2009-06-10, 21:58 | Link #1181 | |
Endless Nine
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In a certain tropical island
Age: 38
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2009-06-10, 22:00 | Link #1182 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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You have a point on the seagulls but your theory has also a weak point. Beatrice uses the red truth by saying "I will kill you". Now I can imagine Beatrice being the manifestation of a Volcano. Volcanos are named and such. But Beatrice being a defective Boiler room?
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2009-06-10, 22:15 | Link #1186 | |
Senior Member
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If she had set the boiler to explode, on purpose, and then it went off, wouldn't that be the same as if she had pulled the trigger herself? If you rig a something to malfunction, with the intention of killing someone, that's murder. So her saying "Battler, I will kill you" doesn't specify that she was right there, waiting to kill him, it just means that, through her will, Battler will die. That will could have been decided and put into motion long before. Be like a mob hit, with a car bomb. Also, the island isn't exactly very big. It's only 2km long, which is about a mile and a half. A volcano would cause a lot more damage than a quarter of a mile or so, to remove the mansion, leave Kuwadorian untouched, and make the whole island still pretty only a mere 12 years later. Spoiler for Episode 4 and Higurashi:
Last edited by Squirrellord; 2009-06-10 at 22:31. |
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2009-06-10, 22:28 | Link #1189 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Spoiler for EP 4:
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2009-06-10, 23:33 | Link #1190 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Spoiler for Ep3:
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Spoiler for Ep4 Beatrice:
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2009-06-11, 00:00 | Link #1191 | |||
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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Not to mention that the seating arrangement should have placed Ange as the lowest of the cousins, but consequently there would be an empty space before the parents who married into the family. Quote:
(Sorry for pasting from the script, but it's the easiest way.) Quote:
Typhoons often result in landslides, and we know that the mansion had been around for far more than 12 years previously. There's no reason a mansion would sink to the bottom of a bunch of cliffs just because nobody was using it. Consequently, the landslide that caused the formation of the cliffs was an unusual event, and very likely was related to the typhoon. Since the typhoon was slated to end that day, the most obvious time for the landslide to occur would have been right when Battler died, pretty much. Kuwadorian may have been located just so that the landslide "missed" it. |
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2009-06-11, 00:08 | Link #1192 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I don't think the First Twilights are necessarily by the same person each time. Consider:
1) In episode 1, the bodies are placed in a (marked) shed. The shed is locked, but the key is outside the shed. Thus, there's no "closed room mystery." The bodies have smashed or half-smashed heads. 2) In episode 2, the bodies are in the chapel. The chapel key is in Maria's possession, but it isn't in the room with the victims (meaning the only thing making this a closed room is the red text that has to be navigated, and it can be). The victims are posed rather morbidly, appear to have died without realizing they were dying, and have had their stomachs cut open. The door is marked, but it also has text that wasn't there in ep1. 3) In episode 3, the bodies are in a closed room chain. These are closed rooms, or at least they have the appearance of such. The victims, however, are simply shot. All doors are marked. 4) In episode 4, if indeed the dining room is the First Twilight, everyone was apparently just shot to death at close range in the head with a shotgun or something. The room is not even remotely closed, there are witnesses, and there are survivors who are supposedly taken hostage. No magic symbols or marks appear at all. Now I ask you: What makes you believe these are the work of the same person? The magic symbols? Consider this: the magic symbols are located OUTSIDE! Anyone who wanted to take credit for the first series of murders has 6 or so hours to do whatever they want, and that could include moving bodies or painting occult symbols. The person who painted the magic circle is not the person who killed the victims! And now, some interesting facts about your killers: The Head-Smasher Gouger Person: Maria trusts this person. See ep1 Ninth Twilight and her death in ep4. Is this the person posing as Beatrice? If so, it's ironic, because despite posing as Beatrice, they seem to care not the slightest bit for the ritual... The "Shooter": Someone is gunning people down with clean, efficient shots. This person appears to be the one who favors elaborate closed rooms. Killings by other killers don't seem terribly concerned with this. For examples, see the ep1 Second Twilight, ep3 First Twilight, and ep4 Ninth Twilight. The Poisoner: Someone is killing in a way that seems to leave the body mostly intact. They have some means of sedating and/or poisoning people to death. This seems to suggest they have ways to ensure that people take the poison without putting up too much of a fight... this killer may be getting co-opted by... The Staker: May not be any of these people. May not even be a killer. After all, it'd be much easier to follow the killers around and stake the bodies afterwards. If this person's goal is to make the murders appear to be a ritual, it might be easier to just let them work and then shove some stakes in. Poisoner may be involved because some people are killed and staked in non-fatal areas with no signs of other wounds. Now who could be doing this? |
2009-06-11, 00:48 | Link #1194 | |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Jessica could still be the poisoner (would tie in with my theory that she poisoned Battler and Maria in the guest house in Ep4). Gohda, Kumasawa or Shannon could take the poisoner slot as well, since all of them prepare food/tea/water at various times. Kanon could fill the Gouger spot, poisoning and shooting don't seem his style, and his 'weapon of choice' in magical scenes is a slashing weapon. Though pretty much anyone could be the gouger. Hideyoshi and Rudolph both seem to know their way around firearms pretty well (Rudolph doesn't live very long in any of the games though...). Staker needs to be someone who generally lives to the late game, or else can fake their death and move about unsupervised. Hard not to put that one a cousin or maybe Nanjo. The servants and parents don't have any consistent pattern of living or dying, aside from Rudolph and Kyrie generally dying in the first half of the game or so. |
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2009-06-11, 01:02 | Link #1195 |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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If something's poisoned, my guess is it's the wine.
Other than the landslide theory, my other "main" idea for EP4 is that the head-smash victims were poisoned first, hence Jessica's "they got me" line, and the fact that a few people didn't even get up when they were getting shot at. |
2009-06-11, 01:23 | Link #1196 |
*cackle*
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 29
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Changing the topic for a second, sorry if this has been asked, but does anyone have any ideas as to what Ange saw on the display cabinet? It could be anything, but I assume it must have something to do with beato and battler because of what Ange says.
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2009-06-11, 03:02 | Link #1197 |
Member
Join Date: May 2009
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The current theory seems to be that it is Sakutaro's 'vessel'. Although how or why it's there we can only speculate. After this is also when Ange confronts Maria in the Golden Land and says she can ressurect him. At one point Ange says the doll isn't needed, it's just that Maria beleives so strongly that he is gone that he can't be resurrected. Finding the doll would explain how she is able to change Maria's mind so quickly. I'm relatively new here so I'm hoping I've got my facts straight.
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2009-06-11, 03:35 | Link #1198 | |
*cackle*
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 29
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Anyway, thank you. |
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2009-06-11, 04:33 | Link #1199 | ||||
Senior Member
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Spoiler for Response:
This doesn't really disproove your theory, but I don't really think Krauss or Natsuhi are distant from Jessica, they just expect a lot from her, and there have been several moments where they've showed love for Jessica. Well, if Kinzo was indeed raping Jessica, I don't think she would be the same. She shows fear for Kinzo, but at the same time insults him often. I don't think if someone raped you, you would so activly insult them, rather I think just hearing his name would cause her to just freeze. Of course, with this, you could say Jessica is in denial, or left those memories to her Beatrice personality. (You said this later, so...) I just wanted to point out, this is a contradiction in your reasoning. You say that Krauss is distant from Jessica, but then later say that he loves her enough to go to the extreme of killing to protect her. It's also the same for if Jessica killed Kinzo. Krauss would have to love her a lot to protect her. Spoiler for Response:
I don't think Kanon acts as if he knows Jessica is Beato, otherwise I think he would be a lot more cold to her. However, I do not think it would be possible for Jessica to give Maria the letter. For one thing, Battler and George confirm her alibi, she was with them the entire time. For another thing, even assuming Jessica said she needed to use the bathroom, and ran out to give Maria the umbrella, it probably still wouldn't be unnoticed. Since the wind is blowing so hard, the rain won't fall straight down, so I'm sure Jessica would get wet still, despite having an umbrella. Not only that, her shoes would also be wet, from walking around outside. And, if she toke the time to dry herself, it would take such a long time that Battler or George might have thought about how Jessica was gone for such a long time. Of course, these are all just inferences, as there is no solid evidence. Spoiler for Response:
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They would need actual physical evidence to convict Eva. An arguement of "She was there and survived" wouldn't hold up, and it definitly wouldn't give anyone the death penalty. As for Ange, how would she do this? She was being completly bound by Eva. It would be very hard for her to go to Rokkenjima while Eva was alive. And, even if she somehow got away, Eva would have all the guards and such after Ange. Not only that, but at that point, Ange probably didn't really have money to throw around - Eva controlled it all. And, I find it hard to believe that a volcanic eruption wouldn't make it into the news. Quote:
Kasumi kills Kyrie and takes her place on the island, carrying out the killings. The biggest reason I have to think this is a contradiction in red text (or possibly just a mistake by Ryukishi - it wouldn't be the first time I made some huge theory around a mistake. I'm looking at you, 1.46 kilometers per hour.) Eva-Beatrice says about Kyrie: "She didn't tell anyone the reason she changed her mind, nor was it written!" However, afterwards, we are told that Kyrie told Rudolph about the cigarette butt, which would be her reason for changing her mind. http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2452/umineko2.png This completly contradicts the red truth. With my theory though, there is no contradiction. Another suspicious factor is Kyrie's execute TIP. "The stomach isn't a fatal spot." Quote:
Spoiler for Episode 4:
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2009-06-11, 05:06 | Link #1200 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Remember that the whole deal with Kyrie was STILL Battler's theory. There is still a leeway that Kyrie could convince Rudolf without any clear explanation. Since both know each other and trust each other implicitely, it doesn't contradict the red truth.
That said, Kasumi being able to fool Rudolf might be a bit too much (considering her persona, I'm not even sure if she would be able to be subtle in that kind of things).
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