Abortion right or wrong

[Thingle]

Originally Posted by harmonious

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species



So you don't think infanticide should be illegal?

So what defines a H.sapiens man? H sapiens DNA?

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by harmonious

Two such disorders exist, they're called Klinefelter syndrome and triple X syndrome.

That, yes, human of course.
Hm. That's new to me actually, I'm not in biology.
But in usual circumstances, the cell will not even develop. It can't at all. Usually.
Still, I think forcing your view on others isn't a good thing, ne?

[Thingle]

I'm going to sleep now so let me pre empt some possible stunts by some guy.

DNA = an ear contains DNA, is it human?

Potentiality + DNA = you are implying a potentiality to be human, thus at the same time implying that the particular organism is not yet human. Forget the yet, focus on the not. It's not human.

Essence= What is it? What constitutes it? and How can you prove it?

[kyon.haruhi.suzumiya]

Originally Posted by Thingle

I'm going to sleep now so let me pre empt some possible stunts by some guy.

Whatever, I'm not going to here any longer, I'm miffed with how some people force their views on others.

[OutSmart]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

3 months is the usual period for the above to happen.

Still, I would prefer to save as many lives as I can, but I'll still give the couple a choice. It's their baby, not mine at the end of the day.

I think we're in the same page.

I also think that its wrong to prevent new life, because THAT is what happens at the end of the day. One with life is free to live.

but when there are so many mothers killing their newborns because they were denied an abortion, and when ther are so many people that, too late for the pill, find out that they're pregnant why not give them the choice for those 3 months, it still isnt exactly the new life (although it prevents it to be). But this way it wouldnt be murder. this way it wouldnt be killing, it would be the same as the birth control pill and the condom

[Alpha Centauri]

Here is my idea.
Abortion= Murdering a human life and harming the parent.
BAD ABORTION.
anyways, I do not believe it is a good thing. Safe sex is not something common anymore as teens have been known too get more pregnant nowadays. So when you think about it, why should a life be taken for anothers mistake? People ask these questions when a robber kills a person or why someone would harm another all the time. But others think, "Its not a human since it has not been fully developed." thing is, it will be a human no matter what.
So, keep it in your pants men and women should keep them pants zippered up if thier not ready to have that trouble to happen :P
also, if they do it without safety, then they should go through the troubles of having a baby, even if they would have to bring it too an orphanage.
SO, screw the person who tries to quote or argue with what i had stated above, for that is just my opinion and I had not said it too be the fact, just ones sayings.

~Alpha

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kyon.haruhi.suzumiya

Right, since everybody's confused, I'm gonna have to put it this way.

I'm a pro-lifer, yes. But there's a limit to how far I'm going to push my views.



As a social worker, I want to see lives being saved, yes. But I don't think I want to cause emotional distress to people, and the furthest I go is 1-2 on the scale above. I don't want people to be mad at me for forcing my views on them.

Therefore, I leave a leeway for people to do what they want with their own body. i knows the risks and dangers of abortion, including infection of uterus, unable to conceive again, mental issues on mother's side, and more.

But it's a choice only you can make. I will never make a choice for others. That's why I won't want to ban abortion. Like prostitution. In most countries, although it's frowned upon, it's not illegal, for if it's illegal, there's always the black market, which may end up destabilizing the situation.



Now, I didn't argue to legalise murder. If you want me to put it right in your face, here we go...
DON'T MEDDLE WITH THE LAW.
There's a reason why governments are not going to touch this subject - because if they amend it, there's sure to be unrest. I only want the status quo to remain as it is.

The law of which country? Besides, for those of us who live in democracies - we're supposed to meddle with laws. That's what it's all about.

Also, this isn't a political forum. Regardless of what's said here, I doubt any of us will suddenly start lobbying on the subject. It's just an intellectual exercise - what's our position on abortion, and why?

As for forcing one's views on others... If someone starts thinking that Blacks aren't real people and that White folks should be able to kill them with impunity... I'd pretty much feel obligated to force my views on him.

[ganbaru]

Usually, I could be qualified of pro-choice.
I fully agree in case of rape, malformation/sickness of the foetus, or then the life of the mother might be in danger.
The problem is when abbortion became a tool for contraception as much as condon or the pill. There will be always error , mistake, and accident, but then someone get abbortion at repetition ( I read case of womwn than used it more than 20 times), I start to have some problem with it. After all it's supposed to be the last ressort's way , no?

[OutSmart]

/copy pastes what's above

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Thingle

I'm going to sleep now so let me pre empt some possible stunts by some guy.

DNA = an ear contains DNA, is it human?

An ear contains an individual's DNA. It does not possess its own individual DNA.

Originally Posted by Thingle

Potentiality + DNA = you are implying a potentiality to be human, thus at the same time implying that the particular organism is not yet human. Forget the yet, focus on the not. It's not human.

I never once argued potentiality + DNA = human. A human egg + human sperm is potentially an individual. Where as a fertilized human egg isn't potentially a human nor is it another species. It is human. Zygote is simply a classification of one stage of growth just as is infant or adult. That human zygote is human, thus making it a person.

[OutSmart]

"I never once argued potentiality + DNA = human. A human egg + human sperm is potentially an individual. Where as a fertilized human egg isn't potentially a human nor is it another species. Zygote is simply a classification of one stage of growth just as is infant or adult. That human zygote is human, thus making it a person."

is it a stage of human evolution? of course
is that Zybote alive? Does he think? does he feel? does he live or wants to? nop

if we're talking about zygotes you can only speak of its potencial, never claiming that its alive

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Usually, I could be qualified of pro-choice.
I fully agree in case of rape, malformation/sickness of the foetus, or then the life of the mother might be in danger.
The problem is when abbortion became a tool for contraception as much as condon or the pill. There will be always error , mistake, and accident, but then someone get abbortion at repetition ( I read case of womwn than used it more than 20 times), I start to have some problem with it. After all it's supposed to be the last ressort's way , no?

I'd say the solution to that is to start distributing condoms (and education, of course). Not to try and judge women's motivations.

Also, 20 abortions sounds like an urban legend. Wouldn't you go barren far before you reach that number?

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by OutSmart

is it a stage of human evolution?

No, it is a stage of human development.

Originally Posted by OutSmart

of course
is that Zybote alive? Does he think? does he live or wants to? nop

A zygote is alive. Mental capacity does not determine rights. An infant doesn't understand who he is, nor does he know what life is to determine if he wants to live or not.

Originally Posted by OutSmart

if we're talking about zygotes you can only speak of its potencial, never claiming that its alive

A zygote isn't potentially human, it is human. A zygote is potentially an infant just like an infant is potentially an adult.

[OutSmart]

"No, it is a stage of human development. " ergo its evolution since every different match of DNA may contribute to it.

"A zygote is alive." - I can't rly make you believe otherwise, cause both of us would get mad discussing it. I think we just have different concepts and I leave it there

"A zygote isn't potentially a human, it is human." -it's human, it's not a human. dunno if you get what I mean.

[Zippicus]

@Harmonious, after reading the last couple of pages I want to toss a question out to you. What happens to the mother in the case of a miscarriage ? Her body just killed someone, should she be charged with a crime ?

[OutSmart]

lol, I think we are talking about intentional abortion here

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Zippicus

@Harmonious, after reading the last couple of pages I want to toss a question out to you. What happens to the mother in the case of a miscarriage ? Her body just killed someone, should she be charged with a crime ?

Death by natural causes. Murder denotes intent.

[Zippicus]

Originally Posted by OutSmart

lol, I think we are talking about intentional abortion here

Well he was the one calling it murder, the difference between murder and manslaughter is intent.

[harmonious]

Originally Posted by Zippicus

Well he was the one calling it murder, the difference between murder and manslaughter is intent.

Not true, there is both involuntary manslaughter and voluntary manslaughter. Voluntary manslaughter is where the perpetrator has an intent to cause serious injury or death. Involuntary manslaughter is usually for deaths in regard to recklessness or willful blindness.

Ultimately it would depend on why there was a miscarriage. Knowingly using drugs that can cause death would certainly put it in the involuntary manslaughter category.

[u43368]

I think I'm going to echo what some have said before and say that it's a woman's body and her choice.