School Days - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Keitaro

I'm not going to comment on Higurashi anymore then I have already done since this is thread about School days but your welcome to continue this discussion in pm if you want to. Perhaps, I shouldn't have listed Higurashi in my previous post.

In my Opinion Higurashi is worse. I was rooting for sekai too, so i didnt like the ending at all. I was hoping for more of happy ending that, makoto would make up his mind and Sekai and Makoto would date. The last part of the anime was too much.

The diffrence between Higurashi and school days is that, in School days we have a violent ending, while Through out Higurashi there are many violent scenes. I stopped watching it after episode 5.

So for most part i agree with you Keitaro, But i would put Higurashi first rather than second.


But overal i thought School days was a good anime. It was worth the time. Just the ending was disastrous.

[Klashikari]

*sigh* could we please stop talking higurashi (which might lead to spoilers like we already had at least more than thrice?).
No seriously, think whatever you want, but on the good place, but also with the knowledge. sticking with the "bloody ends" without actually watching the full piece is rather silly, as you don't have the reasons nor the process or it goes in.

If anything, School days has absolutely minimal-irrational explanations behind the double murder ending, while Higurashi has ton craps of reasons and none of these endings are meaningless either for the characters or the plot.
Don't judge something only with the amount of "blood", this is almost looking like judging elfen lied just because there are liters of blood. (if anything, EL migh be even worse than higurashi and School Days altogether, but it has many meaning much like higurashi)

again, STOP COMPARING things which have NOTHING in common.

[rant OFF, offtopic OFF]

[rtwesen]

Originally Posted by Fat Cat Lim

the camera perspective gave the impression that the Sekai's unborn child itself was witnessing the womb being cut open.

urgh that was what i felt. It was fking nasty and sick.

this is, in a sense, more gruesome than any other anime/manga; elfen lied, higurashi, battle royale, for that very reason.

makes me want to acquire the game and get the good endings gah! I can just imagine makoto playing the game and choosing all the wrong answers

the last few episodes were a bit unbelievable, makoto loss all sense (that kiss with kotonoha, wtf?), lost the little heart he had (albeit quite literally), started losing control of his lower body etc

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

*sigh* could we please stop talking higurashi (which might lead to spoilers like we already had at least more than thrice?).
No seriously, think whatever you want, but on the good place, but also with the knowledge. sticking with the "bloody ends" without actually watching the full piece is rather silly, as you don't have the reasons nor the process or it goes in.

If anything, School days has absolutely minimal-irrational explanations behind the double murder ending, while Higurashi has ton craps of reasons and none of these endings are meaningless either for the characters or the plot.
Don't judge something only with the amount of "blood", this is almost looking like judging elfen lied just because there are liters of blood. (if anything, EL migh be even worse than higurashi and School Days altogether, but it has many meaning much like higurashi)

again, STOP COMPARING things which have NOTHING in common.

[rant OFF, offtopic OFF]

I appologize if i offended you or any other Higurashi fan.

However i want to say that I WASNT criticizing the story plot as i only watched the first 5 to 7 episodes. I wasnt and am not going to discuss/judge about the plot of Higurashi, because this isnt not the Thread nor the forum for it.

All i am saying that violent scenes in Higurashi ( regardless of the plot and characters) is enough to keep many people ( including myself) away from watching it.

Also i dont think my post was completely off-topic, as i was just comparing the two, to express how violent i thought the ending was. So i wasnt trying to compare the two to show to chose ,which one is better or worse, but only was comparing the violent endings.


Again , i am sorry if i upset any one, But i wasnt trying to say Higurashi series is a bad anime ( or a good one). I WASNT JUDGING it. All i was saying was, the VIOLENCE in Higurashi is alot worse than School days.

As for the school days ending, i have mixed feelings about it. I thought It was good in terms of being a tragic anime, Since we almost never get to have a romance anime with these kind of endings. I liked the ending for this reason. However at the same time i didnt like the ending because it was just too disturbing and violent.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

If anything, School days has absolutely minimal-irrational explanations behind the double murder ending

[rant OFF, offtopic OFF]

I have to disagree with you. I can come up with some of your own posts to prove your statement wrong. The reason for Sekai killing Makoto was that she snapped after all those horible things Makoto did to her. She didnt mean anything to him. Lets not forget, she was only a highschool girl who went through alot emotionally . It was too much for her and she emotionally snapped.

As for Kotonaha, She was dumped and went through emotional trauma. Then Suddenly she takes makoto back. She is starting to be happy, then suddenly goes to makoto's house to see him dead. It was a huge shock for her. Of course she would go insane after that ( who wouldnt). So she kills sekai as partly revenge while being in a state of shock and insanity.

There you go. So it did have explanations.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

I appologize if i offended you or any other Higurashi fan.

Nein, i wasn't offended at all. it is silly to actually be so, until it is a troll or something (which is stupid as well)
Instead, i "blew up" considering the silly amount of times the series has been mentioned with SD without actually facts of comparison.
And, no i wasn't angry or flaming in case, just my usual tone when i try to re-axe some discussion sometimes. (not really the good way, that is it)

so don't worry, it wasn't exactly aimed only at you, and it isn't like it is a serious matter if someone disagree with me on a series, that would be childish. (until points used are silly, false, etc. *cough* blog "anime encourages murders *cough* )

However i want to say that I WASNT criticizing the story plot as i only watched the first 5 to 7 episodes. I wasnt and am not going to discuss/judge about the plot of Higurashi, because this isnt not the Thread nor the forum for it.

I guess you should have detailed a bit. as the "worse" was following up the quoted comment of "stupid, senseless, etc" part. It was not directly, i concur, but what Keitaro meant was set in stone. As you quoted it, it was hard to not conclude you meant "worse" in every aspect: saying worse is like claiming the other series is even more silly.

Also i dont think my post was completely off-topic, as i was just comparing the two, to express how violent i thought the ending was. So i wasnt trying to compare the two to show to chose ,which one is better or worse, but only was comparing the violent endings.

Nope, it isn't offtopic. what i said was offtopic, that's what i mean't with my tag (concerning my own abrupt intervention )

I have to disagree with you. I can come up with some of your own posts to prove your statement wrong. The reason for Sekai killing Makoto was that she snapped after all those horible things Makoto did to her. She didnt mean anything to him. Lets not forget, she was only a highschool girl who went through alot emotionally . It was too much for her and she emotionally snapped.

That is actually minimal, as even some people actually think "bleh, you don't kill someone who dumped you".
Again, i "defended" her psychic breakdown (though i'm far from being any char fanboy *sigh*) and no question about it is natural.
I guess i should use "out of proportion" instead of "irrational" with.

As for Kotonaha, She was dumped and went through emotional trauma. Then Suddenly she takes makoto back. She is starting to be happy, then suddenly goes to makoto's house to see him dead. It was a huge shock for her. Of course she would go insane after that ( who wouldnt). So she kills sekai as partly revenge while being in a state of shock and insanity.

Kotonoha's actions are somewhat what i believed extremely irrational, as she was clinging despite the blatant situation, and several actions weren't constant. (her seductive approach for example)

The problem again with her insanity is: she still consider makoto alive, and she can get him whenever she wants.
Considering Kotonoha reactions with Sekai, it wasn't even for revenge whatsoever, but "check" the baby or something.
If she was really losing all sanity, wishing to be with Makoto, she would kill herself, while Sekai doesn't have anything to do with their "time" anymore (as it wouldn't give makoto back if she kills her)
I know you don't have any rational perspective once you are enraged/insane, the thing is even after she killed sekai, she wasn't enjoying it whatsoever.

these points are why i think Kotonoha killed Sekai out of the blue, as she would keep her makoto "puppet", even though she didn't assault her.
In a sense, it is really twisted.

[VicViper_Mk2]

wow, these are some very good analysis, i would give some too but I'm not too good with words, so i like to get some questions cleared up (though most of them might sound stupid.

First of all, after finish watching the final episode. I started to think: who wins in the end? Makoto gets killed by his supposed beloved sekai, and she ended up dead by the hands of kotonoha, all for kotonoha holding on makoto's head while sailing to beyond. for who for what?

second, i heard that there was an uncut final episode aired by someone i forgot the name of it, in this uncut version, it is said that blood is red instead of black, shows the actual stabbing instead of flashback, and shows the head of makoto in the bag and probably kotonoha holding it. A few gripes i had after learning this.

why black for blood? No matter how i look at it, black just makes it look like oil, its like telling us they're androids; heck they might as well changes it to green and tell us they're aliens. my point is, why give such an misconception to us? If they think its violent to show red blood, why not just show none (but that probably is too unrealistic)

about the stabbing and showing the head. You got a person killing another, then gets killed by another. its got violent written all over it, why not go all the way?

Finally, after the credit rolls, we see various scenes of school life and minor character like taisuke, otome, etc. Does this have some kind of special meaning in it? its almost like they're not aware of the existance of makoto, sekai and kotonoha.

well thats all the questions i can think of at the moment, i apologize if they sound stupid or offensive. thanks for helping out

[Xcomp]

The Makoto head holding part and the gore reminds me of Battle Royale. Particular that scene where a human head rolls in with a grenade stuck in its mouth.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by VicViper_Mk2

First of all, after finish watching the final episode. I started to think: who wins in the end? Makoto gets killed by his supposed beloved sekai, and she ended up dead by the hands of kotonoha, all for kotonoha holding on makoto's head while sailing to beyond. for who for what?

it is a "loss/loss/temporary win then loss" condition, that's how i see it.
Obviously, the 2 dead characters are leaving with regrets and many time they could spend elsewhere than afterlife
Kotonoha is sure "happy", but we don't know if her "insanity" which keeps her in her dream will keeps going.
Also, There are high chances she will die in her trip, as she doesn't seem sane enough to take care of herself, so in such condition, she will die.
And even if she survives, she will be either in jail or certainly in a asylum.

second, i heard that there was an uncut final episode aired by someone i forgot the name of it, in this uncut version, it is said that blood is red instead of black, shows the actual stabbing instead of flashback, and shows the head of makoto in the bag and probably kotonoha holding it. A few gripes i had after learning this.

That's what people claimed for the special screening done my 0verflow, the company responsible for the game. We will see with the release of the last DVD, as DVD are most likely uncut.

why black for blood? No matter how i look at it, black just makes it look like oil, its like telling us they're androids; heck they might as well changes it to green and tell us they're aliens. my point is, why give such an misconception to us? If they think its violent to show red blood, why not just show none (but that probably is too unrealistic)

You answered your own question: turning the blood into black "lessen" the impact as they are not "like us".
Of course, people clearly know they are humans and it is a violent death with blood. But the sole "annoyance" of the black blood from the watchers prove the censorship works somehow. TV stations are forced in some regulations, and various lobby groups can attack because they judge something too violent/gore or explicit. Therefore, censorship is used so they can air it.

of course, i won't comment how TRUELY useful censorship is

about the stabbing and showing the head. You got a person killing another, then gets killed by another. its got violent written all over it, why not go all the way?

I didn't get your question

Finally, after the credit rolls, we see various scenes of school life and minor character like taisuke, otome, etc. Does this have some kind of special meaning in it? its almost like they're not aware of the existance of makoto, sekai and kotonoha.

We don't know when this scene happens. Even after such atrocities, life goes on, so does the school life. Even after some weeks or months, it is possible that such situation can be turned back to normal, especially if the persons aren't that involved in the incidents.

[Sinestra]

I cant believe we are still doing the School Days Higurashi comparssion. *Sigh*which i think its travesty to even utter the two in the same sentence. Just because two series have blood in them does not make them good for comparssion, not to mention they are not even in the same genre.

School Days plot if thats what you can call it relied on inconsistent scenes and irrational character behaviour with no explanation leading to a bloody end that technically was not needed nor made sense. Now most people loved this ending i did not but usually people want to see blood so sacrficing quality for shock vaule can be profitable at times. But Higurashi is way more complex with plans within plans and detailed explanations for why things turn out a cetain way in the series. Also, the deaths are not meanningless each person deaths plays into the bigger role of the overall series and give the auidence one more clue as to what is going on. You could put your brain into stand by mode and with minimal effort still understand School Days. One thing I will say the writers of School Days accomplished is getting fans to look at it in certain way which has divided the discussion in camps obviously.

[VicViper_Mk2]

about the stabbing and holding the head question. what i meant to ask is: why couldn't they show it, instead of running flashbacks during the stabbing and hiding the head completely in the bag instead of seeing it. censorships again i bet, but you already have people killing another, thats violent enough no? but to actually include a stabbing scene would be too much? that goes the same for the head, perhaps they think its too creepy to see a severed head.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by VicViper_Mk2

about the stabbing and holding the head question. what i meant to ask is: why couldn't they show it, instead of running flashbacks during the stabbing and hiding the head completely in the bag instead of seeing it. censorships again i bet, but you already have people killing another, thats violent enough no? but to actually include a stabbing scene would be too much? that goes the same for the head, perhaps they think its too creepy to see a severed head.

But remember even though it was violent ending what did you actually see? Not much pretty much everything was hidden. Sekai stabbing Makoto each time she stabbed it went to flashback the only sound you got was his crying and the blood was changed to black.

Katsura killing Sekai you never actually saw the strike you only saw the "blackblood" spurt out like Old faithful and her eyes roll back and of course you never saw Katsuras little autopsy either.

So to keep it somwhat ceasored they only show the top of Makotos head when Katsura is holding it on nice boat. So they still basically stayed true to the ceasorship but still gave the auidence violent acts without showing the actual event in its entirity.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Nein, i wasn't offended at all. it is silly to actually be so, until it is a troll or something (which is stupid as well)
Instead, i "blew up" considering the silly amount of times the series has been mentioned with SD without actually facts of comparison.
And, no i wasn't angry or flaming in case, just my usual tone when i try to re-axe some discussion sometimes. (not really the good way, that is it)

so don't worry, it wasn't exactly aimed only at you, and it isn't like it is a serious matter if someone disagree with me on a series, that would be childish. (until points used are silly, false, etc. *cough* blog "anime encourages murders *cough* )
I guess you should have detailed a bit. as the "worse" was following up the quoted comment of "stupid, senseless, etc" part. It was not directly, i concur, but what Keitaro meant was set in stone. As you quoted it, it was hard to not conclude you meant "worse" in every aspect: saying worse is like claiming the other series is even more silly.
Nope, it isn't offtopic. what i said was offtopic, that's what i mean't with my tag (concerning my own abrupt intervention )

That is actually minimal, as even some people actually think "bleh, you don't kill someone who dumped you".
Again, i "defended" her psychic breakdown (though i'm far from being any char fanboy *sigh*) and no question about it is natural.
I guess i should use "out of proportion" instead of "irrational" with.
Kotonoha's actions are somewhat what i believed extremely irrational, as she was clinging despite the blatant situation, and several actions weren't constant. (her seductive approach for example)

The problem again with her insanity is: she still consider makoto alive, and she can get him whenever she wants.
Considering Kotonoha reactions with Sekai, it wasn't even for revenge whatsoever, but "check" the baby or something.
If she was really losing all sanity, wishing to be with Makoto, she would kill herself, while Sekai doesn't have anything to do with their "time" anymore (as it wouldn't give makoto back if she kills her)
I know you don't have any rational perspective once you are enraged/insane, the thing is even after she killed sekai, she wasn't enjoying it whatsoever.

these points are why i think Kotonoha killed Sekai out of the blue, as she would keep her makoto "puppet", even though she didn't assault her.
In a sense, it is really twisted.

I am a Sekai Fan boy . Dont you be saying rude things about her .
.

Yeah you do have a point. I should have been more clear about it . I thought you got offended based on the tone of your post, but glad you didnt ( you would be amazed that many people actually do get offended over silly anime discussion like this) . In my opinion Higurashi is a good anime, but for now i am not going near it. In future i am going to give it a try .

And i do agree with you about the fact that Sekai shouldnt have done what she did. But i was trying to say there were many reasons for it. I think the reason she did that was because she was only a high school student. Maybe if she was few year older, she wouldnt have done it. But still Makoto did push her every single nerve. So 99.99 + .01 percent of the fault is Makoto's.

I personally was really upset with the ending as i am a Sekai fan and didnt want for the anime to end this way.


P.S. From your previous posts i can say you are a Higurashi fanboy. Just admit it .
P.S. One of my friends actually loves romance anime with good endings. He told me, He likes school days as his number 1 anime. Well he is only up to episode 9, so he is going to get so upset with the ending too. Lets hope for a remake of school days with a good ending .

Edit 1: actually my friend just finished and had the same feeling as me. Didnt like the ending but loved the series. I liked the ending for most part though.

[mist2123]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

But remember even though it was violent ending what did you actually see? Not much pretty much everything was hidden. Sekai stabbing Makoto each time she stabbed it went to flashback the only sound you got was his crying and the blood was changed to black.

Katsura killing Sekai you never actually saw the strike you only saw the "blackblood" spurt out like Old faithful and her eyes roll back and of course you never saw Katsuras little autopsy either.

So to keep it somwhat ceasored they only show the top of Makotos head when Katsura is holding it on nice boat. So they still basically stayed true to the ceasorship but still gave the auidence violent acts without showing the actual event in its entirity.

yah we need to see sekai get BBQPWN and guess what the golden rule is true after all

[Nvis]

I wish there was an episode 13. I would like to know what happens afterwards....

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I wish there was an episode 13. I would like to know what happens afterwards....

you dont need to an episode for that i can tell you right now. After the murders LIFE GOES ON as shown by the little clip at the end. honestly these characters really did not impact anyone elses lives but their own. The only person i can see who would truly be broken up over this "so called tragedy" would Setsuna she lost her bestfriend and the guy she loved.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

School Days plot if thats what you can call it relied on inconsistent scenes and irrational character behaviour with no explanation leading to a bloody end that technically was not needed nor made sense.

I hate it when people say that a series is inconsistent when I cannot for hells sakes see what is wrong with the plot other than it was designed so that it became a trainwreck in terms of not having a perfect love story where everything ended up all fine and dandy Knowing the characters and their ability to think, i do not agree that they are acting out of character in any way. Makoto has always been a jerk and will forever be one. Sekai started out sane but that crumbled after being influenced by makoto's stupidity so the logic was all there behind the killing. The doesnt need to be anymore explination as we have seen all along how sekai has been negelcted and pushed over the edge once too often. Irrational? dam right they are but that is their personality. Call this an anti love story if you want

Now most people loved this ending i did not but usually people want to see blood so sacrficing quality for shock vaule can be profitable at times.

From what I can see this is QUALUTY. It is quality "bad end" (dead ends from the game in other words) is the making. I duno about this shock value thing as we are all aware of the reason why this episode was delayed in the first place. Yep the violence that happened to coincide with what happened in japan. This is no more of a shock to me that anyone as we all saw it coming from a mile (and may god's wrath forever smite those unworthy!).

But Higurashi is way more complex with plans within plans and detailed explanations for why things turn out a cetain way in the series. Also, the deaths are not meanningless each person deaths plays into the bigger role of the overall series and give the auidence one more clue as to what is going on.

And that is what is required for higurashi to function. School days was never intended to be a murder case where you had to find the killer and there was never a mastermind or deeper meaning behind it. All school days did was stress how shit can just suddenly happen but from what we have seen it wasnt sudden right? I would call it inconsistant if sekai was happy one day and went on to kill makoto on the next but that didnt happen. we SAW how she got more and more distressed with the whole situation which led to the murder.

You could put your brain into stand by mode and with minimal effort still understand School Days. One thing I will say the writers of School Days accomplished is getting fans to look at it in certain way which has divided the discussion in camps obviously.

Obviously we have the lovers and the haters for this series. I guess for the haters they just expected a bit too much coming from this series and for what it is worth. No happy end here sorry to disappoint

ps. this isnt directed at you Sinestra btw, but people here in general who have issues.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Obviously we have the lovers and the haters for this series. I guess for the haters they just expected a bit too much coming from this series and for what it is worth. No happy end here sorry to disappoint

ps. this isnt directed at you Sinestra btw, but people here in general who have issues.

Not all people here, who didnt like the ending hate the series. Some people didnt like the ending, but then again because of the ending some people liked the series.

I personally liked the ending and at the same time i didnt like the ending. I want to vote 10 for this episode because i thought the ending was good, but at the same time i want to vote 1 for it because of the way Sekai was treated.

You are overgeneralizing it too much . Not all people didnt like the ending because it wasnt a good ending, But there can be many diffrent reasons.

All i can say i loved the series as a whole. And it is probably in my Top 3 romance anime genres.




P.S. Assuming your post was targeted at me .

[taelrak]

What is the song that started playing towards the end called? (not the ED, but when all the good stuff was happening )

[StrawberryKitten]

Spoiler for a video i made from the last epi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye_Tk04WN24

[Mad Dog]

All in all i have to give this episode a 9. It was a very good episode for a bad end. As for some of the arguments on here i would like to post my opinions.

Was Sakei pregnant? I will have to say no. I believe that what she had was a false pregnancy. As for how she suddenly threw-up without notice is simple. She ate something that didn't agree with her. It happens all the time to people. She just jumped to the conclusion that she was pregnant without a speck of evidence. After that she really believed that she was pregnant and thus tricked her body into a false pregnancy. She was already an emotional train wreck so thinking that she had a false pregnancy is not beyond reason; in fact i believe it was more reasonable than if she really had been pregnant.

As for the sounds that the unedited version had when cutting open Sakei was simply that. Her getting cut opened with a saw.

Would Kotonoha have been able to find something in Sakei after cutting her open. Yes. At this time Sakei was to have been about 1-2 months pregnant. At that stage in development the fetus would be about 1.2-1.5 inches long. Long enough to have been seen if the womb was completely opened up. Since Kotonoha didn't find anything (even in her crazed state), Sakei was not pregnant.

Makoto says "Souka" (I see) just before he dies. He says the same thing in his bad ending in the game after Sakei stabs him.

Nice Boat, Coincidence? Nope. I think that the producers did it on purpose. The Nice Boat replacement episode was very unusual i will admit, but what most people don't realize is that all that scenery were shots taken of France. Just think of how big this episode was in the rates AFTER all this mess happened. It is estimated that it had triple the viewership than it originally would have had.