[spoilers] tousen's strength?

[yamato_D]

well i'm sure most bleach fans remember the fight between tousen and zaraki kenpachi in soul society. you guys probably also remember that zaraki kicked tousen's ass and was ready for more. HOWEVER, in the recent manga arc, tousen made a brief appearance by interupting the fight between ichigo and grimjaw. afterwards the blind guy moved so fast that he managed to cut and destroy grimjaw's left arm (and implied that he could've killed him). was tousen this freakin' strong to begin with, or has he gained some super powers from aizen?

[Thewanderer]

Are you implying that Kenpachi is weak? Tosen was always that strong. Kenpachi's not only stronger in spirit energy(despite not even having a Shikai), but he's as psycho as any hollow would be.

[Mr. DJ]

Tousen has no reason to hold back afaik, he does what needs to be done for absolute justice.

I have to watch that episode again w/ Tousen and Kenpachi, he probably could of beaten him...but then again...(shrugs) then again again...Tousen probably can't skill Kenpachi straight up...probably has to weaken him.

[Varis]

tousen....

his strength and agility compare unfavorable to an old cripple in a tar pit... When he uses his black circus tent bankai I fully expect him to pull off a mime show...

As you can tell I am in awe of Tousen. A true champion of justice.

[meh]

I'm a little baffled too. I got the impression that Tousen went all-out in the Zaraki, and could not win a fight where he had overwhelming advantage in his bankai. Yet Zaraki's power at the time is at best equal to Ichigo with bankai learnt. So if Grimmjaw is more powerful than Ichigo, then it makes no sense for Tousen to be able to beat him so easily... Or maybe it's because Tousen's his master or something?

[MrHahn]

Originally Posted by meh

I'm a little baffled too. I got the impression that Tousen went all-out in the Zaraki, and could not win a fight where he had overwhelming advantage in his bankai. Yet Zaraki's power at the time is at best equal to Ichigo with bankai learnt. So if Grimmjaw is more powerful than Ichigo, then it makes no sense for Tousen to be able to beat him so easily... Or maybe it's because Tousen's his master or something?

I'm very tempted to take this solution. Grimmjow was about to start fighitng Tousen before Aizen called him off. Maybe the threat of Aizen going nuts on him put him off.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by meh

I'm a little baffled too. I got the impression that Tousen went all-out in the Zaraki, and could not win a fight where he had overwhelming advantage in his bankai. Yet Zaraki's power at the time is at best equal to Ichigo with bankai learnt. So if Grimmjaw is more powerful than Ichigo, then it makes no sense for Tousen to be able to beat him so easily... Or maybe it's because Tousen's his master or something?

Raw power isn't everything. This should be evident because of Aizen's completely overpowered Shikai, but Tosen's COMPLETE immunity to it.

Take Kenpachi, who beat Tosen because he's simply insane(plus the durable thing). Tosen's pretty skilled tho, and his Bankai would've worked far better on most other opponents. Also, I haven't read the manga, but I've heard that even though Grimmjaw is strong, he's not skilled enough.

Those should be factored in as well.

[RoKru]

Tousen is one of Aizen's best henchmen with Ichimaru right?
Surely they get like a Vizard power or something that made them super strong
and Grimmjow cant kill this guy even though Tousen pissed him off by cutting his arm

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by MrHahn

I'm very tempted to take this solution. Grimmjow was about to start fighitng Tousen before Aizen called him off. Maybe the threat of Aizen going nuts on him put him off.

Agreed.

The situation seemed quite simple. A commanding officer all of a sudden turns around and slices your arm with another commanding officer who you know is insanely strong around. Grimjaw probably did not anticipate an attack coming and probably cannot compete against Aizen. I'm sure if Grimjaw wanted to, he would've wiped the floor with Tousen given his strength.

Of course, this does assume that Tousen hasn't been given the hollow treatment yet, which I suspect has not happened yet.

EPYON

[yamato_D]

yeah i'm also convinced that tousen was doing his best at defeating kenpachi. he's one of those annoying, obsessed-with-justice characters. i think he really saw zaraki kenpachi as a dangerous criminal of sorts.
the whole aizen watching while blind guy cuts your arm off seems logical too. i just hate how unclear everyone's power levels are in bleach. at one point ichigo can take out three vice-captains with simple punches, but then gets his ass beat by some of aizens thugs. oh well, it's still a great series.

[Thewanderer]

Originally Posted by yamato_D

yeah i'm also convinced that tousen was doing his best at defeating kenpachi. he's one of those annoying, obsessed-with-justice characters. i think he really saw zaraki kenpachi as a dangerous criminal of sorts.
the whole aizen watching while blind guy cuts your arm off seems logical too. i just hate how unclear everyone's power levels are in bleach. at one point ichigo can take out three vice-captains with simple punches, but then gets his ass beat by some of aizens thugs. oh well, it's still a great series.

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Raw power isn't everything. This should be evident because of Aizen's completely overpowered Shikai, but Tosen's COMPLETE immunity to it.

Take Kenpachi, who beat Tosen because he's simply insane(plus the durable thing). Tosen's pretty skilled tho, and his Bankai would've worked far better on most other opponents. Also, I haven't read the manga, but I've heard that even though Grimmjaw is strong, he's not skilled enough.

Those should be factored in as well.

*filler text*

[sniperz]

if they have set lvl 1 to lv100 based on the series. its easier for us to know their power lvl. yea.. perhaps someday kubo will state it.

[meh]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

Raw power isn't everything. This should be evident because of Aizen's completely overpowered Shikai, but Tosen's COMPLETE immunity to it.

Take Kenpachi, who beat Tosen because he's simply insane(plus the durable thing). Tosen's pretty skilled tho, and his Bankai would've worked far better on most other opponents. Also, I haven't read the manga, but I've heard that even though Grimmjaw is strong, he's not skilled enough.

Those should be factored in as well.

Actually, there are a lot of similarities between Grimmjaw and Zaraki, a major reason why Tosen hates him and wanted to execute him. Maybe he is afraid of Tosen's bankai... maybe not. But let's put it this way. Grimmjaw was capable of destroying Ichigo without even releasing his zanpakuto. It's quite hard to comprehend that his full fighting ability is lesser to Tosen.

[gangsta905_04]

Tousen is strong. Kenpachi is stronger. Ichigo is STRONGEST XD OWNAGE

[yuchan]

Given the properties of Tousens bankai, he could've very easily killed Kenpachi in 1 hit by stabbing his heart or lopping his head off. But he was being a sanctimonius jackass and ended up getting his ass kicked. Like many other shonen titles, tousen is a victim of the bad guy who was stronger but talked to much and got his ass kicked syndrome.

[NoSanninWa]

Well if it makes you feel better, Ichigo did the same thing when he didn't kill Byakuya the first time he got the jump on him. (Ichigo had his sword right against Byakuya throat, but he let him go just so that he could taunt him some more. Ichigo never managed that again.)

This show is an equal opportunity screwup.

[Scep]

Ichigo still won. Well he could have saved his strength for Aizen, but....

I get the feeling that tousen won with the element of surprise. It appears to me that grimm was more than ready to kill tousen in anger, but apparently it did not happen because he knew aizen was there.

[Zek]

Originally Posted by epyon96

Agreed.

The situation seemed quite simple. A commanding officer all of a sudden turns around and slices your arm with another commanding officer who you know is insanely strong around. Grimjaw probably did not anticipate an attack coming and probably cannot compete against Aizen. I'm sure if Grimjaw wanted to, he would've wiped the floor with Tousen given his strength.

Of course, this does assume that Tousen hasn't been given the hollow treatment yet, which I suspect has not happened yet.

EPYON

Tousen would make a pretty crappy commanding officer if he were weaker than the #6 Espada unreleased. It's one thing to be caught offguard(which he shouldn't have been after all of Tousen's punishment talk), but the guy shunpo'd to Grimmjow's side before he could even react and then sliced off the arm that Ichigo's Bankai couldn't scratch. I'd say that's more than just a surprise attack.

[Kurapica]

Originally Posted by Zek

Tousen would make a pretty crappy commanding officer if he were weaker than the #6 Espada unreleased. It's one thing to be caught offguard(which he shouldn't have been after all of Tousen's punishment talk), but the guy shunpo'd to Grimmjow's side before he could even react and then sliced off the arm that Ichigo's Bankai couldn't scratch. I'd say that's more than just a surprise attack.

I agree completely. It seems to me that Tousen was just really that strong, altough his match with Kenpachi doesn't work in his favor.

[jzmagic]

its completely messed up

grim jow > ichigo > kenpachi > tousen > grim jow

maybe aizen tousen and gin all received powerups we dont know about yet.