AnimeSuki Forums

Novarain · 2006-02-04, 08:47

Hi all, i was just wondering why Isshin is so secretive. No one except Urahara and Kon knows that he's a death god (and a captain too...) and here's a few chances he had to reveal himself but didn't:

at the start, when Karin was attacked by the hollow looking for Ichigo, why didn't he save Karin? he took an awful risk of waiting for Rukia to transfer powers to Ichigo.

when grand fisher appeared in the graveyard, Ichigo almost died and it was through sheer luck that Ichigo drove it away. and he was supposed to have sworn to kill it...

when Ichigo and Ishida were surrounded by hollows, he instead let Urahara and friends save them...

when Ichigo was getting owned by Ulqouira and Yami, it was Urahara and Yoruichi who saved him.

Does he have some secret agenda or does he not want to reveal himself for some other reason?

Discuss.

Nightengale · 2006-02-04, 08:53

Urahara said that the time he killed GF was the first time in a very long time since he last entered Shinigami mode.

It's likely that something was done to Isshin to assure that he cannot be detected by Soul Society and is 100% pure human capable of intercourse and having children, yet in return, he cannot revert into Shinigami mode.

Who knows. Maybe Kubo just pulled out of his ass in the last moment, leaving plot-holes. Long ongoing series do have such tendecies.

-KarumA- · 2006-02-04, 11:49

maybe they didnt write that far into the story yet, and therefore these things ocurs like you said

mayb they thought of something new, making Isshin a death God in a later plot when they had already published these first chapters i n witch it sounds like he is normal

eLcHaKeTeRo · 2006-02-04, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novarain

Hi all, i was just wondering why Isshin is so secretive. No one except Urahara and Kon knows that he's a death god (and a captain too...) and here's a few chances he had to reveal himself but didn't:

at the start, when Karin was attacked by the hollow looking for Ichigo, why didn't he save Karin? he took an awful risk of waiting for Rukia to transfer powers to Ichigo.

when grand fisher appeared in the graveyard, Ichigo almost died and it was through sheer luck that Ichigo drove it away. and he was supposed to have sworn to kill it...

when Ichigo and Ishida were surrounded by hollows, he instead let Urahara and friends save them...

when Ichigo was getting owned by Ulqouira and Yami, it was Urahara and Yoruichi who saved him.

Does he have some secret agenda or does he not want to reveal himself for some other reason?

Discuss.

Or could it just be that he beleived and new what his son was capable of?

Deathawk · 2006-02-04, 15:26

If u rewatch the frist episode it says that Isshin is out of town on a business trip or some sort confrence. But in the manga he is on the floor with his daughter. I guess they were trying to fill in that plot hole

Edit: Oops i didnt read the manga only thing. Sorry

gangsta905_04 · 2006-02-04, 19:31

its assumed that you watch anime as well as read manga, so no need to be sorry since manga readers are advanced..relative to anime-watchers =)

lemondude · 2006-02-04, 19:58

dude when did this happen??? wat chapter, note that I have read the most recent chapters but due to the way IP read manga and watch anime I might haave missed something here and there.

Komataguri · 2006-02-05, 11:25

Or he didn't have a means to escape from his gigai, if what he was residing it was truely a gigai.

Zu Ra · 2006-02-06, 10:05

Isshin swore off being a shinigami when masaki died and he continues living his life as any oridnary person.Maybe just maybe killing Grandfisher was his last act as shinigami, he owes that to masaki but that doesnt quite answer Graveyard incident.. Maybe he had faith in rukia and ichi combowould do the job at the graveyard.

Bedlam · 2006-02-06, 15:05

or maybe Uruhara told him to back off.

baka manko · 2006-02-07, 00:43

Did he know that GF killed Masaki when he appeard at first?

Myname · 2006-02-07, 01:45

One other thing, in the episode where Chad got attacked by parakeet boy, Isshin says to one of the hospital nurses to tell the director that Isshin called and tons of bed will open up.

Later we find out that Ryuuken is the hospital Director.

fishyfishy2k · 2006-02-07, 02:23

Also if u guys think about it Masaki probably knew Isshin was a shinigami. I mean since they were husband and wife and i dont doubt it. I also think Masaki had like spirit powers too, but like Orihime; its not that strong. And Since Isshin was a shinigami hes already busy so he couldnt protect his family and we know the Ichigo story as well. Seriously though if you would ask me i believe Isshin is really protective of his identity too. And also i wanna know how strong he really is I mean this is a very good opening for some Father and son training haha which i dont doubt will happen

Tempestuousfury · 2006-02-07, 03:20

First off, in either the manga or anime, has reproduction when inside a gigai been discussed?

A friend of mine who frequents this forum told me about an explanation that he had come across on a forum (perhaps this one).
That explanation:

Isshin, in order to hide from SS, or perhaps just lead a normal life (this part is up for interps), decided to hide himself by forsaking his shinigami powers as well as any abilities he had i.e. seeing ghosts, hollows, etc. That would explain his getting trounced in the first chapter, his not knowing what was happening at the graveyard, his inability to physically best his son when waking him up every morning, etc. since he really could not have known what was going on. This extreme immersion into a gigai body might also have facilitated (intentionally or unintentionally) the transfer of his powers to his offspring, namely ichigo (my spin on it).
His regaining his abilities might simply be his breaking a seal on his power, and he did not need to have necessarily seen GF, since ichi-kon was apparently in trouble (this part is a bit fuzzy, since I read it ages ago).

Sorry about the rambling, hopefully I somewhat accurately convey what my friend had read.

Sidenote: did Urahara have anything to do with Isshin's gigai/ abilitiy sealing? And his being unable to get into SS, how exactly was he exiled/ self-exiled? Since he attempted to go through the gate and he was zapped.

eLcHaKeTeRo · 2006-02-07, 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempestuousfury

First off, in either the manga or anime, has reproduction when inside a gigai been discussed?

A friend of mine who frequents this forum told me about an explanation that he had come across on a forum (perhaps this one).
That explanation:

Isshin, in order to hide from SS, or perhaps just lead a normal life (this part is up for interps), decided to hide himself by forsaking his shinigami powers as well as any abilities he had i.e. seeing ghosts, hollows, etc. That would explain his getting trounced in the first chapter, his not knowing what was happening at the graveyard, his inability to physically best his son when waking him up every morning, etc. since he really could not have known what was going on. This extreme immersion into a gigai body might also have facilitated (intentionally or unintentionally) the transfer of his powers to his offspring, namely ichigo (my spin on it).
His regaining his abilities might simply be his breaking a seal on his power, and he did not need to have necessarily seen GF, since ichi-kon was apparently in trouble (this part is a bit fuzzy, since I read it ages ago).

Sorry about the rambling, hopefully I somewhat accurately convey what my friend had read.

Sidenote: did Urahara have anything to do with Isshin's gigai/ abilitiy sealing? And his being unable to get into SS, how exactly was he exiled/ self-exiled? Since he attempted to go through the gate and he was zapped.

about the seal, does anyone remember the tag he puts on Ichigo's shirt? Does anyone have a theory or explanation?

sarrah · 2006-02-07, 05:10

such an interesting topic...could be a plot hole..or could be a clever twist kabu tite wants the readers to think about?

dont completely agree with Tempestuousfury

because urahara specifically created the gigai that sucks all powers out for the purpose of hiding the lil thing that aizen was lookign for (4got what called)
not to make shinigamis into normal people out of pleasure

...also it was making rukia into a normal person and less in sync with her shinigami powers and weakening her greatly, if it was the same for ishin why did he come out all powerful when he killed of the hollow?
doesnt quite fit
oh well i hope kabu tite will explian in the end..im sure the last battle wil be the best where ishida, kurosaki and the gang, their dads, ect. get together and fight!

Novarain · 2006-02-09, 07:08

Cool a lot of interesting theories here...

However i still have one very fundamental question: why did he even leave SS?

The only theory i can think of now is that he was supposed to be "Killed" by Kenpachi but he somehow escaped and with Urahara's help managed to get into the real world to hide.

Hmmm.....................

Deathawk · 2006-02-09, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novarain

Cool a lot of interesting theories here...

However i still have one very fundamental question: why did he even leave SS?

The only theory i can think of now is that he was supposed to be "Killed" by Kenpachi but he somehow escaped and with Urahara's help managed to get into the real world to hide.

Hmmm.....................

And if im not mistaken didnt isshin have something around his wrist that looked like a one of those things that all the vice-captins wore. He could have been the vic-captin of Kenpachi's predicessor and after kenpachi killed him he just halued ass before he got killed for the VC spot.

And yeah i would really like to know y Uhara made the power sealing gigai.

Tempestuousfury · 2006-02-09, 20:55

LOL, we're all dumb*ss*s. :P

Chapter 175 has all the answers.

Reason for Kisuke Urahara's ban: The gigai that Kisuke Urahara made had not spirit particles, and was not detectable by SS. Also, this gigai breaks down the spiritual energy of the shinigami inside the gigai, eventually robbing them of all their powers, making them 100% human. I am 100% sure that Rukia had this gigai, though Isshin might have also had it, which is unlikely since he became a shinigami. However... there are multiple possibilities:

1.) Not sure if normal gigais can procreate, but this gigai was 100% matter, no spiritual particles, so it is more than possible to have children with it.
2.) Isshin had an imperfect prototype of the same gigai, which allowed him to turn into a shinigami, and which might have facilitated the transfer of shinigami powers to his son.
3.) Isshin had a normal gigai, and it could reproduce and still allow his son to obtain shinigami powers.

Hmm.... I had not noticed a vice captain emblem... couldn't he have been Urahara's fukutaichou? Since I don't think Yoruichi was his fukutaichou, though I might have missed this.
Also, does Isshin's uniform denote his being in 11th squad? If so, couldn't Urahara have been the captain who faked his death?

Zu Ra · 2006-02-09, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempestuousfury

LOL, we're all dumb*ss*s. :P

Chapter 175 has all the answers.

Reason for Kisuke Urahara's ban: The gigai that Kisuke Urahara made had not spirit particles, and was not detectable by SS. Also, this gigai breaks down the spiritual energy of the shinigami inside the gigai, eventually robbing them of all their powers, making them 100% human. I am 100% sure that Rukia had this gigai, though Isshin might have also had it, which is unlikely since he became a shinigami. However... there are multiple possibilities:

1.) Not sure if normal gigais can procreate, but this gigai was 100% matter, no spiritual particles, so it is more than possible to have children with it.
2.) Isshin had an imperfect prototype of the same gigai, which allowed him to turn into a shinigami, and which might have facilitated the transfer of shinigami powers to his son.
3.) Isshin had a normal gigai, and it could reproduce and still allow his son to obtain shinigami powers.

Hmm.... I had not noticed a vice captain emblem... couldn't he have been Urahara's fukutaichou? Since I don't think Yoruichi was his fukutaichou, though I might have missed this.
Also, does Isshin's uniform denote his being in 11th squad? If so, couldn't Urahara have been the captain who faked his death?

What about yoruichi's and Urahara's gigai ,are they protototpes also ?

(has an Unhealthy obcession with Urahara and very natural obcession with Yoruichi ,so just curious) o_o

2006-02-04, 08:47	Link #1
Novarain Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Why is he so secretive??? (manga only pls...) Hi all, i was just wondering why Isshin is so secretive. No one except Urahara and Kon knows that he's a death god (and a captain too...) and here's a few chances he had to reveal himself but didn't: at the start, when Karin was attacked by the hollow looking for Ichigo, why didn't he save Karin? he took an awful risk of waiting for Rukia to transfer powers to Ichigo. when grand fisher appeared in the graveyard, Ichigo almost died and it was through sheer luck that Ichigo drove it away. and he was supposed to have sworn to kill it... when Ichigo and Ishida were surrounded by hollows, he instead let Urahara and friends save them... when Ichigo was getting owned by Ulqouira and Yami, it was Urahara and Yoruichi who saved him. Does he have some secret agenda or does he not want to reveal himself for some other reason? Discuss.

2006-02-04, 08:53	Link #2
Nightengale ~Night of Gales~ Author Join Date: Dec 2005	Urahara said that the time he killed GF was the first time in a very long time since he last entered Shinigami mode. It's likely that something was done to Isshin to assure that he cannot be detected by Soul Society and is 100% pure human capable of intercourse and having children, yet in return, he cannot revert into Shinigami mode. Who knows. Maybe Kubo just pulled out of his ass in the last moment, leaving plot-holes. Long ongoing series do have such tendecies.

2006-02-04, 11:49	Link #3
-KarumA- (｡☉౪ ⊙｡) Author Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: In Maya world, where all is 3D and everything crashes Age: 36	maybe they didnt write that far into the story yet, and therefore these things ocurs like you said mayb they thought of something new, making Isshin a death God in a later plot when they had already published these first chapters i n witch it sounds like he is normal

2006-02-04, 15:26	Link #5
Deathawk Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006	If u rewatch the frist episode it says that Isshin is out of town on a business trip or some sort confrence. But in the manga he is on the floor with his daughter. I guess they were trying to fill in that plot hole Edit: Oops i didnt read the manga only thing. Sorry

2006-02-04, 19:31	Link #6
gangsta905_04 AnimeSuki's #1 criminal Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 35	its assumed that you watch anime as well as read manga, so no need to be sorry since manga readers are advanced..relative to anime-watchers =)

2006-02-04, 19:58	Link #7
lemondude "super lemon" Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Canada, BC, vancouver Age: 34	dude when did this happen??? wat chapter, note that I have read the most recent chapters but due to the way IP read manga and watch anime I might haave missed something here and there.

2006-02-05, 11:25	Link #8
Komataguri Reverend K-Rist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: America's Wang. Age: 40	Or he didn't have a means to escape from his gigai, if what he was residing it was truely a gigai.

2006-02-06, 10:05	Link #9
Zu Ra ✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mortuary : D	Isshin swore off being a shinigami when masaki died and he continues living his life as any oridnary person.Maybe just maybe killing Grandfisher was his last act as shinigami, he owes that to masaki but that doesnt quite answer Graveyard incident.. Maybe he had faith in rukia and ichi combowould do the job at the graveyard.

2006-02-06, 15:05	Link #10
Bedlam Delphic Babel Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In my mind Age: 38	or maybe Uruhara told him to back off.

2006-02-07, 00:43	Link #11
baka manko Hmm... Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Omaha Age: 38	Did he know that GF killed Masaki when he appeard at first?

2006-02-07, 01:45	Link #12
Myname Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006	One other thing, in the episode where Chad got attacked by parakeet boy, Isshin says to one of the hospital nurses to tell the director that Isshin called and tons of bed will open up. Later we find out that Ryuuken is the hospital Director.

2006-02-07, 02:23	Link #13
fishyfishy2k Lifes a B*tch Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: California	Also if u guys think about it Masaki probably knew Isshin was a shinigami. I mean since they were husband and wife and i dont doubt it. I also think Masaki had like spirit powers too, but like Orihime; its not that strong. And Since Isshin was a shinigami hes already busy so he couldnt protect his family and we know the Ichigo story as well. Seriously though if you would ask me i believe Isshin is really protective of his identity too. And also i wanna know how strong he really is I mean this is a very good opening for some Father and son training haha which i dont doubt will happen

2006-02-07, 03:20	Link #14
Tempestuousfury Continually amazed Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Illinois Age: 36	First off, in either the manga or anime, has reproduction when inside a gigai been discussed? A friend of mine who frequents this forum told me about an explanation that he had come across on a forum (perhaps this one). That explanation: Isshin, in order to hide from SS, or perhaps just lead a normal life (this part is up for interps), decided to hide himself by forsaking his shinigami powers as well as any abilities he had i.e. seeing ghosts, hollows, etc. That would explain his getting trounced in the first chapter, his not knowing what was happening at the graveyard, his inability to physically best his son when waking him up every morning, etc. since he really could not have known what was going on. This extreme immersion into a gigai body might also have facilitated (intentionally or unintentionally) the transfer of his powers to his offspring, namely ichigo (my spin on it). His regaining his abilities might simply be his breaking a seal on his power, and he did not need to have necessarily seen GF, since ichi-kon was apparently in trouble (this part is a bit fuzzy, since I read it ages ago). Sorry about the rambling, hopefully I somewhat accurately convey what my friend had read. Sidenote: did Urahara have anything to do with Isshin's gigai/ abilitiy sealing? And his being unable to get into SS, how exactly was he exiled/ self-exiled? Since he attempted to go through the gate and he was zapped.

2006-02-07, 05:10	Link #16
sarrah tikki Join Date: Dec 2005	such an interesting topic...could be a plot hole..or could be a clever twist kabu tite wants the readers to think about? dont completely agree with Tempestuousfury because urahara specifically created the gigai that sucks all powers out for the purpose of hiding the lil thing that aizen was lookign for (4got what called) not to make shinigamis into normal people out of pleasure ...also it was making rukia into a normal person and less in sync with her shinigami powers and weakening her greatly, if it was the same for ishin why did he come out all powerful when he killed of the hollow? doesnt quite fit oh well i hope kabu tite will explian in the end..im sure the last battle wil be the best where ishida, kurosaki and the gang, their dads, ect. get together and fight!

2006-02-09, 07:08	Link #17
Novarain Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Cool a lot of interesting theories here... However i still have one very fundamental question: why did he even leave SS? The only theory i can think of now is that he was supposed to be "Killed" by Kenpachi but he somehow escaped and with Urahara's help managed to get into the real world to hide. Hmmm.....................

2006-02-09, 20:55	Link #19
Tempestuousfury Continually amazed Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Illinois Age: 36	LOL, we're all dumbsss. :P Chapter 175 has all the answers. Reason for Kisuke Urahara's ban: The gigai that Kisuke Urahara made had not spirit particles, and was not detectable by SS. Also, this gigai breaks down the spiritual energy of the shinigami inside the gigai, eventually robbing them of all their powers, making them 100% human. I am 100% sure that Rukia had this gigai, though Isshin might have also had it, which is unlikely since he became a shinigami. However... there are multiple possibilities: 1.) Not sure if normal gigais can procreate, but this gigai was 100% matter, no spiritual particles, so it is more than possible to have children with it. 2.) Isshin had an imperfect prototype of the same gigai, which allowed him to turn into a shinigami, and which might have facilitated the transfer of shinigami powers to his son. 3.) Isshin had a normal gigai, and it could reproduce and still allow his son to obtain shinigami powers. Hmm.... I had not noticed a vice captain emblem... couldn't he have been Urahara's fukutaichou? Since I don't think Yoruichi was his fukutaichou, though I might have missed this. Also, does Isshin's uniform denote his being in 11th squad? If so, couldn't Urahara have been the captain who faked his death?