Gundam 00 Within the Franchise : Discussion and Comparison

[thephreak]

Originally Posted by hamstar

Yeah definately, the more you keep doing it the dumber it gets. Kira surviving the self destruct for the 1st time....okay fine he's the main character he cant really die anyway. Then the fool gets impaled by shin, his MS blows up, he's fine. Athrun is also blown up in destiny, he's fine too? No wait, that's not all, they bring back mwu from the death as well because they dont have much to talk about so introduce a dead character for some drama. Really lame.

People that like Seed destiny are like battered house-wives that can't really see that their man doesnt really love them. They've deluded themselves into liking the series because they've invested all that time and love into a series and have selective memory when it comes to the major pitfalls.

also refer to sig

the degree of realism is not the only factor in determining whether a person likes seed/destiny or not. it all boils down to taste and preferences. just because its unrealistic doesn't mean it cant be liked. The only reason its so controversial is because Seed/Destiny were the first Gundam series to take it that far.

[hamstar]

Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi

I agree with everything you said except for 00 being most realistic gundam series to date.

I'll be honest with you, I havent watched all the gundam anime so saying something extreme like "most realistic to date" was a bit foolish on my part. I'm sure there are Gundam shows that were on par with 00.

As for when I said seed was prettiest to date, what i meant to say was "prettier than anything preceding it." Sorry for that error.

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by hamstar

actually the irony in this statement is that you are saying you cant have an intellectual discussion about something just because it's Gundam we are talking about. I was talking about how good art, in this case gundam 00 should reflect upon reality within the context of the show. That's an important part of any show really. If you think having a intellectual discussion about the believability of a anime is a waste of time maybe you are right, you shouldn't even be on this forum posting maybe?

with james bond, yes the series has been total garbage until very recently. As a genre it's not really believable and that's why it never wins any academy awards!!

Those shows you talked about, terminator, apocalype etc, those are all shows that some smart people watch and decide if it is truly a work of art and made well OR if it's just a piece of trash like the others.

Honestly do you think of an intellectual discussion over the artistic merits of garbage as a good usage of your time. Aren't you a medical student?

No I am not saying Gundam is garbage but it's definitely not high on my ladder of great Scifi either (this include 00 of course). I watch it mostly just because I have an unhealthy interest in space which is also the reason I ended up working in the US aerospace industry.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Astrana

If you look at 08ms, 0083, G and turn A these are all amazing series with really interesting storylines they are not as popular in the north america market is probably because their animation and lack of moe girls with big hoohoos.

OBJECTION!!!

Aina was very beautiful, and Allenby Beardsley and Rayne Mikamura were both stacked as anyone else except Murrue, Mia, and Sumeragi.

[hamstar]

Originally Posted by thephreak

the degree of realism is not the only factor in determining whether a person likes seed/destiny or not. it all boils down to taste and preferences. just because its unrealistic doesn't mean it cant be liked. The only reason its so controversial is because Seed/Destiny were the first Gundam series to take it that far.

Of course. If you like being whipped in basement to death that's also personal preference too. It's also personal preference to watch scat or snuff and call it the best thing ever.

Degree of realism is important though. Ask an good manga or film director and if they know what quality story telling is they will tell you that believability is important if you want to capture the heart of an audience.

Can you really love something that you think is a complete joke? I guess that's something only your character can decide.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

OBJECTION!!!

Aina was very beautiful, and Allenby Beardsley and Rayne Mikamura were both stacked as anyone else except Murrue, Mia, and Sumeragi.

And I don't remember any of those three getting into tight laytex and then having a one-on-one match to decide who got the man. Allenby vx. Raine Gundam Fight pwns all other female combat scenes ever.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by hamstar

Of course. If you like being whipped in basement to death that's also personal preference too. It's also personal preference to watch scat or snuff and call it the best thing ever.

Degree of realism is important though. Ask an good manga or film director and if they know what quality story telling is they will tell you that believability is important if you want to capture the heart of an audience.

Can you really love something that you think is a complete joke? I guess that's something only your character can decide.

Absolutely. If you recognize where it tries to be a joke and where it tries to be realistic and take it for what it is, you most certainly can. This is why I've been able to enjoy every single Gundam series that I've seen.

[hamstar]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Absolutely. If you recognize where it tries to be a joke and where it tries to be realistic and take it for what it is, you most certainly can. This is why I've been able to enjoy every single Gundam series that I've seen.

replace the word 'joke' with 'trash'.

That's what I meant to say. I thought it was pretty clear but I guess some people might interpret what I said like that.

>.>


WAIT.

If you still say you can love something that is a joke/trash, you are just a whore!

[Astrana]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

OBJECTION!!!

Aina was very beautiful, and Allenby Beardsley and Rayne Mikamura were both stacked as anyone else except Murrue, Mia, and Sumeragi.

yes, I just think the female characters in te show i listed are designed for the story not like in 00, female characters are designed for the market. seriously, every female char in CB has double Ds, other than wang liu mei...

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by Var

You're mixing genres, which is silly. Aka, you're comparing apples and oranges. Gundam is more intune with a comparison to... Transformers. Also alot of the shows you listed, can and will be, called not serious or even less serious than Gundam by others. That is opinion.

For me, for example, Alien was a comedy. I couldn't take that seriously if I were paid to.

I was just saying that whatever genre it is in the likes of Gundam and Transformers doesn't even deserve to be critically analyzed in the first place.

Yes everything is an opinion but the fact that you just said Alien was a comedy makes me think all of your other opinions are rubbish.

[Var]

Originally Posted by kiramuro

I was just saying that whatever genre it is in the likes of Gundam and Transformers doesn't even deserve to be critically analyzed in the first place.

Yes everything is an opinion but the fact that you just said Alien was a comedy makes me think all of your other opinions are rubbish.

I found Alien as a comedy simply out of some of its stupid plot elements, completely made up elements, and rediculous elements. Was it a good watch? Yes, but I found it more comically entertaining than thrilling.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by hamstar

replace the word 'joke' with 'trash'.

That's what I meant to say. I thought it was pretty clear but I guess some people might interpret what I said like that.

>.>


WAIT.

If you still say you can love something that is a joke/trash, you are just a whore!

Trash by what stretch of the imagination? I interpreted 'joke' as something not taking itself seriously. I don't find gundam trash by any stretch of the imagination, but that's because I don't take it seriously for far greater crimes against seriousness than character revivals (in fact character revivals are infinitesimally small compared to the other elements which I listed earlier).

So yeah...Gundam isn't trashy. Most anime indeed is trashy, but cool characters like Heero, Zechs, Kira, Lacus, Lockon, Sumeragi, and Ali Al Sarges keep me coming back for more.

[thephreak]

Originally Posted by hamstar

replace the word 'joke' with 'trash'.

That's what I meant to say. I thought it was pretty clear but I guess some people might interpret what I said like that.

>.>


WAIT.

If you still say you can love something that is a joke/trash, you are just a whore!

one man's trash is anothers treasure...figuratively speakin of course, some people might interpret what I said like that

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by Astrana

yes, I just think the female characters in te show i listed are designed for the story not like in 00, female characters are designed for the market. seriously, every female char in CB has double Ds, other than wang liu mei...

You're giving Felt too much credit there. And Sumeragi is clearly more stacked than Christina.

But yes, exactly. When you can identify the elements of the show that are put in for the marketability, you can enjoy them for their entertainment value like you enjoy budweister commercials during the superbowl

[Astrana]

Originally Posted by Var

I found Alien as a comedy simply out of some of its stupid plot elements, completely made up elements, and rediculous elements. Was it a good watch? Yes, but I found it more comically entertaining than thrilling.

Aliens are made in late 70s, and 80s... not 90s

what I am trying to say is if you rate Aliens with today's standard yes, it is kinda silly.

but back in 80s, alien is probably intense and scary

[hamstar]

Originally Posted by kiramuro

Honestly do you think of an intellectual discussion over the artistic merits of garbage as a good usage of your time. Aren't you a medical student?

No I am not saying Gundam is garbage but it's definitely not high on my ladder of great Scifi either (this include 00 of course). I watch it mostly just because I have an unhealthy interest in space which is also the reason I ended up working in the US aerospace industry.

I said i got into medical school. I didn't say I was attending it right now. I have a whole year off until i start so there no contradiction. Yes I realise that anyones time can be better spent doing almost anything but watching gundam, but this series (00) has captivated me and it is something I look forward to watching each weekend.

Oh and nice to know there are people doing work in the real world that are on this forum. I sometimes feel like I'm one of the few people over 20 in this crowd.

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by Var

I found Alien as a comedy simply out of some of its stupid plot elements, completely made up elements, and rediculous elements. Was it a good watch? Yes, but I found it more comically entertaining than thrilling.

Are you sure you watched the same Alien that I am talking about. Honestly you are the first person I've ever heard to describe it as a comedy. It didn't receive high ratings from the critics, scientists and general audiences alike for no reason.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Remember, it's anime. If there is even a remotely tiny possibility that a character can survive, then he might as well be alive if the creator wishes it. This is why there are such TV tropes as

There's also the possibility that the creator wants said character dead, planned it that way from the beginning, and is pissed at the fanbase for not accepting the death as that basically means they think they can tell the creators own story better than the actual creator. That's bascially telling the creator "I don't care about your story I just like that one character and want to only see them"

Not everyone is a complete sell out like Fukuda, that puts ratings and keeping the fanbase happy above everything else. This director seems like he wants to tell his story and doesn't really care if its not exactly what the fans want.

Another case Joss Whedon. The creator of two extremely successful franchises and one small one with a cult fanbase. He kills characters all the time, sometimes extremely popular ones at that. The fans send him hate mail and complaints and all that drama. Does he care? Nope. It's his story and he's giving you "what you need, not what you want". His response to killing off one of the most popular characters of Firefly in the movie. "Good. I'm glad your upset he's gone. It means I did my job."

[Var]

Originally Posted by kiramuro

Are you sure you watched the same Alien that I am talking about. Honestly you are the first person I've ever heard to describe it as a comedy. It didn't receive high ratings from the critics, scientists and general audiences alike for no reason.

Yes that Alien. Also, the 'scientific' reviews were such for the time it was made and for the basics of science. There are so many physics based issues with the show that... well its funny. Don't take the word comedy to literally, either. The show is anything but a comedy, as per the genre, but certain parts of it and how they simply transpired made me chuckle.

And if you ask enough people more will tell you they did not find it thrilling. I know I am not the only one. It was simply not a horror/scifi that fit my tastes. There's also the fact that I watched it by today's standards (roughly) so alot of the impact the show may have had in the past, had been long since deluted.

Anyway, this is going way off topic.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

There's also the possibility that the creator wants said character dead, planned it that way from the beginning, and is pissed at the fanbase for not accepting the death as that basically means they think they can tell the creators own story better than the actual creator. That's bascially telling the creator "I don't care about your story I just like that one character and want to only see them"

Not everyone is a complete sell out like Fukuda, that puts ratings and keeping the fanbase happy above everything else. This director seems like he wants to tell his story and doesn't really care if its not exactly what the fans want.

Another case Joss Whedon. The creator of two extremely successful franchises and one small one with a cult fanbase. He kills characters all the time, sometimes extremely popular ones at that. The fans send him hate mail and complaints and all that drama. Does he care? Nope. It's his story and he's giving you "what you need, not what you want". His response to killing off one of the most popular characters of Firefly in the movie. "Good. I'm glad your upset he's gone. It means I did my job."

I like you.