Japan Earthquake and Tsunami (March 11, 2011)

[Mystique]

Wow, from skimming the posts, one would think that WanderingKnight`s the one experiencing the constant tremors, strong aftershocks, limited food and transport, breathing in a lil more radiation in the air and on edge for 5 days in a row rather than the rest of us (just summarisingng what happened today as an update)
You seem kinda all over the place :/

Chiba area got another strong quake this lunchtime, the entire school at work rocked naturally, the teachers are kinda freaking out but we`re holding it together.

I will say this:
It truly is a true test of one`s mental strength as a human being, that`s for sure...

[TheForsaken]

This is the radiation measurement at Tsukuba (a bit closer to Fukushima than Tokyo): http://www.aist.go.jp/taisaku/ja/measurement/

[Jeffry2009]

http://news4vip.livedoor.biz/archives/51761796.html

[WanderingKnight]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Wow, from skimming the posts, one would think that WanderingKnight`s the one experiencing the constant tremors, strong aftershocks, limited food and transport, breathing in a lil more radiation in the air and on edge for 5 days in a row rather than the rest of us (just summarisingng what happened today as an update)
You seem kinda all over the place :/

I'm just pissed off at the whole situation. My best friend's brother lives in Tokyo and I've been to the country, and intended to go to the country in the future. I just have a lot of appreciation for it and I'd hate to see any major catastrophe happen there.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Well the 1000 mSv thing was said by Edano himself. Unless my ears are deceiving me.

He said it, and he mispoke. He was corrected in a later press conference. He meant to say "micro" instead of "milli".

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Full article here. These religious types never stop to amaze me

Japan has been wallowing in stagnation for years despite massive government stimulus programs and zero-interest rates because, simply put, in such an advanced, mature economy, there was too little demand to generate sufficient returns to attract private investment. Thus the famous “bridges to nowhere” and other projects that amounted to pushing a string.

By taking Japan’s mature economy down a notch, Mother Nature has accomplished what fiscal policy and the central bank could not. Now there are more bridges to somewhere to be built than one can count. Entire cities and regions need to be reconstructed in toto, from housing and commercial buildings to roads, rail lines, information networks, the energy grid, and even the tsunami warning system that must be digitally revamped. Twitter- and Facebook-like platforms will need to be integrated into a system reliant on old technologies like warning sirens and radio or TV broadcasts. (It was reported that at one point on the day of the quake, 20 tweets a second were coming out of Tokyo.)

The result of all the new wealth creation will be money in the pockets of Japanese to buy global goods and services.

This newly created demand will surely attract the piles of cash out there looking for investment opportunities, from global private equity pools to American banks and China’s sovereign funds. At a dinner in Hong Kong a couple of weeks ago, one of Asia’s largest investors complained to me about the dearth of good deals in Asia outside of China. China itself has more surplus funds than it knows what to do with. Direct foreign investment in overly indebted Japan’s reconstruction by China would more closely integrate the second- and third-largest economies in the world in a way that political reconciliation has failed to do under normal circumstances.

sounds like a blessing in disguise

also my impression is Japan hasn't grown much economically since the mid 90s...
fast forward to 2011 and the size of their economy is almost the same size as it was back in '95, only with more debt

[Ithekro]

You know what technology I want to come out of all this? Energy shields (I would prefer the kind that don't eletrocute you if it and you are in water). Not only to contain radiation if things went badly, but also to act as a wall in case of future large tsunami that can variable and thus block any wave effectively.

[Malkuth]

There is a huge gap between TV and print coverage, for example BBC's text news feeds are still calm and collected stating facts and sources, but it's TV short reports are certainly trying to induce panic... dunno, other channels are worse (German and Greek).

[solomon]

There is no incentive for outside news sources to really be "calm" like the Japanese press is. This kind of event is what TV news is made for.

Particularly if the network is commercial, it's just the style of the times.

(Although the Papers are really laying it on too here and in Europe).

Western journalism always had a sense of theatrics about it, turn up theatrical levels and it leads to sensationalism to various degrees. I too have largely ignored US domestic tv news services as I can read/understand more timely Japanese papers and TV fairly well. Not to mention the fact that the foreign press is relying on more hype than necessary.

Still this is the largest catastrophe that the 3rd largest economy has faced so you can understand the scope some people will want to use for the story.

I'm using the BBC site for backup because it's so comprehensive along with CNN International (the American service is a joke now).

[flying ^]

some really high profile foreigner has something interesting about the J-media.



March 14, 2011: You are absolutely right to have zero trust in Government of Japan (GOJ) or Japanese-controlled press on this. The Japanese authorities simply won’t confirm the meltdown that is occurring. Here are some of the facts from the western press:

1. The USS Ronald Reagan, located 100 miles Northeast, had to relocate due to a radioactive plume cloud heading their way.

2. 17 members of the Reagan’s helicopter crews doing rescue missions have tested positive for radioactivity. All helos are being decontaminated as they return to the Reagan.

3. The Navy has tested positively for airborne radioactivity up to 100 miles away from the plant.

4. The Japanese are pumping saltwater in to cool the rods. This is only done as a last-ditch effort, since salt corrodes the reactors. After that, they are out of options.

5. Cesium has been detected by the Navy in the air. The presence of this element in the air is an indication that the rods have actually started melting.

6. The plant at Onagawa is also experiencing abnormally high radiation levels. This plant is much closer to Tokyo.

Now, let’s remember how the GOJ is treating the casualty numbers. They are reporting 1600 casualties right now. That’s because they do not even consider a person “dead” until they are identified, so even though they have thousands of bodies piled up, they won’t report them yet as “dead”. That is the way the GOJ operates. They are simply not forthcoming with information. The US Govt. was extremely frustrated at this way of operating during the Kobe earthquake. The US Government could not get adequate situational awareness because the GOJ was simply not forthcoming. This is no different.

Right now, the GOJ “officials have yet to confirm a meltdown because IT IS TOO HOT INSIDE THE TO CHECK.” (cnn.com) So, do they expect the reactor to cool down so they can check and confirm that the rods are actually melting? Noriyuki Shikata, a spokesman for Japan’s prime minister, said Sunday the situation was “under control.” (cnn.com). Under control? You can’t confirm if the rods are melting because it’s too hot to check, but everything is under control?

Stephanie Cooke, editor of Nuclear Intelligence Weekly for the atomic-energy community, said best summarized the GOJ on this issue by saying “The more they say they’re in control, the more I sense things may be out of control. (cnn.com)”

[solomon]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

There is a huge gap between TV and print coverage, for example BBC's text news feeds are still calm and collected stating facts and sources, but it's TV short reports are certainly trying to induce panic... dunno, other channels are worse (German and Greek).

Are you watching Pheonix, I'd think that a service of the ARD would be pretty chill. (calm)

[Tyabann]

This is being horribly mismanaged... I really wonder what's going to happen next.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

There is a huge gap between TV and print coverage, for example BBC's text news feeds are still calm and collected stating facts and sources, but it's TV short reports are certainly trying to induce panic... dunno, other channels are worse (German and Greek).

It's what TV programs do. I ignore them completely and get my information from the internet, as it's usually giving out reports from people who actually know how things work. Not some brain-dead 'journalist'.

[solomon]

I always had a modest suspicion of what the TEPCO people are saying, but I still haven't heard wide concensus from foreign media that a meltdown IS occuring.

I hardly believe that the Japanese press would keep information away that would save their country and journalists themselves have been getting tired of the vague answers TEPCO is saying.

It is true though that NHK is the most reserved in style compared to the commercial networks.

Either way, until I see someone in the press say MELTDOWN OCCURING i'm not going crazy.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by flying ^

A lot of half-truths...

There can't have been a serious leakage of radioactive material yet... Why?
Because:

The highest level of radiation detected anywhere, even right in the site itself, has been 400 mSv. (milli)

That level only continued for a brief time (after one of the explosions) and then has dropped back to 600-800 micro Sv (about 500 times lower).

If melted rods or other directly radioactive material was exposed to the outside in a serious way, those levels would be higher and continuously high at the plant.

The data (not the press), points to all the released radiation to be due to releases of radioactive gases which were from within the reactor core and thus are now radioactive themselves, slightly.

So yes, there has almost certainly been a "meltdown", if by that you define the control rods melting. But there is no indication that any of the molten control rods have been exposed to the environment: Only secondary exposure through vaporized coolant.

It's still really possible that the situation won't get any worse, and the total amount of radiation leaked into the surroundings will be completely nominal.

In any case, I have my new favorite channel:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger-counter-chiba

Currently reads 0.15 micro Sv. I think I'll go for a walk in the park.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by solomon

Are you watching Pheonix, I'd think that a service of the ARD would be pretty chill. (calm)

The only German publication I could stand was Spiegel, everything else I tried to read/watch seemed to me worse than Greek, which I used to considered very bad, until I moved in Germany. I'll check out ARD, you never know

Originally Posted by justinstrife

It's what TV programs do. I ignore them completely and get my information from the internet, as it's usually giving out reports from people who actually know how things work. Not some brain-dead 'journalist'.

Well, OK, inducing panic is what TV news try to do, that does not change the fact that they shouldn't, their job is supposed to inform, not misinform the public. Still watching the BBC reports, and I have never heard so many "may", "maybe", "can", "could", "probably", "we suspect", &c.

EDIT for

Originally Posted by solomon

Either way, until I see someone in the press say MELTDOWN OCCURING i'm not going crazy.

Even in that case, there is no reason to panic, it has happened before in US and in much more densely populated area. Our health is more damaged by countless other sources. Anyway, it is still very annoying to focus on speculative panic-inducing unknowns, rather than aid those in real need, that half million displaced population.

[Green²]

Originally Posted by flying ^

6. The plant at Onagawa is also experiencing abnormally high radiation levels. This plant is much closer to Tokyo.

Incorrect on the location. The Onagawa Nuclear Power Plant is north-northeast of the Fukushima No.1.
Tokyo is south west from the Fukushima No.1 plant.

[solomon]

Did I miss the Emperor on tv?

[Tom Bombadil]

@Quark Boy,

I am glad that there are people posting precise information on the board. More often we see general statements like "radiation detected 100 miles off Fukushima", but the more important question is really "when?For how long? at what level? How is that compared to normal level or dangerous level?" These information is often omitted because either people are purposely trying to stir up confusion and fear, or they are catering to the crowd who simply refuses to use their brain to process some data.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by solomon

Either way, until I see someone in the press say MELTDOWN OCCURING i'm not going crazy.

you know something is out of whack when even the likes of el-Rushbo and G-Beck are telling PBS to Fox to CNN to ABC, CBS, NBC to take a chill pill and quit saying "meltdown" as many times as they possibly can per hour