Playstation 4

[Chaos2Frozen]

A little change of pace...

Prince William says he'd love to have new PlayStation 4 - if Kate will let him

I lol'd

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD

Sorry I wasn't too clear about that - the Wii U shipped about 3 million units in Nov 2012 - Feb 2013, but they don't count for Nintendo's projections. Right now, there are about 400,000 Wii Us in retail channels, and that figure is ever shrinking as retailers reduce floor space for the console.

The PS4 probably won't catch up to the Wii U's ~3.2 million + change until New Year's. The Wii U is a dead console, but it's not quite that dead!

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

And there is this, although I don't know how reliable it is.

The rumors of sabotage have no real credibility. Normal failure rates for home electronics are in the 3-5% range. Unless the PS4 failure rate is significantly higher than this, there is no need to point fingers at any particular cause. Isolated cases of sabotage are certainly possible, but they're also possible for every product made anywhere, so it's a moot point.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Wait, you mean to say PS4 has twice outsold in ONE day the WiiU has done for its entire lifetime so far? What's Nintendo doing? XD

Nope, it has outsold in one day what the Wii U sold on the first week of availability and means absolutely nothing.

Yes, I'll keep saying this until people get it: launch sales mean absolutely nothing for the future of a console and are only indicative of manufacturing and logistics ability from the manufacturing company. It does not mean anything else. If Sony had made 2 millions in time of release it would have still sold out. I would start raising an eyebrow if they had managed to put 4M in stores at launch day but then I would be asking if where the hell had they been hiding them these last year because that would be an insane number of consoles produced.

If Microsoft has 1M consoles ready to put in stores shelves by launch date I can assure you they'll sell out as well. It's just the nature of the game. (btw, I seriously doubt that MS can match that number given the fact that they have backed out of previously announced launch dates for certain countries due to stock)

What really impresses me here is Sony ability to put 1M consoles on North America and still have enough inventory left over to launch in the EU just two weeks later. Now that is a bloody impressive show of logistics that not many companies can match. Out of the top of my head I can see Apple doing it but they are known to be insanely good at logistics (Tim Cook is regularly quoted as the mastermind behind Apple's outstanding logistics) and maybe someone like Toyota but I have my doubts.

It's seriously impressive and I can't wait to see how the EU numbers turn out but (just to reiterate) it means absolutely nothing about long term viability of the system. Remember the original Wii? It was sold out all the way from the Black Friday release date all the way into the next year and that didn't particularly help the abyssal third party support for the system throughout it's lifetime. Sure it sold like a beast but the games didn't and as a gamer I'm interested in games, not which system sells the most.

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

A little change of pace...

Prince William says he'd love to have new PlayStation 4 - if Kate will let him

I lol'd

Yoshida tweeted it too.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Nope, it has outsold in one day what the Wii U sold on the first week of availability and means absolutely nothing.

Yes, I'll keep saying this until people get it: launch sales mean absolutely nothing for the future of a console and are only indicative of manufacturing and logistics ability from the manufacturing company. It does not mean anything else. If Sony had made 2 millions in time of release it would have still sold out. I would start raising an eyebrow if they had managed to put 4M in stores at launch day but then I would be asking if where the hell had they been hiding them these last year because that would be an insane number of consoles produced.

Actually, launch sales in the first couple of days of availability mean quite a lot for the short term viability of a product. A fantastic launch is the best of marketing tools, and it will dictate things like retail floor space, supply chain support, post-launch production and so on. If a launch wasn't extremely important, companies wouldn't go to such great pains to make them run as smoothly as possible.

If the PS4 had sold out only after being available for a week or two, then the launch wouldn't have been as successful or as significant. The fact that they sold out immediately sends a much stronger signal to all of its business partners.

Originally Posted by Dextro

If Microsoft has 1M consoles ready to put in stores shelves by launch date I can assure you they'll sell out as well. It's just the nature of the game. (btw, I seriously doubt that MS can match that number given the fact that they have backed out of previously announced launch dates for certain countries due to stock)

We should know by the end of the week, but I think that Microsoft has about 1 million units world wide at launch. Sony should have about 2.5 million world wide by the end of next week.

Originally Posted by Dextro

It's seriously impressive and I can't wait to see how the EU numbers turn out but (just to reiterate) it means absolutely nothing about long term viability of the system. Remember the original Wii? It was sold out all the way from the Black Friday release date all the way into the next year and that didn't particularly help the abyssal third party support for the system throughout it's lifetime. Sure it sold like a beast but the games didn't and as a gamer I'm interested in games, not which system sells the most.

The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.

When people say third party support, though, they generally mean AAA titles and non-shovelware.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Actually, launch sales in the first couple of days of availability mean quite a lot for the short term viability of a product. A fantastic launch is the best of marketing tools, and it will dictate things like retail floor space, supply chain support, post-launch production and so on. If a launch wasn't extremely important, companies wouldn't go to such great pains to make them run as smoothly as possible.

If the PS4 had sold out only after being available for a week or two, then the launch wouldn't have been as successful or as significant. The fact that they sold out immediately sends a much stronger signal to all of its business partners.

But they ALWAYS sell out. Even the Wii U sold out. Heck, the only "console" that I remember not selling out at launch was probably the Ouya and that's a completely different game. If the PS4 had managed to not sell out at launch either Sony needed to bow out of the race or something was going very wrong with the economy. 1929 crash levels of wrong.

What really matters is the Launch "window" sales (first 3 months). Those are the ones that dictate retail space, third-party support, etc.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

We should know by the end of the week, but I think that Microsoft has about 1 million units world wide at launch. Sony should have about 2.5 million world wide by the end of next week.

If those numbers pan out (and right now I wouldn't be surprised if they did) Sony shows an outstanding logistical ability. I'm impressed.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The Wii did have a lot of third party support. That support was different from the PS360, but the user base of the Wii was different as well.

I wouldn't call publishing what amounts to Shovelware and refusing to publish/doing fairly limited runs of genuinely great games third-party support. There were companies that made some money selling to clueless parents looking for Wii games but that's about it. Some publishers thought it was an el-dourado but quickly realised that working with Nintendo was way harder than the peanuts they were getting from clueless shoppers buying crap.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by GDB

When people say third party support, though, they generally mean AAA titles and non-shovelware.

But why? Third party support should be determined by the interests of its customer base. The Wii was largely fueled by casual gamers who weren't necessarily interested in the latest AAA shooter and the like, so isn't it reasonable that those end up elsewhere?

Didn't a lot of Call of Duty games show up on the Wii? How well did those sell compared to the PS360 versions?

Originally Posted by Dextro

But they ALWAYS sell out. Even the Wii U sold out. Heck, the only "console" that I remember not selling out at launch was probably the Ouya and that's a completely different game. If the PS4 had managed to not sell out at launch either Sony needed to bow out of the race or something was going very wrong with the economy. 1929 crash levels of wrong.

What really matters is the Launch "window" sales (first 3 months). Those are the ones that dictate retail space, third-party support, etc.

Selling out at launch doesn't mean within the first day. You're correct that the first few months and the first post-Christmas period will give us more meaningful figures, but it doesn't take away from the impact of launch-day sales. Assuming 4 weeks for shipping and distribution, and the November 29 stock should be anywhere from 2.25M - 3M units.

Originally Posted by Dextro

If those numbers pan out (and right now I wouldn't be surprised if they did) Sony shows an outstanding logistical ability. I'm impressed.

Sony probably started PS4 production in August; and with 750k-1M units produced per month. The EU should have the same size launch stock as NA: 1 million units. Add an extra 500K for NA restock and other non-EU launches, and 2.5M seems to be a reasonable estimate.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

But why? Third party support should be determined by the interests of its customer base. The Wii was largely fueled by casual gamers who weren't necessarily interested in the latest AAA shooter and the like, so isn't it reasonable that those end up elsewhere?

Didn't a lot of Call of Duty games show up on the Wii? How well did those sell compared to the PS360 versions?

Let's take a look at the VG Chartz numbers for Black Ops for example (take them with a grain of salt though, VG Chartz isn't 100% reliable with these things):

Wii: 1.26m

PS3: 11.91m

360: 13.8m

COD: Modern Warfare 3:

Wii: 0.65m

PS3: 12.53m

360: 13.99m

I wouldn't call the Wii versions stellar by any stretch of the imagination.

EDIT: actually, out of the Wii Top Sellers list, you don't see much third party games besides some notable exceptions like the Just Dance franchise.

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Let's take a look at the VG Chartz numbers for Black Ops for example (take them with a grain of salt though, VG Chartz isn't 100% reliable with these things)

You mean a huge grain of salt. Come on, man, most of the numbers are made up on the spot. The maintainer admitted as much.

[FlareKnight]

Good for the PS4 really that it's getting off on a good foot. Certainly better to start off with good sales than play catchup the whole time.

As to the Wii, system sales were never a problem. The problem was having so few interesting games that it ended up in my closet for months between uses.

[Jazzrat]

Someone decided to test PS4 remote play over LTE network. Granted, most people probably doesn't have home connection as fast as his but it's still a very interesting application for
the future.

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

As to the Wii, system sales were never a problem. The problem was having so few interesting games that it ended up in my closet for months between uses.

That's only true past 2010, though. Plenty of good games for that system, even if you don't like party games. I should know; last I counted I have over 30 Wii games.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Benoit

That's only true past 2010, though. Plenty of good games for that system, even if you don't like party games. I should know; last I counted I have over 30 Wii games.

People said the same thing about the Vita. I haven't even finished my backlog for Vita, but there are people who keep saying Vita has no game.

So you are having over 30 Wii games doesn't mean much, really.

[Lexxus]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

People said the same thing about the Vita. I haven't even finished my backlog for Vita, but there are people who keep saying Vita has no game.

So you are having over 30 Wii games doesn't mean much, really.

Probably because most people think that the system don't have any system seller. Thus, people saying it don't have any games and people are not buying it. People are not going to buy a system just to play PSone or PSP games. Also, Vita has a high attach rate thanks to PS+ compare to 3DS with just 3.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Lexxus

Also, Vita has a high attach rate thanks to PS+ compare to 3DS with just 3.

I'm pretty sure I heard the Vita's attach rate excludes PS+. Could be wrong, though.

[DragoonKain3]

In particular with me, I have bought like 10+ Vita games already on PSN without even owning a Vita. How's that for attach rate?

Seriously, that PSN store is scary. I can resist Steam sales, but I religiously check PSN like twice weekly for the free PS+ games, and I end up buying Vita games on sale even though I can't play it. XD

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

In particular with me, I have bought like 10+ Vita games already on PSN without even owning a Vita. How's that for attach rate?

Seriously, that PSN store is scary. I can resist Steam sales, but I religiously check PSN like twice weekly for the free PS+ games, and I end up buying Vita games on sale even though I can't play it. XD

Gotta ask this, "Why?", especially when you can't play them.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Good for the PS4 really that it's getting off on a good foot. Certainly better to start off with good sales than play catchup the whole time.

Software sales have been very good as well. I believe that some PS4 games have been sold out as well.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I'm pretty sure I heard the Vita's attach rate excludes PS+. Could be wrong, though.

It should. The Vita has a really high attach rate because it's mostly owned by hardcore gamers. The fewer casual gamers on a platform, the better the attach rate.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Gotta ask this, "Why?", especially when you can't play them.

It's free, and you never know if you might pick up a Vita in the future.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Gotta ask this, "Why?", especially when you can't play them.

Seeing them on sale (especially with PS+ discount), I'm like, dam that's so very much tempting since I KNOW I'm going to buy a PSV sometime in the future. Then just last month PSN had this 10 bucks return on every 50 bucks spent (essentially a FURTHER 20% off), and next thing I know, my wallet was like 150 bucks lighter. Thank god I ran out of stuff that I could find to buy, or else it would've been easily 300. lol

And that's not counting the PSP games I repurchased just so I can have it on my future PSV.