half);
-Having almost all of Negi's students Pactio with him midway through the series is a bad idea.

However, if there's two good things that come from the episode, it's:
1. the eyecatch of Nodoka in a sexy seal bodysuit;
2. the hope that the next seven episodes will finally have REAL Pactio action (instead of the Suka crap that has appeared in the last three episodes).

[Vexx]

I've been watching the raws of Hidamari Sketch and:

Spoiler for doesn't reveal much of HS but...:

Hidamari Sketch is gold stuff ala AzuDa/IchigoMas with light dustings of PPD. I only understand about half the dialog (which is pun-filled I understand) and it still rocks.

Its pretty clear to me at this point that Shinbo "took the money and ran" on Negima!? and it is now drifting aimlessly in the wind and may just sputter out.

The remaining win is still all these lovely little comedy bits and eyecatches... the loss to Negima fans is more strategic and the production company *ought* to be pissed. Far too much "suka" far too little action -- certainly not enough focus on the girls (which is an underlying sellpoint no matter how much Ken wants to do "shounen" whatever...). Still tagging the series as "entertaining but ultimately disappointing".
oy vey dah suka...

[relentlessflame]

Shinbo being the Chief Director of Hidamari Sketch is more like an advisory role, seeing as the show's actual director is Ryouki Kamitsubo. Plus, I'm sort of confused for how you all imagine anime production works if you all really believe that the way a turns in its second half could have anything at all to do with one single person's supervisory role in a second production that is substantially being produced by a completely seperate team. The directoral decisions about the story for Negima!? were made probably a year ago or more. Each episode has its own episode director, storyboard artist, and art/animation supervisors. And again, most of their episode work probably began over six-to-nine months ago or more -- otherwise, how could they possibly get it to air on-time? -- and, again, they weren't at the same time working on Hidamari Sketch. On top of that, shows losing a bit of steam just before the final push aren't exactly uncommon either.

I'm not at all trying to take away your dislike, but the reasoning you're all turning to is completely baffling to me. Since when does anime production work like that? Even if they had delayed Hidamari Sketch's airing to April, this is still the episode they had planned a long time ago when they did the Series Script and Composition. Shouldn't you just say that you don't like it?

[Vexx]

I'm trying to figure out why Shinbo blew it so bad with what should have been an easy show... allowing for pre-production work (yes, I know about preproduction) there's still an overlap. Basically I'm looking for some reason outside of "he just royally took the money and went to sleep" on the last 7 or 8 episodes after a really stellar series start.
Even the most ardent Shinbo fans are scratching their heads here (and not just on this forum).

[relentlessflame]

Ultimately, I suppose that history and sales will judge whether Shinbo "blew it" or not, as you speculate. Maybe this is just the show Shinbo and the production team wanted to create, even if some/many (anecdotal at this point) don't like the way it's turning out? Who knows, really. Sales and ratings are still looking okay at the moment. A director presents their vision, and history decides how it'll be remembered, if at all. We'll never know all the circumstances that went into a production, or various pressures and influences that are applied. But to me, "he took the money and went to sleep" is not one of the likely options, and neither is "he's been spending his time on another show". Even the Xebec production, that was littered with fan complaints and production problems, didn't fail out of directorial malice or incompetence. It's not that simple.

In any event, on the whole, I still say this show has been a lot of fun for me. But then again, I've liked some really poor-selling shows, so I don't claim to be any sort of authority. But if I enjoy a show, the director didn't fail me, and that's all I really care about. And I still wonder if "maybe this show just isn't for me" isn't more logical than looking for reasons to blame someone else, no matter how many people and places share your feelings of disappointment. But hey, that's just my opinion, of course.

[Vexx]

Hey, the whole forum is about opinion

To some extent, there's some suffering because it is being compared to his other works (TMP, PPD, etc). Allowing for the show appearing to focus on humor rather than plot or action, some Shinbo fans (I'm sidestepping Negima fans for the moment) feel it comes up stumbling for humor after the first 10ish episodes. There's a lot of moments in the show that are priceless... but as the anime group at work said last week, "what? MORE suka? ... O never mind!" and now it isn't on the lunchtime watch list.

(thinks of Yamato Nadesico Shichi Henge and the director's reliance on the same 3 'jokes' for about 10 episodes while interesting stuff lay festering)

I think whether the tide turns for me will depend on the next episode... as someone said hopefully, "maybe they got all the suka out of their system" this episode.

[TnAdct1]

If you really want my opinion on how Negima!? could have went downhill, outside of Hidamari Sketch, there's one other thing that may have caused it: the idea of having almost all of Negi's students find out his secret (and make Pactios with him) halfway through the series run. Basically, the huge risk that SHAFT made of having all of 3-A discover Negi's secret at the end of episode 12 has ended up backfiring on them. Why do I say this? Two big reasons for this:

1. It ends up ruining the excellent plot structure that the show had from episodes 4-12 (a main plot that focuses on Negi, his Ministra Magi, and the "girl of the week"; sub-plots/short bits involving the other students);
2. When it comes to those girls who have made their Pactios in episode 14, the only ones who actualy had any real (i.e. non-Suka) action were Sayo and Ayaka, two girls that already had some major focus in the first half of the series.

As I and another person agreed on in another board, unless there's a situation where Negi needs to Pactio with several girls, the mass Pactio should have been avoided at all costs.

[Vexx]

(adds "pactio shark-jumping" to list of probables)
The sad thing is that implies they really hadn't fleshed out the latter half of the series story-board style before they hit the jet thrusters...

ah well... I've put my knives back in the drawer to see if perhaps they pull out of their creativity slump ... since they're not doing Negima I should at least get Shinbo for my time.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The sad thing is that implies they really hadn't fleshed out the latter half of the series story-board style before they hit the jet thrusters...

But, but... Argh... I'm really bad at explaining myself. All it really implies that this is the direction they decided to take the story. There's no evidence to suggest that they didn't do their homework and plan this out from day one. The "randomness" and different storytelling angles has been part of the style all along, IMO. I just really don't get why "this is exactly the show that Shinbo wanted to create" is so impossible to consider. Why exactly are we so sure that someone must, obviously, have "screwed up"? That's what I don't for the life of me understand...

[Vexx]

Mostly because I've seen Shinbo's other efforts ... this one just doesn't seem to be hitting the same levels???? If it was case of lacking material, then its probably the best that could be done but since he assertively dumped the source material, he's on the hook for producing something shiny like his other winning series. Of course, I assume he did what he intended... but then I intend that every design I come up with be implemented easily and be easy to maintain (whoops, splat).

I'm sounding way too negative ... I *really* liked the first 5-8 episodes, premise, "alternative", art style, wacky, .... but then like Yamato Nadesico Shichi Henge, it seemed trapped in a cul de sac (YNSH seemed trapped in the same 3 jokes for almost 9 episodes). Now YNSH has recently taken a sudden turn out of the pit of doom <shrug> perhaps Negima!? will wake up again as well.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Mostly because I've seen Shinbo's other efforts ... this one just doesn't seem to be hitting the same levels???? If it was case of lacking material, then its probably the best that could be done but since he assertively dumped the source material, he's on the hook for producing something shiny like his other winning series. Of course, I assume he did what he intended... but then I intend that every design I come up with be implemented easily and be easy to maintain (whoops, splat).

So basically you're saying "I like the director, and I like the source material, but I'm not liking the way this has been going... why not?" I think everyone can identify with that question. But don't you think blaming your mixed feelings on "objective flaws in the production process" is a bit problematic for people who like it the way it is? You're blazing straight through what it is exactly that you do and don't like, and all the way to "it must be their fault". That's quite a leap. If they really did something wrong, then shouldn't I feel the same way? Why is it that we see it differently? Pretty hard question, perhaps, but impossible to discuss unless we both admit that "maybe, at least in part, it's just me after all". Then we can find common ground. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

[Vexx]

Fair enough - assessments are always personal though they can be somewhat objective depending on the metrics or lack of them ....

... of course if the fansub project fades into oblivion it may cease to matter
(wanders away for a second)
I reviewed the sub release dates ... last drop was 7jan07 and we got eps 10-13, before that there were 2 in december and 4 in November. I would guess we're about due for another drop but Mahora's been pretty quiet though a visit to their website shows they're not dead per se...

[Deathkillz]

so i guess most of us here are saying how hard this series is failing ~ plotwise it has completely gone...as evidence for the 3 minute OP cause there isnt any material worthwhile to put into the ep ~ putting it in a bad way i nearly fell asleep ~ and still at the end im thinking..."what the hell was the point of this ep?" as clearly it didnt tell us anything new that we didnt know already ~

[USCPharmacist]

I am sorry, but the jokes usually go over my head, I guess I have to be Japanese to understand. On the other hand, this episode is really funny in some parts, and if you just watch it as a crazy comedy it is actually not bad, like Keroro Gunsou.

[Child_of_Sierra]

They could have just made a spin-off series based on the premise of this episode alone

I would have enjoyed it much more since it would not be so confusing (granted I am watching raws without much japanese knowledge...) and then all the randomness would not seem so out of place (or too much) whenever "something" happens.

I usually try to avoid a show whenever I realize that it was not meant for my taste but the "NEGIMA" label (nevermind that they said it would be different than the manga or previous tv series) drew me in like a moth to the flame.

So even as I cringe at the falling humor (puns are way too deep for the average non-japanese watcher) and increasing still frames (at least these are preferrable to constantly reused animation) I burn myself weekly by watching the episodes. I don't think the series is [insert deregatory comment here] since i do enjoy it half the time but its not something I would recommend to my friends... (except for the first few and this one ).

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

They could have just made a spin-off series based on the premise of this episode alone

Preferably, I'd go for an "alternate universe" OAV, although I don't mind a "suka universe" series in which Chupacabra Negi goes on a journey with boar piglet Asuna, seal Nodoka, koala Konoka, and Japanese crane Setsuna (with the rest being characters that they either meet on their journey, or

Spoiler for manga:

in the case of owl Yue, pengi Haruna, and kitsune Chisame, join Negi and his buds on their journey.

[dahl_moon]

My interest for this series had tapered off with episode 17 raw, and I've caught up to 18 and 19. ed it! Why hadn't we seen this earlier? If this was shown right after the mass-pactio, and dumped the black baron, I would have enjoyed this series ten-fold.

I'm still attempting to download the rest of the episodes, but I am stuck for the time being on an ultra-thin pipe, so who knows how long it will take to download.