Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Jarmel]

That ending. Oh god that ending. Next couple of episodes should be amazing. Declaration of war indeed.

[taichi-kun]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Spoiler for comparison to the novels:

Well, Yu Xuan, the girl Sydonay fought, is supposed to give Sydonay a hard time in the battle because she is supposed to be his nemesis from thousands of years ago. Sydonay barely survived if not for the Shintetsu Nyoi, which is virtually indestructible.

But

Spoiler for comparison to the novels:

in the novels... did she die too?

bel peol-Dark Yuuji pairing

[Chaos2Frozen]

It's kinda...Weird/Interesting to see Bel Peol acting all girly Must be the voice...

The ending with Yuji returning to Misaki City I think marks the 'Real Starting Point' of this season, my guess is that he's taking one last trip down memory lane before declaring open war with his demon army.

[Senshigeia]

Saw it just now.

Well, I don't know: is it just me or I am finding this series more full of action than the second one? Everyone's complaining about how the story is ate the same point it started and not going forward. I am glued to the screen from the first minute to the last, and I can't wait for next week's episode!

Anyhow, I love Yuji's voice. So sexy and deep! The fighting scene in the beginning was fantastic, but a little confusing, because I didn't know who the girl really was.

I think the story will truly begin with Shana's encounter with Yuji/SoF, but we cannot expect anything else; These two episodes just give us an idea of what's been happening on both sides, and what changes they had.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Senshigeia

Well, I don't know: is it just me or I am finding this series more full of action than the second one? Everyone's complaining about how the story is ate the same point it started and not going forward. I am glued to the screen from the first minute to the last, and I can't wait for next week's episode!

It's not the plot is lacking movement but that much of the plot movement, in the anime mind you (Not the LN), lacks the necessary background information and build up that should've been there in season 2. Any Shana fan would have been pleased to see Snake of the Festival talking this episode, but uh... Unlike the LN we don't even really know who he is, and it just seems like Yuiji is off doing random things with a deep voice. Basically without prior knowledge it's just not that engaging for people without any knowledge. Of course some people's experiences will differ, but just speaking for those who are bothered.

I could care less if there's no action, I just care if the anime makes sense and has proper storytelling, which it absolutely does not.

[MeoTwister5]

I'd assume right now that the first two episodes are the clam before the storm. Yuji's return will probably contain his exposition bomb before war comes.

[Hooves]

Everyone, this episode proves it. If you grow your hair long enough, you can use it as a shield for attacks. But Yuji must have been pretty quick to get on a train all the way from Bal Masque's HQ..

[Kristen]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I'd assume right now that the first two episodes are the clam before the storm. Yuji's return will probably contain his exposition bomb before war comes.

I know nothing of how the novels go, but my guess is that JC Staff is doing this right and are giving each novel the appropriate amount of episodes in order to remedy their disaster of a SI. As such, seeing how this is the intro arc for the entire series's conflict, I'd assume it'd be like 6 episodes, similar to the first novel's adaptation. And just judging how they do past things, the exposition will probably be the last episode.
AKA, I predict we don't see that for another 4 episodes.

Anyways, I haven't been excited for new Shana episodes since II episode 01. But this was the second straight good episode in a row. 10.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I could care less if there's no action, I just care if the anime makes sense and has proper storytelling, which it absolutely does not.

I think this is rather harsh. Throwing people into the deep end and gradually revealing the details of what's happening isn't exactly an unheard-of storytelling technique, and I wouldn't say that it's "not proper". They're banking on the fact that people are already invested enough in the franchise, and will be willing to stick out some confusion before the full truth is revealed. This is a way of building tension and keeping viewers guessing (even if some people already know what's going on, whether from having read the novels or spoiling themselves on their contents). Of course, whether you like this approach or not is totally up to you... but I think saying the "anime absolutely does not [have] proper storytelling" is a bit of an over-statement. This is a valid narrative approach, and I'm sure everything will make sense in the composite once all the pieces come into place, even for us anime-only viewers. It's hard to judge the merits until you see the full picture and how it all comes together.

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Yuji's return will probably contain his exposition bomb before war comes.

That is the point, guys. It is understandable that some of you are lamenting the lack of build-up about Yuji's latest appearance and his another deep voice. Thus, you may experience some difficulties in understanding the plot.

All that I can be allowed to say is that the reasons behind the Yuji's transformation will be explained in the next few episodes. Correct me if I am wrong. For this first two epiosdes, J.C. Staff has been quite faithful to the novel content. If you read the novel yourself, the reasons are similarly revealed in later parts.

In short, be patient and you will soon understand it.

[liquidblueocean]

A small part of the novels went missing? Outrageous!



Just remember folks, if some large sections of some of the novels are missing then JC has done the right thing... they can't fit everything into a measly 24 episodes. If they tried, it would be horrible. Instead, the most important story sections will get the focus they deserve, making it more enjoyable for all.

It's better than nothing at all! I'm enjoying it for sure.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think this is rather harsh. Throwing people into the deep end and gradually revealing the details of what's happening isn't exactly an unheard-of storytelling technique, and I wouldn't say that it's "not proper". They're banking on the fact that people are already invested enough in the franchise, and will be willing to stick out some confusion before the full truth is revealed. This is a way of building tension and keeping viewers guessing (even if some people already know what's going on, whether from having read the novels or spoiling themselves on their contents). Of course, whether you like this approach or not is totally up to you... but I think saying the "anime absolutely does not [have] proper storytelling" is a bit of an over-statement. This is a valid narrative approach, and I'm sure everything will make sense in the composite once all the pieces come into place, even for us anime-only viewers. It's hard to judge the merits until you see the full picture and how it all comes together.

I suppose I should be more specific about what I mean. The idea of throwing people in the middle of things and slowly dishing out the details of how they got into that situation over time is not new, and no I don't think it's bad.

What bothers me about Shana III is how we were led into this.

At the end of Shana II we had some anime original ending where the cast fought Ball Masque among other things, and then at the beginning of Shana III we are told Yuiji disappeared on that very day of Christmas Eve.

Basically there was no time between the events of S2 and S3, but in S3 we're suddenly thrown into a situation of confusion and chaos. I'd have no problem if there was some sort of time gap where several events occurred that would explain the present events, but everything that was going on in Yuiji's mind leading up to S3 happened during the episodes of S2.

I personally think this is really awkward and this is what I don't think is proper. We are led to believe that there were things going on with Yuiji all alongside those S2 episodes without ever having an inkling of why. I can't say much more about Yuji because these things would be spoilers, but I will say that a lot of the development coming for him is going to seem a bit out of nowhere.

This is not to mention that it's hard to understand just what the purpose of that anime original ending with Ball Masque in season 2 even meant. They're now following Yuiji, but before hand they were basically attacking him. It seems like there's a contradiction in their actions.

I know very well how differently this is handled in the LN (A lot better IMO), and it's just disappointing to me to see how the anime has turned out (Mind you everything that is problematic in season 3 is because of season 2 and honestly they're doing the best they can to amend it at this point).

For the record, I gave this episode a 7/10 which I consider "good," so it's not like I am hating everything about the Shana anime. In fact I expect myself to get more into it later on, but right now a lot of the spill over effects of season 2 are bothering me. It's making the presentation of many of the new developments in S3 seem quite sour due to how the story has been written up to this point.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

I know very well how differently this is handled in the LN (A lot better IMO), and it's just disappointing to me to see how the anime has turned out (Mind you everything that is problematic in season 3 is because of season 2 and honestly they're doing the best they can to amend it at this point).

If this is in fact the case (that the problems are really in the past season, and they're doing what they can to clean up whatever "mess" they made for themselves before storywise), then I don't know how much I'd let it bother me. I mean, you have the benefit of knowing all the missing information anyway (so it's not like you yourself are left wondering about these apparently missing details), so I imagine part of your irritation is the fact that you're thinking mostly of what "should have been" rather than what is. I personally don't see that it's so horribly deterimental, but then again I "don't know what I'm missing" and I intend to keep it that way for now.

Once this whole show is over, perhaps we can have an analysis of how the anime organized the story compared to how it was done in the novels and what the merits/demerits are of each approach (and maybe guess at why they might have made certain decisions), but for now I think we have to take it as it goes. They can't change the past at this point, only do their best going forward.

[Reckoner]

Yes, you're right. I have knowledge so it's not exactly as problematic of an issue to me as it is to other people who are bothered with no knowledge. But as a fan of this series, I know some people who are in fact bothered because they don't have this information and it saddens me that this has more to do with the adaption than the actual story material itself. Since I actually like Shana as a story, I just wish they'd present it better so other people would be interested in this story as well.

But yes. There's nothing that can be done about it, and I'm willing to let things slide more once I get more into this season. I have issues with S2, but I'm trying my best to not let the merits of S3 go unseen by me.

[Rising Dragon]

The really sad thing is that even with all these complaints and concerns, you guys are still being more reasonable than the crew over in the ZnT section were. >.>

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

But as a fan of this series, I know some people who are in fact bothered because they don't have this information and it saddens me that this has more to do with the adaption than the actual story material itself. Since I actually like Shana as a story, I just wish they'd present it better so other people would be interested in this story as well.

Well, to these people, I guess I would say "be patient" and "have a little faith". I mean, if I actually thought the answers were never going to come and they were leaving us in the dark out of some sense of malice or lack of consideration for anime-only viewers, that'd be one thing. As I said before, though, it's pretty clear the answers will come, as they have an entire season to lead to the conclusion. If people can't show that little bit of consideration, and instead are like "I'M SO CONFUSED THIS MAKES NO SENSE THIS SHOW SUCKS"... well, it's sort of their loss. I do also think that some of these people may marathon the show later once they're reassured that things have been clarified (just like I think a number of people marathoned the second season once they were told that the action had resumed in earnest). I always say that some shows are better watched in small chunks/batches anyway.

[SkyFlames]

I don't think that the lack of information nor background influence the main story too much, yeah of course they will skip some things, the fact is that they screwed season 2 but there is no fix to that but doing their best on the last season.

If I were not a LN reader, I'd say that Sydonay just killed a strong Outlaw leader, that Yuji is not just Yuji anymore, but somebody else too. And I'd be specting more information to see light in the next episodes. I'd be enjoying the show as much as I enjoy it now.

I got the same 'what's going on' feeling when I first saw a picture of a black haired armored guy on Yuji's SnS wiki article, and after reading it a bit I was like 'Is this the same anime I just watched?'. It's natural to get confussed at first, you just need to wait for them to explain it and hope that they will keep their current work's quality unchaged. J.C. Staff has done (against my first expectations) a really good job and is not inserting random anime original crap. For now that's enough to keep the viewer entretained.

[Marcus H.]

If people can't show that little bit of consideration, and instead are like "I'M SO CONFUSED THIS MAKES NO SENSE THIS SHOW SUCKS"... well, it's sort of their loss.

You know, this would also be useful over at the Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon forum.

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

At the end of Shana II we had some anime original ending where the cast fought Ball Masque among other things, and then at the beginning of Shana III we are told Yuiji disappeared on that very day of Christmas Eve.

Basically there was no time between the events of S2 and S3, but in S3 we're suddenly thrown into a situation of confusion and chaos.

Sorry, I could not understand why you felt the transition between S2 and S3 is not up to expectation. Yes, it may not be perfect, but it is adequate enough.

At 23m 42s of Episode 24 of Anime Season 2, you can see Yuji's disappearing footsteps. At the same time, Yuji said:"This night when we saved the city, I changed my world a lot, believing in what lies ahead."

The Christmas Eve event, as shown in Episode 1 of S3, happened immediately after the end of S2. As we have seen Yuji's disappearing footsteps, it should not be that surpising that Yuji disappeared that night. Changes he mentioned before indicates the change in his appearance and voice. The reasons behind the transformation is currently unknown for anime viewers, but they should not find it that surpising.

Reckoner, I am not sure of your opinion. Perhaps, you can suggest some ways to make the transition smoother.

[Deathscyther]

Another good episode. 9/10

I liked the fight in the beginning of the episode. Although we didn't know the flame haze, I think that this battle was animated to show us how serious Bal Masque are at the moment. Their plans are working. 'China' has fallen. Btw, I've always liked Sydonay. I think there's more behind his character than that we know.

So we get to see more of the tomogara. It is good to see more of their world as well.

It's a good thing that they've showed that not every tomogara accepts 'a mere mystes' as their new leader. I think that moment voiced the questions of a lot of people watching the anime. "Why is Yuji suddenly the leader of Bal Masque when they constantly attacking him during season 1 and 2?! Why did the tomogara accept this!?"
They gave us some hints this episode and I hope that the people who complained about this matter understand that J.C. Staff will explain this matter more clearly now that they've adressed it.

Some of the denizens have interesting personalities as well, so I want to see more of them. They don't all seem so bad. Espcially the moment when Yuji, Bel Peol and Hecate were talking, I was like "they don't seem so bad"

So Shana has to discover herself? I think it means that she'll have to believe in her own goals and dreams in order to move forward. That fighting for her own reasons and dreams will be the only way to unlock her real powers. And I guess in Shana's case that would mean that she'll have to do everything she can to understand Yuji and to bring him back/save him.

It looks like that the end of this episodes marks the start of everything that's to come. We will finally find out what Yuji decided, why he decided to do it and what he will do from now on.

Looking forward to the next episode.