2011-08-16, 19:37 | Link #21 | |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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EDIT: Obviously the game also made Braun let Moeka live because they also wanted to have psycho Nae for the impact. But as I said before, that would actually be unreasonable since Braun would've known that Moeka would be killed by Rounders, so trying to explain Braun letting Moeka live because he felt sorry for using her doesn't really fly.
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2011-08-17, 09:56 | Link #22 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
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Age: 37
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Honestly, I have hard time to consider Braun's behavior as "feeling sorry for Moeka" considering he was pretty much nonchalant while killing her in the anime.
Perhaps I'm a bit too focused on how he expressed himself, but it was a tad difficult to sense empathy from him at that moment. Also, I still can't see any proper reasoning for his action, because only Braun knows about Moeka's betrayal. For all they know, Moeka could potentially live on alone or stay with the member labs (of course, we watchers know her fate was sealed in that world line anyway. I don't think Moeka was even considered as a threat among the rounders or for SERN, not they would expect her to betray them, otherwise, she wouldn't be able to keep company to Okabe. Of course, that's my interpretation of the elements given in the anime and usual "your milage may vary" can be applied here. However, I'm still not convinced entirely, regarding the plot purpose of that incident, aside of skipping Nae's scene.
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2011-08-17, 18:25 | Link #24 | |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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If you consider Rounders as an organisation, if they demand that their members die after a mission is complete, that says the organisation simply doesn't trust ANY of its members and what they do or did, so it is illogical to think that Rounders doesn't know what Braun is up to nor won't keep track of who he recruited or how he used them. Secondly if they go to the point of killing even *successful* members, then it should be reasoned that they simply considers *everyone* who knows and are involved in the retrieval of the IBN5100 a potential threat or leak, so whether Moeka betrayed them or not wouldn't have been an issue (as stated by Braun anyway). By these reasoning, even if Moeka doesn't commit suicide she *has* to be killed by Rounders because from the other timelines we know she knows quite a bit about Rounders and its relationship with SERN, as well as the primary mission. Now in the game although they try to write it such that Braun felt a little sympathy towards Moeka (or at least some attachment, otherwise they wouldn't have converge the timelines to have Braun accepted her in the Steins;Gate line), but given what we do know about the extent Rounders goes to to keep its mission a secret it is simply illogical to think that Braun would let Moeka live out of any feelings towards her and hoping she lives, since he has to know she was going to die either way (either suicide or be killed by Rounders), especially if he is so afraid of the reach of Rounders that he never quit due to his fear for Nae's safety he must be sure that there is no way that Moeka would survive. So that is already a conflict in his actions/goal. If you have to say that Braun didn't kill Moeka out of feelings for her then it can only be because 1) he has and loves his daughter Nae, so Moeka's attachment to him overlapped with his own parental instincts causing him to feel something towards her, or 2) he doesn't want the possibility of Nae seeing him kill anyone; these feelings are the only reason I can see why he didn't pull the trigger on Moeka in his house in the game. Now number 1 is already proven to not work since he must know Rounders would go at Moeka, this leaves 2. However this makes the game setting in complete conflict with his goals of protecting Nae, and it also makes no sense to say he felt sorry for Moeka so he doesn't kill her - the way that Braun took all the lab members somewhere else should be the first thing he wants to do if he wants to protect Nae, so the anime firstly handled this much more rationally. I think the game only wrote that setting just so that Nae would see her father die in front of Moeka and Okabe which give reason for her to go psycho in the future and come back to kill Moeka - in other words it is purely contrived for the sake of making psycho Nae come true. Also another possible reason which would lead Braun to kill Moeka would be he sees "tying up lose ends" would give Rounders less reasons to go after his family. All in all I think the anime handle this situation MUCH better than the game. Psycho loli was fun, but plot wise it really doesn't fit nor make sense given the settings after some careful thinking.
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2011-08-18, 14:13 | Link #26 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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What bugs me a lot is how they made Braun hardly empathic whatsoever. Regardless how "certain" she would be killed in the end, from the perspective of someone such like Braun, it hardly looked like some mercy kill whatsoever. The game wasn't a writing monument in that scene either, but at least it doesn't make Braun dragging Moeka to the grave for reasons like this. Furthermore, we have no clear picture how rounders are organized, especially that Braun was managing everyone with -just mails-. That alone makes the tracking of each member far more annoying. Of course, it is very likely that SERN could potentially tail information circulation with Braun's phone, and I don't discard the fact that Moeka was likely to be killed by SERN goon. However, it doesn't mean she wouldn't be able to live a bit on her own or with Okabe's company (in a CHARACTER perspective. As viewer perspective, we knew already her fate is sealed anyway). As I implied: the fact someone is "destined to die" is hardly an excuse to kill them especially in such fashion. That's not even close to last rites etc. But hey, that's how I saw it, and never said "VN is superior": I would have less problem if Braun in the anime would apologize and "mercy kill" her, instead of "Traitors die, end of the story". Perhaps the directing was awkward I dunno, but that approach was shown in a flat fashion, imho.
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2011-08-18, 18:27 | Link #27 | ||||
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Last edited by houkoholic; 2011-08-18 at 18:40. |
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2011-08-19, 13:36 | Link #28 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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you know at the ending of the game where okabe roll can capsule for metal doll shouldnt the attractor field attractor that too since the first okabe experinced rolling out metal doll
could be just a plothole like small shit dont get attracted lol |
2011-08-21, 08:06 | Link #29 | |
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Braun never struck me as a likable character, which is why I found it easy to accept the FB reveal. It's no crime for an antagonist to be a genuinely bad guy. The key is to be able to get the antagonist's motives, even if they're not particularly easy to empathize or sympathize with (when considered in the light of the antagonist's actions). And we have that, at least, with Braun, as houkoholic pointed out.
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2011-08-31, 18:57 | Link #31 |
I'm a sucker for Harem
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Any speculation on why Nae was taken out?
I suspect that Nae traveling via Time Leap is too far fetched as the Nae in the Future can NEVER know when the Nae in the past received the message. So hence it is IMPOSSIBLE that Nae can use the Time Leap.
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2011-08-31, 20:36 | Link #32 | |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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I think time constrain is still the main reason, but like I've argued before even not considering the time constrain it just seems unlikely and contrived that when Okabe and Moeka confronted Mr. Braun that the overtly protective Braun would even create the chance for Nae to see himself commit suicide and/or let Moeka live in the first place.
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2011-09-01, 18:10 | Link #37 |
seiyuu maniac
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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The seed for Psycho Nae existence in the world line where Moeka sends a d-mail to herself notifying the location of the IBN5100, it's got nothing to do with True End or not. In fact you have to see Psycho Nae kill Moeka while going for the Mayuri/Kirisu/True End in the game, the story to how Nae goes psycho though is triggered after taking Braun's cellphone and seeing Psycho Nae knifed and killed Moeka Okabe (the player) gets to choose whether to find out what happened to Nae before sending the d-mail to cancel Moeka's d-mail, and no matter which option you choose the story then progresses to the Mayuri/Kurisu/TE common route.
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2011-09-13, 17:24 | Link #39 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Age: 30
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Wow! They really changed it within the time constraints. Here are the ones that stood out most for me.
1. The talk with Mayuri in the lab (I think he just sent her off to get supplies in the vn?) That was really touching with more hints of retained memories between time lines. Those exchanges about what Kurisu was/is to Okabe made a good sendoff. On another note, that saber was a much different length than I expected lol. 2. Standoff with Nakabachi (threatening both or just Nakabachi) I am more appreciative of the anime's method in hindsight. Without memories of spending time with Okabe, imo it would be harder to swallow that you go looking for someone that threatened to kill you. It still hurt to watch him dig into his wound for more blood. 3. Less separation between epilogue and credits. (Suzuha starts the time machine and it rolls to a black screen credits.) Highlighting that there was a chance for a miserable future did a lot for me in the visual novel. Another Heaven by Kanako Itou was easier to appreciate while wondering whether or not they had reached Steins Gate. 4. Epilogue (Mayurii is only present in lab for epilogue, and her search for Okabe is only mentioned within dialogue) You miss out on details of events that took place during Okabe's stay in the hospital, so there's less build up to the final scene with Kurisu. (At the time of playing the VN, I didn't really care so much what happened to Rukako and company, but it did make a difference seeing the events a second time around.) 4. Final Scene Seeing her clutch the pin badge in her hand did justice for me. I can't remember whether or not you actually see that in the vn. However, there was more speculation with the dialogue. She still says "It's not Christina or assistant", but they don't have same level of startled response to the mysterious words. Instead, Okabe readily hands her the badge with a welcome back. |
2012-01-09, 14:42 | Link #40 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
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A bit of backstory on Faris' dad, Dr. Nakabachi and Hashida Suzu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YWUt...feature=relmfu I just found out about the drama CD's. I was always wondering why the time line would sometimes change to ridiculous lengths by a seemingly innocent mail (Faris route ending). Going on the info seen in this part of the drama cd, we can see possible links to the consequences that Faris' dad's death, or survival, would have had on the future, since Doctor Nakabachi's thesis is a major plot point. If Nakabachi could keep on researching and got a time machine, he could go back in time and screw things up, after all. If Okabe accidentally causes this, then the timeline would diverge a huge amount with just 1 mail. I don't know, though. My thinking is pretty shallow at the moment, but it's food for thought, at least. On a side note, I'm hoping that further watching of drama cd's might clear things up more, since I'm still wondering about the activation of Reading Steiner when Okabe was 8. I'd rather not accept that Mayuri's wish changed the timeline, so that Okabe wouldn't die (Fantasy Elements in My Scientific Time Travel Visual Novel?). I'd rather accept a theory like Mayuri becoming a Future Badass, and going back in time to save Okabe or something like that. EDIT: Hah. I didn't get any further important info on what I wanted to know, but some awesome things and character building definitely happen in all of the CD's. I recommend them. It's still nice to have some extra background information, though. And even if I don't get any more info, it's still Steins;gate that I'm listening to. Last edited by MracY; 2012-01-09 at 15:55. Reason: Youtube link wasn't working |
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