AnimeSuki Forums

solomon · 2011-03-14, 19:33

For Japanese literate, I recommend Radio 1 as they have been focusing on the ToDen press conferences in a tad more detail. Er they were at any rate.

Ithekro · 2011-03-14, 20:20

The three Fukushima reators in question are definately Generation II BWRs built in the late 60s and early 70s. (I-1 being a BWR-3 and I-2 and I-3 being BWR-4 for what it is worth). I don't think they have been refitted since I-1 was going originally going to be decommissioned this year (though they were going to give it a ten year extension it seems, but not anymore considering it is effectively done now). The other two would have been shutdown in 2014 and 2016. The first two reactors were built by General Electric, the third by Toshiba...all designed by General Electric using data from an Earthquake that took place during 1952 in Kern County, California (which was a 7.3 quake). They all survived the 1978 Miyami Earthquake with no damage. That was a 7.7 quake. However that earthquake's tsumani was relatively weak, the waves not even going as high as a meter.

solomon · 2011-03-14, 21:11

Fire at No. 4 according to Chief Edano, but the rods themselves arent believed to be aflame.

killer3000ad · 2011-03-14, 21:15

Third blast at Fukushima Daiichi plant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12740843

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-14, 21:25

They've more or less confirmed a containment vessel breach at one of the reactors. So the question is now, China syndrome or not? The worst case scenario is getting closer and closer.

bayoab · 2011-03-14, 21:37

FLASH - French embassy in Tokyo says weak radioactive contamination could reach Tokyo in 10 hrs from stricken nuclear plant [Reuters]

Tyabann · 2011-03-14, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

The worst case scenario is getting closer and closer.

...Which is, in your opinion?

You seem to think that everyone in the damn country is going to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solomon

Fire at No. 4 according to Chief Edano, but the rods themselves arent believed to be aflame.

I thought Number 4 was shut down.

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-14, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...Which is, in your opinion?

You seem to think that everyone in the damn country is going to die.

What? When did I say such a thing?

Worst case scenario is a China syndrome where the water below the ground gets contaminated with the molten core.

I don't believe this is going to kill everyone and their dog in Japan, and I'm not stupid enough to suggest a new Chernobyl, but if you don't think this is some serious shit that will have lasting consequences in at the very least the Fukushima region then you're pretty damn stupid.

PS: And I am angry because I do actually like Japan a lot. I've traveled there and I have the intention of returning many times in my life. My best friend's brother lives there. So I'm pretty fucking pissed right now.

Qikz · 2011-03-14, 21:52

I typed this out from NHK's translation and I did it quickly.

At the time of the quake, number 4 was out of action and their was no fuel rods in the reactor but their was still used material inside the reactors. As it heated, it created hydrogen which caused some explosions. Reactor 4 is currently burning.

In the cases of 1 and 3. The outer buildings were blown off but the reactor was fine. Debris fell into Reactor 4 leading to bigger problems. Hydrogen is being generated so they believe radioactive substances are also being released. Reactor 4 is no longer held inside the building. They're doing their best to put out the fire and cool down the reactor still to stop more leaking. An explosion was heard at Reactor 2 this morning (we already know), after that time a hole was observed in reactor 2. So we've been saying that it was very unlikely a hydrogen explosion would happen at reactor 2. This happened when he was holding a press conference this morning.

The part of the supression chamber seems to have caused the sound of the blast and a little bit of a radioactive substance is said to be released. It's said a smoke like stream can be seen coming from the reactor 2 building, but probably the damage has been found from the hydrogen and the steam could be hydrogen. So I am informing you of what we have heard before these meetings. 1-2-3 water cooling is continuing and so far for all 3 reactors water cooling is continiung properly and the rods seem to be cooled, we now need to deal with how to keep them cool and deal with the fire at 4.

As to do with the radioactive gases/material and the monitor done this morning, between reactor 2-3 a 400milli cverd and 4 was 100milli. Rather they were milli cvert which is bigger than the micro cverts shown so far. Now we're looking at levels that can damage human health. However, these are figures taken from the area closer to the reactor where we believe the gases to be a problem. So please take this calmly and as from 6AM the remaining staff have evacuated the plant other than the 50 who are dealing with the cooling of the plant. We have heard water injection is continiuning smoothly. The situation I'm recording is a very high concern and we are sorry to reporting this. In preparing for this we asked you to evacuate, now that we say these developments from 20-30 please stay inside and do not go outside.

When staying inside, keep windows shut and do not use ventalation equiptments and if you hang your laundry keep it indoors. The further away you move from the power plants, the radiation will become lower. So beyond 20km radius the radiation levels will be reduce greatly and the risk to humans will be minimal, but of course the radiation spread depends on windspeed and direction.

Please stay indoors and do your best not to be exposed to radiation. I am holding this conference after the cabinet meeting where we have talked about ordinary measures and discussed what we have learned already. The whole cabinet is getting together to deal with this situation and also we have talked about rescue operations and assistance that are required for the earthquake survivors. I wish to end my comment.

QUESTIONS

How do you see the damage to the metropoliton areas?

The water injections are going well and if you have any questions please contact TEPCO, the pressure has been stabilised and we have done our best to maintain this pressure.

You mentioned the fire in reactor 4, is the fire more serious than reactor 2?

Well I mentioned it first as it occured earliar. That's why I talked about 4 first.

Not suppresion chamber, but is there damage done to the vessel of reactor 2?

I've got to report there is a high probability that some portion of the vessel was damaged.

1-2-3 reactors

Radiation levels from these reactors have very little possibility of doing harm to human health. Just like other reactors 4 is emmiting heat, that's why the substance is likely to be released from the vessel. The fire from episode 4 is not one that will likely emmit hazardous materials but we want to put the fire out as quick as possible.

Those in 30KM radius are told to stay indoors?

They say people should be evacuated from that area, but the final decision was made by the primeminister, we're currently working on what's the safest choice and we're analysing figures and asking experts on what we should do, which is why you should stay indoors. Due to current readings we decided to ask the people in 20KM radius and 30KM to stay inside based on these opinions.

From 1-3-4 reactors the radiation readings are high, is there any link to 2?

We think that it could be a possibility that the explosion could have been linked to 2, but 1-2-3 water cooling is going well and after 2's explosion we didn't see any increase in radiation levels. At 4 we are working and doing anything we can to put the fire out, but the leftover fuel will not catch fire. Only the building but we don't want the temperature to go up as heat could cause more radioactive material from being released.

Is there any possibility of radiation leaks down to this fire?

There's a small possibility stuff could have been release, but I would like TEPCO to give the figures. The current high are from Reactor 4 fire, reactor 2 has not contributed greatly in the leap in radiation.

At Onagawa too, there are radiation levels but they will not damage humans so that is why we are not evacuating them, only at fukushima.

---

For people from 20-30km radius I will read out the city names (some towns that overlap with the outside area so I would like to read out towns or muncipalities that will

Tamuramachi
Minamimachi
Hironomachi
Narahamachi
Tomoyoka
Kawauchi
Okuma
Futaba
Namia
Katsurou
Iidatte
Iiwakishi

How long will it take to estinguish the fire?

On site, the people in charge are trying to take corrective actions as quickly as possible.

Are you going to continue the injection of water after the extinguishing the fire?

Yes, thankyou very much for your questions.

---

I did it for another forum but thought I'd post it here too. I'm really sorry if it reads badly I just wanted to type it down and I was in a rush to keep up. I missed out little bits of information, but I hope it's of help.

Tyabann · 2011-03-14, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

PS: And I am angry because I do actually like Japan a lot. I've traveled there and I have the intention of returning many times in my life. So I'm pretty fucking pissed right now.

I'm pretty fucking angry right now too and I think you need to calm down. Your comments are just making it worse.

solomon · 2011-03-14, 21:56

Listening to local NPR radio talk show,

commentator makes interesting observation about political stakes, he says that if the DPJ botch the rescue effort in the eyes of the people, it will pummel them politcally and people will fly back to the LDP.

What do Japanese members think? Neither party seems to vary much in policy or approach to politics so I think it's silly.

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-14, 21:56

Quote:

Just like other reactors 4 is emmiting heat

What the hell. Wasn't it confirmed that 4-5-6 were down for maintenance at the moment the tsunami struck? Why shouldn't it be cooled off?

Genuine question here. Not trying to be spurious.

bayoab · 2011-03-14, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

What the hell. Wasn't it confirmed that 4-5-6 were down for maintenance at the moment the tsunami struck? Why shouldn't it be cooled off?

Genuine question here. Not trying to be spurious.

From what I'm gathering from fark, the state of 4 was actually "Idle", not "Shut down" since it still had spent fuel in it. (Link)

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-14, 22:06

Huh. So much for information accuracy.

sa547 · 2011-03-14, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayoab

FLASH - French embassy in Tokyo says weak radioactive contamination could reach Tokyo in 10 hrs from stricken nuclear plant [Reuters]

I wonder where the French embassy is getting their info, as it seems that news about Fukushima is becoming... really sketchy.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2011-03-14, 22:47

Seriously we need some sort of official twitter update concerning the powerplants. The news media from multiple sources are quoting different information based on different times, and it is really one big mess.

I just don't know what to believe any more.

Ithekro · 2011-03-14, 22:51

Or interpreted quickly based on what would sound like the best story.

WanderingKnight · 2011-03-14, 22:54

The only certain thing we have is what the PM said. And it didn't sound good at all.

bayoab · 2011-03-14, 23:01

This is from fark:

Quote:

At approximately 0700 local (Japan) time, 15 March 2011, sensitive instrumentation on USS GEORGE WASHINGTON pier-side in Yokosuka, detected low levels of radioactivity from the Fukushima Dai-Ichi Nuclear Power Plant. While there is no danger to the public, [....]

These measures are strictly precautionary in nature. We do not expect that any United States Federal radiation exposure limits will be exceeded even if no precautionary measures are taken. We are continuing to analyze the situation and will update you as we learn more.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-03-14, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayoab

From what I'm gathering from fark, the state of 4 was actually "Idle", not "Shut down" since it still had spent fuel in it. (Link)

Exactly. The reactor was shut down, but spent fuel is still capable of generating radiation and will heat up if not cooled (as appears to be what happened). It's not capable of generating either the heat or radiation of the three reactors that were active when the quake hit, but you still don't want the building on fire and radiation leaking. I still see #2 as by far the biggest risk here - if there really is a hole in the containment vessel that not only means more radiation, but more difficulty in cooling the reactor.

It's also worth mentioning that the more time passes, the less danger there is of catastrophic radiation leaks and that means the next two days are critical. The boric acid will have killed the fission reactions in the three active reactors and they do lose their ability to produce heat and radiation as they decay (which is sort of where we are with #4).

I have a friend who works for the federal government in a nuclear oversight role for DOE. He seems inclined to believe there are no realistic "worst case scenarios" here that could cause a real health risk for Tokyo or points further South and West. He's just one guy, of course, though he's a damn smart one.

2011-03-14, 20:20	Link #982
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The three Fukushima reators in question are definately Generation II BWRs built in the late 60s and early 70s. (I-1 being a BWR-3 and I-2 and I-3 being BWR-4 for what it is worth). I don't think they have been refitted since I-1 was going originally going to be decommissioned this year (though they were going to give it a ten year extension it seems, but not anymore considering it is effectively done now). The other two would have been shutdown in 2014 and 2016. The first two reactors were built by General Electric, the third by Toshiba...all designed by General Electric using data from an Earthquake that took place during 1952 in Kern County, California (which was a 7.3 quake). They all survived the 1978 Miyami Earthquake with no damage. That was a 7.7 quake. However that earthquake's tsumani was relatively weak, the waves not even going as high as a meter. __________________

2011-03-14, 21:15	Link #984
killer3000ad Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Australia Age: 41	Third blast at Fukushima Daiichi plant. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12740843 __________________

2011-03-14, 21:25	Link #985
WanderingKnight Gregory House IT Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Age: 35	They've more or less confirmed a containment vessel breach at one of the reactors. So the question is now, China syndrome or not? The worst case scenario is getting closer and closer. __________________ Place them in a box until a quieter time \| Lights down, you up and die.

2011-03-14, 22:06	Link #994
WanderingKnight Gregory House IT Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Age: 35	Huh. So much for information accuracy. __________________ Place them in a box until a quieter time \| Lights down, you up and die.

2011-03-14, 22:47	Link #996
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	Seriously we need some sort of official twitter update concerning the powerplants. The news media from multiple sources are quoting different information based on different times, and it is really one big mess. I just don't know what to believe any more. __________________

2011-03-14, 19:33	Link #981
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	For Japanese literate, I recommend Radio 1 as they have been focusing on the ToDen press conferences in a tad more detail. Er they were at any rate.

2011-03-14, 21:11	Link #983
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Fire at No. 4 according to Chief Edano, but the rods themselves arent believed to be aflame.

2011-03-14, 21:37	Link #986
bayoab Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	FLASH - French embassy in Tokyo says weak radioactive contamination could reach Tokyo in 10 hrs from stricken nuclear plant [Reuters]

2011-03-14, 21:52	Link #989
Qikz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Age: 33	I typed this out from NHK's translation and I did it quickly. At the time of the quake, number 4 was out of action and their was no fuel rods in the reactor but their was still used material inside the reactors. As it heated, it created hydrogen which caused some explosions. Reactor 4 is currently burning. In the cases of 1 and 3. The outer buildings were blown off but the reactor was fine. Debris fell into Reactor 4 leading to bigger problems. Hydrogen is being generated so they believe radioactive substances are also being released. Reactor 4 is no longer held inside the building. They're doing their best to put out the fire and cool down the reactor still to stop more leaking. An explosion was heard at Reactor 2 this morning (we already know), after that time a hole was observed in reactor 2. So we've been saying that it was very unlikely a hydrogen explosion would happen at reactor 2. This happened when he was holding a press conference this morning. The part of the supression chamber seems to have caused the sound of the blast and a little bit of a radioactive substance is said to be released. It's said a smoke like stream can be seen coming from the reactor 2 building, but probably the damage has been found from the hydrogen and the steam could be hydrogen. So I am informing you of what we have heard before these meetings. 1-2-3 water cooling is continuing and so far for all 3 reactors water cooling is continiung properly and the rods seem to be cooled, we now need to deal with how to keep them cool and deal with the fire at 4. As to do with the radioactive gases/material and the monitor done this morning, between reactor 2-3 a 400milli cverd and 4 was 100milli. Rather they were milli cvert which is bigger than the micro cverts shown so far. Now we're looking at levels that can damage human health. However, these are figures taken from the area closer to the reactor where we believe the gases to be a problem. So please take this calmly and as from 6AM the remaining staff have evacuated the plant other than the 50 who are dealing with the cooling of the plant. We have heard water injection is continiuning smoothly. The situation I'm recording is a very high concern and we are sorry to reporting this. In preparing for this we asked you to evacuate, now that we say these developments from 20-30 please stay inside and do not go outside. When staying inside, keep windows shut and do not use ventalation equiptments and if you hang your laundry keep it indoors. The further away you move from the power plants, the radiation will become lower. So beyond 20km radius the radiation levels will be reduce greatly and the risk to humans will be minimal, but of course the radiation spread depends on windspeed and direction. Please stay indoors and do your best not to be exposed to radiation. I am holding this conference after the cabinet meeting where we have talked about ordinary measures and discussed what we have learned already. The whole cabinet is getting together to deal with this situation and also we have talked about rescue operations and assistance that are required for the earthquake survivors. I wish to end my comment. QUESTIONS How do you see the damage to the metropoliton areas? The water injections are going well and if you have any questions please contact TEPCO, the pressure has been stabilised and we have done our best to maintain this pressure. You mentioned the fire in reactor 4, is the fire more serious than reactor 2? Well I mentioned it first as it occured earliar. That's why I talked about 4 first. Not suppresion chamber, but is there damage done to the vessel of reactor 2? I've got to report there is a high probability that some portion of the vessel was damaged. 1-2-3 reactors Radiation levels from these reactors have very little possibility of doing harm to human health. Just like other reactors 4 is emmiting heat, that's why the substance is likely to be released from the vessel. The fire from episode 4 is not one that will likely emmit hazardous materials but we want to put the fire out as quick as possible. Those in 30KM radius are told to stay indoors? They say people should be evacuated from that area, but the final decision was made by the primeminister, we're currently working on what's the safest choice and we're analysing figures and asking experts on what we should do, which is why you should stay indoors. Due to current readings we decided to ask the people in 20KM radius and 30KM to stay inside based on these opinions. From 1-3-4 reactors the radiation readings are high, is there any link to 2? We think that it could be a possibility that the explosion could have been linked to 2, but 1-2-3 water cooling is going well and after 2's explosion we didn't see any increase in radiation levels. At 4 we are working and doing anything we can to put the fire out, but the leftover fuel will not catch fire. Only the building but we don't want the temperature to go up as heat could cause more radioactive material from being released. Is there any possibility of radiation leaks down to this fire? There's a small possibility stuff could have been release, but I would like TEPCO to give the figures. The current high are from Reactor 4 fire, reactor 2 has not contributed greatly in the leap in radiation. At Onagawa too, there are radiation levels but they will not damage humans so that is why we are not evacuating them, only at fukushima. --- For people from 20-30km radius I will read out the city names (some towns that overlap with the outside area so I would like to read out towns or muncipalities that will Tamuramachi Minamimachi Hironomachi Narahamachi Tomoyoka Kawauchi Okuma Futaba Namia Katsurou Iidatte Iiwakishi How long will it take to estinguish the fire? On site, the people in charge are trying to take corrective actions as quickly as possible. Are you going to continue the injection of water after the extinguishing the fire? Yes, thankyou very much for your questions. --- I did it for another forum but thought I'd post it here too. I'm really sorry if it reads badly I just wanted to type it down and I was in a rush to keep up. I missed out little bits of information, but I hope it's of help.

2011-03-14, 21:56	Link #991
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Listening to local NPR radio talk show, commentator makes interesting observation about political stakes, he says that if the DPJ botch the rescue effort in the eyes of the people, it will pummel them politcally and people will fly back to the LDP. What do Japanese members think? Neither party seems to vary much in policy or approach to politics so I think it's silly.

2011-03-14, 22:51	Link #997
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Or interpreted quickly based on what would sound like the best story. __________________

2011-03-14, 22:54	Link #998
WanderingKnight Gregory House IT Support Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Age: 35	The only certain thing we have is what the PM said. And it didn't sound good at all. __________________ Place them in a box until a quieter time \| Lights down, you up and die.