Japan Earthquake and Tsunami (March 11, 2011)

[WanderingKnight]

And there it is, the containment vessel has failed. Queue massive radiation leakage.

[Afternoon Tea]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

That's one powerful image...

very, all of these pictures of the carnage just breaks my heart. I feel like I need to help in some way like go there and do something, but i fell so helpless at my age.. I would love to volunteer for the red cross and go there to help in kind of way

[solomon]

If I heard correctly some of the commentators are a little annoyed by the information at the TEPCO press conference. I think I heard an official say "This is not a place to express opinions, this a place to get the facts" or something like that.

[Decagon]

I'm watching the live press conference with the plant officials about reactor 2--Apologizing in response to questions seems rather equivocal to saying "no comment"?

[Random32]

Originally Posted by Green²

Reactors 1, 2, & 3 at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant have been flooded with sea water to maintain coolant levels. They are now considered no longer usable.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/...5531300035676/

that sucks... are 4-6 coming back online anytime soon, or are they stuck with significantly reduced power capacity for a long time?

btw, Containment Vessel? Has the containment building failed or the reactor vessel? Source?

[WanderingKnight]

Wow, that's nifty of you NHK, cutting the press conference in the middle of a difficult question...

[konart]

Originally Posted by Random32

that sucks... are 4-6 coming back online anytime soon, or are they stuck with significantly reduced power capacity for a long time?

btw, Containment Vessel? Has the containment building failed or the reactor vessel? Source?

You can follow the news here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

And there it is, the containment vessel has failed. Queue massive radiation leakage.

Uhm depends. If I was nitpicking, I would say the suppression pool is outside the inner reactor containment.

But since we are talking about a BWR, that means the suppression pool is a structural part of the inner cooling cycle... I say you are half way right. It means there is even more radiation coming from the inner coolant now, since more of it is exposed (more so than in the venting incidents) to the outer containment (which was opened to release the oxyhydrogen ( I read this somewhere in this thread) that made the outer containment of block 1 and 3 go bust).

Whats more concerning to me, they cannot use the inner cooling cycle now. I hope they already injected the boron in the core of reactor of block 2 (as they did in block 1 and 3). Then they can just close the valves from and to the reactor.

[solomon]

NHK commentators says its wierd that theres no new info, but they believe the fact that most workers at the plant have been told to retreat suggest that things are getting dicey. (Listening to Radio 1)

[Random32]

Originally Posted by konart

You can follow the news here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

And there it is, the containment vessel has failed. Queue massive radiation leakage.

Another explosion has rocked the Fukushima 1 power plant damaged by Friday's huge earthquake but the reactors are said to be still intact

1. BBC is a fairly good source. I should use that... /feels stupid
2. No Massive Radiation Leakage. Reactors are still intact. Though, the cooling loop inside the reactor seems dead, so its harder to keep things under control probably.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Random32

1. BBC is a fairly good source. I should use that... /feels stupid
2. No Massive Radiation Leakage. Reactors are still intact. Though, the cooling loop inside the reactor seems dead, so its harder to keep things under control probably.

Your source of info?

[Ithekro]

Sounds like a case of human error caused by them focusing on the other two reactors and neglecting the remaining one.

However that is just an impression I am getting at this time.

I have some faith in the design of they reactor keeping the worst of it from spreading for any long term ratiation poisoning of the region.

[WanderingKnight]

I have some faith in the design of they reactor keeping the worst of it from spreading for any long term ratiation poisoning of the region.

I don't. The lobbying machine has been spreading lies about the design of the Fukushima reactor's containment vessel.

Uhm depends. If I was nitpicking, I would say the suppression pool is outside the inner reactor containment.

They gave almost no info about it. What would cause it to blow up? Wouldn't the melting core cause an explosion if it suddenly fell on the water from a leak in the containment vessel?

PS: I am not an anti-nuke bigot. I was actually TRUSTING the lobbying machine, even though I know they say what they say because they are invested in the matter. But the way things have developed has changed my opinion deeply.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Wow, that's nifty of you NHK, cutting the press conference in the middle of a difficult question...

Nico is streaming it:
http://live.nicovideo.jp/

[Random32]

Originally Posted by konart

Your source of info?

Not sure what you are asking, so I'll answer both most likely questions

reactors are said to be still intact

On the page you provided.

My source prior was random forum threads and emails with friends in Japan

Sounds like a case of human error caused by them focusing on the other two reactors and neglecting the remaining one.

However that is just an impression I am getting at this time.

I have some faith in the design of they reactor keeping the worst of it from spreading for any long term ratiation poisoning of the region.

I would agree with human error, I think somewhere on this thread, someone said stuff started going wrong in Unit 2 when they ran out of diesel for the back up generator...

[WanderingKnight]

According to BBC:

0005: Radioactive materials are feared to be leaking at Fukushima, Kyodo reports quoting a safety agency.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Random32

Not sure what you are asking, so I'll answer both most likely questions

Sorry, must be too sleepy(it's 3a.m. here). I've just misread you post -_-'

/off to bed

Before I'm off:

reactors are said to be still intact

^ Old news, from Saturday, or Sunday. They have Key points out off date for some reason. All the Live news on the page I provided are on the left sidebar

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

...
They gave almost no info about it. What would cause it to blow up? Wouldn't the melting core cause an explosion if it suddenly fell on the water from a leak in the containment vessel?
...

No, the culprit is most likely the same as in the blown up outer containments of block 1 and 3. When hydrogen is in the suppression pool and there was extensive venting (maybe a malfunction) of the inner cooling cycle (afaik it ran almost dry - so the inner pressure must have been really low)...and you refill it with something from outside (seawater), then you also bring a certain amount of O2 into the system. This together with the H2 gives oxyhydrogen... and oxyhydrogen possibly exploded somewhere near the suppression pool (its not exactly meant to deal with the pressure of an explosion).

I am still trying to figure something out though. In german BWRs there are catalytic recombinators that (in theory) recombine the H2 with the O2 in a catalytic way, should both agents be inside the system. Now I wonder if these were not installed in Fukushima, or if they simply failed. In that case I can deduct for the german BWRs that the catalytic recombinators are just a safety gimmick that most likely has no real purpose (doesn't really add to the safety).

[Random32]

Originally Posted by konart

Sorry, must be too sleepy(it's 3a.m. here). I've just misread you post -_-'

/off to bed

Before I'm off:



^ Old news, from Saturday, or Sunday. They have Key points out off date for some reason. All the Live news on the page I provided are on the left sidebar

They leave the first thing people look at out of date. Uggh.

Originally Posted by Jinto

No, the culprit is most likely the same as in the blown up outer containments of block 1 and 3. When hydrogen is in the suppression pool and there was extensive venting (maybe a malfunction) of the inner cooling cycle (afaik it ran almost dry - so the inner pressure must have been really low)...and you refill it with something from outside (seawater), then you also bring a certain amount of O2 into the system. This together with the H2 gives oxyhydrogen... and oxyhydrogen possibly exploded somewhere near the suppression pool (its not exactly meant to deal with the pressure of an explosion).

I am still trying to figure something out though. In german BWRs there are catalytic recombinators that (in theory) recombine the H2 with the O2 in a catalytic way, should both agents be inside the system. Now I wonder if these were not installed in Fukushima, or if they simply failed. In that case I can deduct for the german BWRs that the catalytic recombinators are just a safety gimmick that most likely has no real purpose (doesn't really add to the safety).

How recent are these German BWRs you speak of. Fukushima Daiichi Units 1-3 were all built in the 70's.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Random32

How recent are these German BWRs you speak of. Fukushima Daiichi Units 1-3 were all built in the 70's.

I think age is not necessarily an issue, since these recombinators can be retrofitted. Though I think they were introduced in the generation III BWRs.