(CR) The Wrong Way to use Healing Magic

[Rasty]

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Lush forests don't burn on their own but magic and fuel makes even those quite burnable. And you only need to burn enough around it to prevent an easy escape. The reality is, preparing defenses is slower and going around is always easier. Locking down a force that was intent on defending is also not difficult.

Defenders historically need to either have a relief army coming to force the besiegers away or have a weather element (usually winter) that does the same thing. Without that, the attacking force has the advantage unless they throw away their advantage by pressing unnecessarily Hollywood style.

Only the part you set on fire, it won't spread and that's the problem. Also besieging a force like this means, they can attack a single side and go against a fourth of your army before taking on the rest, you need to have a significant power advantage and if you do, it's much crazier to meet you in the field straight on.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Furthermore, the idea that a pillaging attack force needs supply lines more than defenders is incorrect. The limit for a strong pillaging attack force is whether the soldiers get sick of it. Only scorched earth tactics combined with winter (or similar inclement weather and disease, swamps and malaria come to mind) can actually stop that and it's a Pyrrhic victory at best if you're forced to rely on that.

Untrue, the city/es can pull most of the food from surrounding villages ahead and a large part of the rest with the evacuating villagers, so the army actually has very little to pillage. Sure, they can scavenge around the forests, but that again weakens the army (by splitting up), and the area easily gets eaten dry by a huge mob of soldiers. On the other hand, the defenders already have huge amounts of food prepared inside, so they can usually outlast their enemy.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

In any case, the tactics in anime/WN's/movies are always questionable in the first place. But fortifying more in a fixed outpost isn't something that usually works either. Going around historically has usually been the answer that worked really well as long as the fortification itself isn't the strategic objective (like the capital city).

I am not saying fortify more, I am saying fortify smarter (no 3 layers in one place, single layer everywhere). And it's one thing if the tactics were anime thing, but the whole kidnapping thing doesn't make sense without the battlefield being such a huge chaotic mess, so this is likely the same in the LN.

[ChronoReverse]

Well it doesn't matter, I only was speaking from how things worked in history and it doesn't apply in the story. Sure they could've done your tactics and it would certainly work out if the story were written that way.

[Rasty]

I am not sure where you are taking the "how things worked in history" from since this is certainly NOT how it worked in history. If it did, there would be no forts or castles and any state that got even minimal advantage would steamroll everyone around since offense would have an advantage over defense, but that's not how history played out. Sure, I am not a trained historian, but I have read quite a lot (and listened to over a hundred of hours of various historians speaking) about medieval warfare, so I don't think I am completely clueless.

[grecefar]

a vision of the future can't change but it can be perceived differently. The vision happened but it doesn't mean they were dead and usato will manage to save them.

now how to beat that OP ability, there is not imagine breaker here.

[magnuskn]

I would not be surprised if some sort of reversion of Usato's healing power will be what undoes the Black Knight.

[FlareKnight]

It's not wild to say, but the tactical approach taken against the Black Knight wasn't great. Feels like with an opponent like that the best thing to do...is just to avoid them as much as you can. Obviously it's not easily done since no one had an ability that could impede or restrain this person. If they could just drop the Black Knight into a really deep hole that probably would be good enough. Best bet might have been to try and have one of them keep that person occupied and the other help wipe out their supporting troops. Then just fall back. Not perfect. But also if it's just this one person marching by themselves that's not the worst thing.

The reflection does seem pretty broken. Though the whole reflection based on will could be a key point. Mental attacks might be valid. If the Black Knight doesn't recognize damage being dealt and doesn't have the will to reflect anything back then it's possible. If it was automated that'd be far more troublesome. But thankfully it isn't. Not that it matters since it doesn't seem like anyone has that kind of magic to lean on. Usato being key is probable. Although I'm not sure how. Since it's activated based on will it's not like they can do some weird "healing will actually cause damage" sort of thing. Although maybe if the Black Knight is some kind of undead it's not impossible... Usato is key regardless. If he doesn't attack there's no reflection. And if the Black Knight's offence can't surpass his healing speed then it's a stalemate.

Tactically...yeah this fight was a mess. They at least grasped the concept of having squads of healers. But not much else is all that praiseworthy. Just kind of throwing people into the mead grinder and hoping for the best.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I would not be surprised if some sort of reversion of Usato's healing power will be what undoes the Black Knight.

He might have to use his healing magic...the wrong way.

[SuitUp]

So kinda like JC, sorry the 'Black King' in Drifters, where he used his healing on a dragon to give him cancer

[SuitUp]

So, if I understood this episode correctly, the armour could only reflect back wounds, so Usato healing said wounds with his punches stopped the armor from reflecting and as a result the punches blunt force bypassed the armor and knocked the girl out, right? So then only Usato and Rose coulda beat that knight lol

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by SuitUp

So, if I understood this episode correctly, the armour could only reflect back wounds, so Usato healing said wounds with his punches stopped the armor from reflecting and as a result the punches blunt force bypassed the armor and knocked the girl out, right? So then only Usato and Rose coulda beat that knight lol

My understanding was that it was either:

(a boring explanation) Healing magic itself interferes with reflect magic , or

(A more interesting one) Even if he was doing damage, he was healing it instantly, so the only thing to reflect once it was activated was his healing magic, making Usato even more powerful against the Black Knight specifically, because he would just be healing himself and prolonging the beatdown. Repeatedly feeling pain of his physical strikes still eventually puts his opponent into shock and they pass out from mental fatigue.

Rose's explanation somewhat contradicted what was happening, so in the end I'm not really sure. Usato feels pain and fatigue from training while healing himself but never passes out from the pain.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by SuitUp

So, if I understood this episode correctly, the armour could only reflect back wounds, so Usato healing said wounds with his punches stopped the armor from reflecting and as a result the punches blunt force bypassed the armor and knocked the girl out, right? So then only Usato and Rose coulda beat that knight lol

Usato is the only one that could defeat her, Rose would have lost, we got a double confirmation through Rose herself and the vision Usato was given where she lost and was dead.

[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Usato is the only one that could defeat her, Rose would have lost, we got a double confirmation through Rose herself and the vision Usato was given where she lost and was dead.

I thought Rose was referring to the fact that she wouldn't have been the one to save the two heroes, and they would have died before she would have come across them on the battlefield.

Usato was trying to undermine his own achievement. He turned the tide of the entire battle and was trying to be humble about it. Rose wouldn't let him talk down about himself.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by ryllharu

My understanding was that it was either:

(a boring explanation) Healing magic itself interferes with reflect magic , or

(A more interesting one) Even if he was doing damage, he was healing it instantly, so the only thing to reflect once it was activated was his healing magic, making Usato even more powerful against the Black Knight specifically, because he would just be healing himself and prolonging the beatdown. Repeatedly feeling pain of his physical strikes still eventually puts his opponent into shock and they pass out from mental fatigue.

Rose's explanation somewhat contradicted what was happening, so in the end I'm not really sure. Usato feels pain and fatigue from training while healing himself but never passes out from the pain.

Black armor quite obviously (at least I would say obviously) reflect damage and Usato didn't inflict any during whole fight, so there was nothing to reflect in first place.

[FlareKnight]

Honestly I have no idea what was going on. Just that Usato won because healing magic. Not sure on the logic here. Are they passing out because of pain overload? Because if he's healing while hitting then they aren't actually passing out because of injury. Ok sure...I guess that works? And I guess they had to fit a title drop in the show somewhere along the way .

Thank goodness the Black Knight is also pretty bad at tactics. Just kept on charging against someone that couldn't be hurt by any of her attacks. Not a great plan . I mean sure if she was using a normal weapon then there's some means of actually winning. But a weapon using the same liquid metal magical properties as the armor isn't going to do any better than attacking with the armor was!

Well guess we'll see what happens with her from here on out. Sadly no cool twist like her being a former Rose squad member. But that's fine. Cute demon girl is still cute.

Usato definitely needs to take in what he did. Because they were 100% dead without him. Rose wouldn't have made it in time. Not even close to being in time. Good for Rose as well that she didn't lose more subordinates.

Guess now all that's left is wrapping things up and having the cast enjoy their victory. Maybe set up the next wave coming at them. Though honestly the Demons basically tossed the war at this point. No reason to throw anything less than everything they had at the battle. If they have anything left it almost doesn't matter. Got one truly troublesome individual off the board in the Black Knight, the Heroes have gained combat experience, and same goes with Usato. The defending side will be even stronger ahead of the next wave.

[Lex79]

It kinda feels like in the older editions of Dungeons and Dragons, where there was lethal damage that can kill you and subdual damage (usually from unharmed attacks, or hitting with the flat of a blade) that only knocks you down for a while, and the Black Knight's power only worked on the former.

[Kakkou]

I think the easiest way to think about it is this: the healing punch is simultaneously the full force of a punch and all that comes with it (pain, blunt damage, etc) and a healing effect that begins healing whatever part it's on but the healing does not take away everything the punch inflicts immediately, it's gradual and takes time like all the healing shown in the show. Also, the healing would stop once Usato draws away his fist so it's not a complete heal either, which is the key to the punch and why Rose taught it to him.

But since it doesn't change the fact it is healing her, the armor does not register the punch as an attack and does nothing, so the fight was basically Black Knight getting a full punch > the wound starts healing enough to not be lethal and the pain is alleviating > Usato's fist is no longer touching her as he moves for the next strike > she hasn't been fully recovered where the punch hit > repeat until it becomes unbearable and knocks her out.

At least that's how I interpreted it.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

He might have to use his healing magic...the wrong way.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[magnuskn]

Kinda disappointed that the Black Knight is some rando demon women we've never seen before.

[magnuskn]

While this series started out very strong, I think it petered off a bit in the second half. The flashback with Rose went on a bit too long, the bit with Rose being this monster woman was played out too much and Usato/Suzune went nowhere. Hell, Kazuto got further with his princess. Also, the Black Knight being some rando demon women we had never seen before and who, of course, turns into a hot submissive waifu for Usato as soon as she was captured also didn't really sit well with me.

7/10 still, above average, but sadly forgettable.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Also, the Black Knight being some rando demon women we had never seen before and who, of course, turns into a hot submissive waifu for Usato as soon as she was captured also didn't really sit well with me.

Why would every character need to be introduced beforehand?

Her intro was the War itself because she would become a recurring character now.