2008-08-20, 17:55 | Link #201 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Finally finished reading...I see many people have already finished reading a long time ago. Not in the deducing mood yet, so here are my thoughts about this story:
Spoiler for Main Story: Definitely better than 1/2...but Ryukishi07's bad habit of over-describing is back.:
Spoiler for tea party: Funny at start, super development in the middle:
Spoiler for ??? (Hidden Tea Party): Some time after 1986...:
Spoiler for TIPS: more afterthoughts:
It has been an awesome episode. So until next time, "see you again, have a nice day."
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Last edited by Rias; 2008-08-20 at 18:45. |
2008-08-21, 00:06 | Link #203 |
Asmodeus Saigo (>v<)/
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I would say if I don't know Ryukishi-sensei better, I'd say he had given up on Umineko...
Due to the fact that EP3 sounds more screwed up than ever... With the Stakes being NEET now and Some other random creeps running around on loose ... Ginzo: Screw that, I'mma outta here |
2008-08-21, 00:28 | Link #205 | |
霊夢→デレ
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: NYC, NY
Age: 46
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Quote:
They "happened" in the eyes of the Witches Don't worry for the third arc of Higurashi... people thinking that as well
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2008-08-21, 00:40 | Link #206 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I guess the ultimate question is: If the meta world does behave like schrodinger's cat theory, then
Spoiler:
That would make the story quite boring actually. Also, seems that there are much mention that ワルギリア = Virgil. As ウェルギリウス = Vergilius, whom of course, is derived from Divine Comedy/Dante's Inferno.
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2008-08-21, 01:21 | Link #207 |
does not compute
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I know that kuma (熊 ) = bear, but that's about as far as I got with that one. ;
I never really understood the Schrodinger's cat theory. Ehe. Although, from what I can grasp of it, it might presumably cause things to make sense in the witches' 'claims' versus reality, if it came to that. |
2008-08-21, 01:44 | Link #208 | |
Gomen asobase desuwa!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 43
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Quote:
George W. Bush is the President of the United States. He is the dumbest president ever. The red colored texts mean that the witches' and their minions' statements are true. Uncolored text are opinions. Come to think of it, I wonder how this will be done in anime form? Red texted Japanese subtitles? |
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2008-08-21, 03:30 | Link #209 |
No patience for fools
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paris, France
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Schödinger's cat is an illustration of quantum theory. You have a cat in a box, with a mechanism to kill it at a random time - completely random, in a millisecond or in a million years. The box is hermetic. Having no information about what's inside, the cat is in a state of flux: not alive, not dead, since you don't know. Once you open the box, that state of flux is over: you've observed and therefore perturbed the system, but gained information - but you don't know the state of the cat before you opened the box. The cat could have died, found Beatrice's gold, ate Maria's rose, pooped on each of the stakes' and the siestas' heads individually and turned itself inside out for all you know. All you know is what you observed, and when you observed you disturbed the system, possibly modifying the result. Meaning human consciousness can theoretically have an effect on the universe.
That's the theory. |
2008-08-21, 03:33 | Link #210 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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The schrodinger's cat theory is used in Umineko as a visual theory to determine a case with several truths.
Walgiria explained that until the "box is open", the cat may or may not be alive (she used the example of a cathode ray tube of a television, which may or may not contain a gremlin). In a case where you don't have any confirmation, several statements can be considered as "truth" until you actually open the box. This is very different to the "probatio diabolica" as you force the fact that a fact cannot be discarded as long as there is no proof against that fact. In the schrodinger theory, you are actually allowing several truths to be real, and they decrease in numbers over time, as you probably gather more and more clues/points about the case, thus, like said earlier, the observation is lead to have consequence to a said unclear case. So, in Beato and Battler witty battle, BOTH magic and science sides are true until any of the side deliver the smashing blow. Quote:
Quote:
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2008-08-21, 07:02 | Link #214 |
Negikamo
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Spoiler:
Now, it must be reminded that Battler's ~ and most likely our's, too ~ prime goal is denial of magic as a whole, and to prove that all murders are done by mere humans. Come to think about it, by denying magic we'll be getting rid of these beautiful clothes from these murderous scenes that invloves magics... No bravery fightings, No last touching moments of lovers. No Stake Sisters and Siesta too. There waits us will be hidous scenes where brothers killing each other and their children for their own benefit, and Beatrice won't be there to take accusation of crimes. ... and, to make it worse, that'll be where we'll be heading in Answer arcs, unless Ryu-chan decides to make hell of twist to story. EP3 made me realise this, and I now actually think it might be a good idea to surrender to Beato. |
2008-08-21, 07:12 | Link #215 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Quote:
Until we can prove that a 19th person (or more) that isn't a witch exists, it WILL be ugly (as it is hardly a matter of coincidence or accidents anyway. I honestly cannot understand how it would be an "accident" in the first 6 sacrifices case in ep3). Thankfully, the cousins are absolutely unable to pull the strings considering their range of actions and alibi in the 3 episodes until Ryukishi is just reversing more cuckoo twists.
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2008-08-21, 07:28 | Link #216 |
does not compute
Join Date: Aug 2008
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So, if I'm understanding this:
Schrodinger's cat theory: there are several things which could be true, based on probability (in the experiment, whether the element decays or not). As long as the true state of affairs (whether the cat is alive or dead) is unknown, the cat is both alive and dead simultaneously due to this. It is only when one is confirmed that this one becomes truth. However, by seeking to confirm this, a person interferes with the experiment, and could have influenced it just by that. ... Ah, it's still kind of confusing to apply... Still can't really wrap my head around probatio diabolica, other than it's 'an impossible proof'. =/ These things seem a bit over my head... |
2008-08-21, 07:45 | Link #217 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Correct. The theory implies that the cat is simultaneously alive and dead.
If it was the "probatio diabolica", it would be "the cat is alive until you prove it is dead!" which is used when you have absolutely no mean to prove it (vice versa, you can claim the cat is dead until there is a proof it is alive). The theory makes the vision far much more broad in such case, and observations and random applications/interventions might change the outcome/result the observer seeked for.
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2008-08-21, 08:20 | Link #218 |
does not compute
Join Date: Aug 2008
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The difference being that there's a way to prove it (or a way to prove it without contradicting the situation) with Schrodinger's, but not the probation diabolica?
... I sort of get Schrodinger's cat now. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. It seems to be more applicable to Higurashi, in any case? Well, pertaining to Rika/Bernkastel's view about 'a single piece changing the outcome of a world', or the various observations or actions that can lead to certain outcomes. Actually, there was a reference to Schrodinger in one of Bernkastel's poems, wasn't there? Although I really don't know if it's significant at all... |
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