(L) Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu

[RedWing]

What a stupid piece of a crap this episode was. People do not behave like Ryner did this episode.

People are irrational and fear driven - they aren't not just generally stupid. Ryner is shown to make a calm and composed decision to betray his teammates for what? A murderer - Tiir is hunted as a sociopathic killer, not as a magic eyes bearer! A irrational fear driven (read normal) angry human would run away or attack Sion et al for their crimes against him, humans don't make reasoned decisions that go against themselves and bring no benefit.
Who was to say that Tiir would keep his promise? Tiir could kill him at any time and he wouldn't have any defense whatsoever against him! Tiir could've killed everyone their with no issues! Is that a reasoned decision? Is it a decision made in anger, wrath, jealousy or any other human emotion? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

I was hoping and heralding LOLH as the new coming of shounen, where plot exposition isn't an excuse for filler and characters have issues that they live with in and around people with other issues (y'know like real life) but with the current run of things this is turning out to be nothing at all. Where the plot is being run by coincidences and misunderstandings rather than deliberate actions and meaningful discussions. Where the realities of the hypocrisies of our actions and existence are ignored for excuses to cause divisions. Screw this shit.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by RedWing

What a stupid piece of a crap this episode was. People do not behave like Ryner did this episode.

People are irrational and fear driven - they aren't not just generally stupid. Ryner is shown to make a calm and composed decision to betray his teammates for what? A murderer - Tiir is hunted as a sociopathic killer, not as a magic eyes bearer! A irrational fear driven (read normal) angry human would run away or attack Sion et al for their crimes against him, humans don't make reasoned decisions that go against themselves and bring no benefit.
Who was to say that Tiir would keep his promise? Tiir could kill him at any time and he wouldn't have any defense whatsoever against him! Tiir could've killed everyone their with no issues! Is that a reasoned decision? Is it a decision made in anger, wrath, jealousy or any other human emotion? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

I was hoping and heralding LOLH as the new coming of shounen, where plot exposition isn't an excuse for filler and characters have issues that they live with in and around people with other issues (y'know like real life) but with the current run of things this is turning out to be nothing at all. Where the plot is being run by coincidences and misunderstandings rather than deliberate actions and meaningful discussions. Where the realities of the hypocrisies of our actions and existence are ignored for excuses to cause divisions. Screw this shit.

huh? what do you know about the cursed eyes bearers and the burdens they bear? for now, based on what the anime has covered, Ryner does not see himself as human, was constantly betrayed, and needed a place to belong. He also didn't want to trouble Sion anymore. He can relate to what Tiir is saying. Tiir knows where to hit where it hurts most. But that doesn't necessary mean he approve of Tiir's actions. I can't say more than that for now, until more is revealed about Tiir's comrades. Admittedly, being unable to read the novels robs one of a more holistic understanding, but still......

incidentally, this is more seinen than shounen.

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by RedWing

What a stupid piece of a crap this episode was. People do not behave like Ryner did this episode.

snip

You must have missed the starting 15 episodes. I doubt Ryner has much fear of his OWN death given the way he acted at the end of his jail term. Also it must be noted that Ryner did not have seconds, minutes or hours to consider the death warrant signed by his BFF. He had days.

Does he love Roland enough to stay? Probably if he enjoys seeing kids burned to death. So why the heck stay in Roland? What happens when one of the reasons to stay in Roland disappears? What happens when you're reminded that you're a ticking time bomb that could kill another reason you're staying in Roland and that it almost did?

Is it other people's fault that you're a bomb?

[ninja_pintu]

Originally Posted by RedWing

What a stupid piece of a crap this episode was. People do not behave like Ryner did this episode.

People are irrational and fear driven - they aren't not just generally stupid. Ryner is shown to make a calm and composed decision to betray his teammates for what? A murderer - Tiir is hunted as a sociopathic killer, not as a magic eyes bearer! A irrational fear driven (read normal) angry human would run away or attack Sion et al for their crimes against him, humans don't make reasoned decisions that go against themselves and bring no benefit.
Who was to say that Tiir would keep his promise? Tiir could kill him at any time and he wouldn't have any defense whatsoever against him! Tiir could've killed everyone their with no issues! Is that a reasoned decision? Is it a decision made in anger, wrath, jealousy or any other human emotion? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

I was hoping and heralding LOLH as the new coming of shounen, where plot exposition isn't an excuse for filler and characters have issues that they live with in and around people with other issues (y'know like real life) but with the current run of things this is turning out to be nothing at all. Where the plot is being run by coincidences and misunderstandings rather than deliberate actions and meaningful discussions. Where the realities of the hypocrisies of our actions and existence are ignored for excuses to cause divisions. Screw this shit.

Well, different people have different reasoning. You just can't designate one decision per situation and expect everyone to follow it.
Imo, Ryner left not because he was angry or felt betrayed by Sion, rather he realized that he was being a burden on him just by being near him.So leaving Sion's side was a rational decision for him. As for going with Tiir, for someone who was an outcast all his life, the offer to live in a society which can accept him for what he is, and embrace that monster side of his, must have been too great to refuse.
Plus, Ryner might have refused Tiir's offer before he found Sion's letter, but the situation had changed at that point.

[RedWing]

Tiir is a sociopathic murderer. No matter how bad Ryner is feeling bad about himself joining with a person like that isn't logical or emotional.

The equivalent is a hated army soldier who is feeling down about the killings he's done helping and joining a common murderer evade arrest because y'know they're seen as the same and he's a burden on people around him and boo hoo hoo.

Oh wait, people don't behave like that, soldiers don't compare themselves to muderers, people who have involuntary bipolar episodes don't view themselves as people who's purposefully acts like dicks, etc etc.

Ryner's occasional episodes have left him to see himself as a monster the same way an ex soldier may feel bad about their war crimes. Guess what? These people either commit suicide or try to integrate back into society (e.g get on with their lives). They don't go along helping evil people because they feel bad about the things they've done or being an outcast in society.

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Tiir is a sociopathic murderer. No matter how bad Ryner is feeling bad about himself joining with a person like that isn't logical or emotional.

The equivalent is a hated army soldier who is feeling down about the killings he's done helping and joining a common murderer evade arrest because y'know they're seen as the same and he's a burden on people around him and boo hoo hoo.

Oh wait, people don't behave like that, soldiers don't compare themselves to muderers, people who have involuntary bipolar episodes don't view themselves as people who's purposefully acts like dicks, etc etc.

Ryner's occasional episodes have left him to see himself as a monster the same way an ex soldier may feel bad about their war crimes. Guess what? These people either commit suicide or try to integrate back into society (e.g get on with their lives). They don't go along helping evil people because they feel bad about the things they've done or being an outcast in society.

Ryner has only witnessed the fact that Sion wanted to kill Tiir as he is a 'monster', meaning Ryner isn't aware of his 'evilness' or insanity (yet?).
Plus it seems like Tiir had a specific reason for finding Ryner (see when Tiir first appeared this episode).
He didn't find him just to kill him so there's at least the curiosity of what his intentions are, no?
I doubt he is gathering people with similar abilities to erase mankind or something and even so, Ryner hasn't completely 'joined' him yet (see the preview for next episode).

That Ryner followed him maybe wasn't the best choice looking at it from a logical and rational angle, but I don't see how it wasn't comprehendable in an emotional view.
Actually, how is it not emotional?
I think the atmosphere of Ryner's situation was conveyed enough to trigger the decision he ended up taking.
To be honest, like ninja_pintu said, there even was some rationality present.

And I personally wouldn't compare him to some ex soldier.

[DeadlySoldier37]

Great episode, I really enjoyed the episode it really made me feel bad for Ryner and also Ferris, who looked extremely sad when Ryner left, but I'm glad that she is going out to find him. Also Lucille didn't seem to happy when Ferris was talking about her chest hurting, I guess Ryner vs. Lucille i'ts a fight that will happen eventually.

It also seems that Ryner made a contract with something in his childhood, since the voice kept saying contract, destroy and then the evil laughter. I guess we will find out about that as the show keeps going on.

I'm also really excited to where things will go from here and I also hope that Ferris catches up to Ryner soon.

[cors8]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Tiir is a sociopathic murderer. No matter how bad Ryner is feeling bad about himself joining with a person like that isn't logical or emotional.

The equivalent is a hated army soldier who is feeling down about the killings he's done helping and joining a common murderer evade arrest because y'know they're seen as the same and he's a burden on people around him and boo hoo hoo.

Oh wait, people don't behave like that, soldiers don't compare themselves to muderers, people who have involuntary bipolar episodes don't view themselves as people who's purposefully acts like dicks, etc etc.

Ryner's occasional episodes have left him to see himself as a monster the same way an ex soldier may feel bad about their war crimes. Guess what? These people either commit suicide or try to integrate back into society (e.g get on with their lives). They don't go along helping evil people because they feel bad about the things they've done or being an outcast in society.

People are unpredictable. While you may think what Ryner is doing is stupid, I guarantee that you can find a couple of people out there in the world that would do the EXACT same thing or even crazier shit.

I wouldn't know how I would react if I grew up the way he did and went berserk, nearly killing my friends, twice already.

Also, Ryner doesn't know anything about Tiir's history. All he knows is Tiir is a "cursed" eye bearer. People calling Tiir a monster changes nothing because people call Ryner a monster too.

[DeadlySoldier37]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Tiir is a sociopathic murderer. No matter how bad Ryner is feeling bad about himself joining with a person like that isn't logical or emotional.

The equivalent is a hated army soldier who is feeling down about the killings he's done helping and joining a common murderer evade arrest because y'know they're seen as the same and he's a burden on people around him and boo hoo hoo.

Oh wait, people don't behave like that, soldiers don't compare themselves to muderers, people who have involuntary bipolar episodes don't view themselves as people who's purposefully acts like dicks, etc etc.

Ryner's occasional episodes have left him to see himself as a monster the same way an ex soldier may feel bad about their war crimes. Guess what? These people either commit suicide or try to integrate back into society (e.g get on with their lives). They don't go along helping evil people because they feel bad about the things they've done or being an outcast in society.

I think whats important is the part that Tiir said about humans kept betraying them time after time and how humans would never understand the darkness in their hearts. As you can tell Ryner has been experiencing this since his childhood, time and time again. Add that with what Lucille said about he could never reach anything and he could never obtain anything it just iterated the fact that Ryner is meant to be lonely.

So for Ryner to find people like him who are willing to accept him for what he is as they describe themselves as "monsters" must feel refreshing and just like someone else said it's not like he has joined them.

[Methuselah]

I hate the animation quality as it ruins the dramatic effects.

Why doesn't Ryner go with Tiir? For the first time in his life he met someone in the same condition as him: A monster shunned by society and has indeed murdered hundreds of people. He said it himself that it's obvious he cannot find peace and that even his friends has to make precautions to hide/exterminate him when the time needs. Ryner has never really been honest throughout the whole anime. This is what is sooo freaken tragic and annoying about Ryner: He has no identity/acknowledgment from himself nor from others. Ferris seems to accept him but in a violent way. Sion think so too but they rarely talk about specifics - perhaps to avoid the gay... He is always sluggish to the point where it's extremely irritating. Now that he is with someone like him I hope that changes - probably not.

Ryner was pissed too when Sion ordered his troops to: "Fire your arrows. Kill him. Kill that monster." That word from his friend really hits him hard.

I like this. But could it have been done better and less cliche and uncreative - of course. I guess their funding really went down the drain.

[Arya]

Ryner decision could have been leaded by his feeling of betrayal and guilt to be a monster, but he is not a stupid. He got ferries past issues by himself. I think he understood tiir's power in an instant. In this situation the best option to keep the damage at the lowest was to go away with the guy. In this way nobody got hurt. Not the soldiers, not Sion and, most importantly, not Ferris And nobody will ('couse he will be not around). So no more pain for Sion, no more danger for Ferris. And in this way he could keep an eye on Tiir and his plans, so from another point of view keep on defending them from afar. Ok, I know it is too brilliant, but it could be
Anyways filnally we got Ferris showing her will and her feeling for Ryner

[Methuselah]

Originally Posted by Arya

Ryner decision could have been leaded by his feeling of betrayal and guilt to be a monster, but he is not a stupid. He got ferries past issues by himself. I think he understood tiir's power in an instant. In this situation the best option to keep the damage at the lowest was to go away with the guy. In this way nobody got hurt. Not the soldiers, not Sion and, most importantly, not Ferris And nobody will ('couse he will be not around). So no more pain for Sion, no more danger for Ferris. And in this way he could keep an eye on Tiir and his plans, so from another point of view keep on defending them from afar. Ok, I know it is too brilliant, but it could be
Anyways filnally we got Ferris showing her will and her feeling for Ryner

I love how you left out the poor soldier who's neck got eaten in this episode. Btw he died so there is one casualty. XD

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

I love how you left out the poor soldier who's neck got eaten in this episode. Btw he died so there is one casualty. XD

To be precise, he's killed two. You see him drag one of the soldiers with him when he first appeared before Ryner and Ferris.
But yeah, that one soldier might have survived if they didn't commence the attack which made him need to regenerate.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

I love how you left out the poor soldier who's neck got eaten in this episode. Btw he died so there is one casualty. XD

you are right, i skipped him for brevity.
Plus, I mean, Tiir erased an entire platoon the last time he fought. So one casualty is a really good result.

[Nightengale]

The way I see it, Ryner doesn't approve of Tiir, but he empathizes with how he thinks. He can understand how cursed eye users, treated as monsters and hated by the society, can become something like Tiir, who lives his life looking down and shunning away humans as people altogether, just as cursed eye users aren't treated as humans.

Ryner was thankful that there were people who cared for him and is friends with him. Despite Sion's... mistakes, choices and use of words, Ryner obviously doesn't resent Sion for it, even if he feels sad. I think he is legitimately thankful, but that is also why I believe he accepted Tiir's invitation, because Tiir was also the result of the tyranny and betrayal faced by cursed eye users.

What Sion did was traitorous as a friend, but right as a king. Ryner understood why he did what he did.

What Tiir does, killing, feasting and murdering people is wrong, but Ryner understood why he became like that.

[nubby]

It's not bad quality due to budget, it's just shitty art style that some directors like to use. Remember Samurai Champloo and Gurren Lagann? I personally hate it.

[Methuselah]

This Tiir guy has an obvious weakness. I don't know how Sion deduce physical while ranged attacks could do. Perhaps the reports of him being extremely fast and can absorb magic gave him the ques. But damn Sion not bad for a battle strategist. You should lead the Great War in Naruto that is about to commence :P.

By the way can anyone pm me and tell me what happens next according to novel? What Ferris, Ryner, and Tiir did and to the point of them reuniting.

Pm please~ :O This story is good but I'm afraid the budget is going down the drain.

[iceyfw]

i felt the emotion was somewhat there when they were having their little chit-chat about the alpha stigma during the last 10 minutes of ep. 18, but the pacing felt a bit rushed. i'm sure they could have taken another minute to put an extra oomph for ryner leaving behind roland. and holy crud for the very short fight in the inn! my mind was like at the animation. this better not be a sign of things to come.

Originally Posted by RedWing

What a stupid piece of a crap this episode was. People do not behave like Ryner did this episode.

People are irrational and fear driven - they aren't not just generally stupid. Ryner is shown to make a calm and composed decision to betray his teammates for what? A murderer - Tiir is hunted as a sociopathic killer, not as a magic eyes bearer! A irrational fear driven (read normal) angry human would run away or attack Sion et al for their crimes against him, humans don't make reasoned decisions that go against themselves and bring no benefit.
Who was to say that Tiir would keep his promise? Tiir could kill him at any time and he wouldn't have any defense whatsoever against him! Tiir could've killed everyone their with no issues! Is that a reasoned decision? Is it a decision made in anger, wrath, jealousy or any other human emotion? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

you are not looking at it from ryner's perspective of being an alpha stigma user and what he has been through.

[blewin]

Who is Luke? This guy is damn strong! A dark horse.

Originally Posted by Arya

Ryner decision could have been leaded by his feeling of betrayal and guilt to be a monster, but he is not a stupid. He got ferries past issues by himself. I think he understood tiir's power in an instant. In this situation the best option to keep the damage at the lowest was to go away with the guy. In this way nobody got hurt. Not the soldiers, not Sion and, most importantly, not Ferris And nobody will ('couse he will be not around). So no more pain for Sion, no more danger for Ferris. And in this way he could keep an eye on Tiir and his plans, so from another point of view keep on defending them from afar. Ok, I know it is too brilliant, but it could be
Anyways filnally we got Ferris showing her will and her feeling for Ryner

Judging from Ryner blurting out his musing that Ferris was also one of the elites sent to kill him, I'm certain that he definitely feels deeply disappointed and also betrayed by Sion's order to have him killed. His parting speech carries a world of disappointment!

I would interpret that short period of Ryner's disappearance to someone getting away, digesting this new and unsettling emotion. Ryner's decision to leave Roland could have been driven by emotions - or as you said, a rational decision to save everyone. Still, having read that letter and suddenly go missing like that, the content of the letter must have left an impact on him. I think it's reasonable for him to want to stay away from Sion and Ferris.... at least let some time pass before seeing them again, so his decision to leave is probably BOTH emotional and rational.

[RamzaOwns]

Originally Posted by RedWing

Tiir is a sociopathic murderer. No matter how bad Ryner is feeling bad about himself joining with a person like that isn't logical or emotional.

Here are the choices Ryner was given:
1. Leave with Tiir, Sion stays alive, no more unnecessary deaths, Sion gets to rule his kingdom with no hindrance.
2. Ignore Tiir, Sion gets killed, he goes berserk, everyone dies. Lets say Tiir does get killed without killing Sion... Ryner has already been revealed to everyone as an ASer, he would only become a bigger hindrance for Sion's path because the Hero King is "a friend of a monster".

In other words, Ryner joined Tiir not for his own gain, he joined for Sion's benefit.