World Of Warcraft Discussion Thread

[GDB]

I don't think they should be a major contributor at all. However, I feel they should be able to either switch to a secondary spec and change weapons (at the very most) and be within 20% of the lowest DPS. If they stay Prot, 50% of the lowest DPS. As it is now, I think they pull like 20% of the lowest DPS, making them relatively useless in mono-tank fights without a secondary set.

[Flying Dagger]

Why not? The "performance" of a tank, beyond threat, should matter when it comes to progression dps check. Atm a tank's dps is still rather trivial.

Ofc, one wonders: what would happen if a tank equip himself with dps gears: would he be able to do a lot more dps than a reg dps? But I believe that gimmick comes at the cost of having to maybe add an extra healer.

[GDB]

Because if an off-tank who isn't tanking can compete with DPS for damage, then why bring DPS? Just bring all tanks, then if one goes down it's next man up.

[Flying Dagger]

off tank that is not taking significant damage would not have his vengeance stack which result in a slight loss of dps (say, 25%). They may also not have the appropriate cooldown for controllable burst damage.

[Ithekro]

Bear and Cat form are seperate skill trees now. Well, four main path choices, the trees are the same for all, just the skills and resources you get are different based on your level 10 choice.

Most classes have only three.

[Nightbat®]

Ah the "Hybrid Tax", how wonderfull that was
every 2-spec was thought of as inferior, and every 3-spec still was able to get raidspots
because it was still an investment to bring a class with triple utility than a class only able to perform 2 roles

then there was the whole "DPS vs Utility" war, where especially during WotLK DPS output sidelined all utility except for healers

and the icing on the cake "Bring the player not the class" which never worked since some classes just made things easier even when the player had less skill

[Awrya]

So druids need four different pve gears with different gemming and enchanting, compared to three for most classes. I take that as a proof that blizzard never really through the druid class

There is no true "bring the player not the class" in wow for progress guilds, some classes simply do better than others in certain fights.

[Flying Dagger]

bears and cats, although run on the same "set" of gears, have different stat preferences already. I do not think it will be that big of a change.

[Keroko]

I still remember dwarf priests having fear ward as their racial class skill. Not that it encouraged people to play dwarf priests, but they were the most sought after kind of priest nonetheless.

[Awrya]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I still remember dwarf priests having fear ward as their racial class skill. Not that it encouraged people to play dwarf priests, but they were the most sought after kind of priest nonetheless.

Speaking of racial skills, in BC I started a blood elf shadow priest because I really liked the shadow orbs I saw, but only noticed when I hit ~lv. 60 that those were a troll racial

BTW, are the talents for 90 for shamans already revealed or are we still in the dark?

[RWBladewing]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I still remember dwarf priests having fear ward as their racial class skill. Not that it encouraged people to play dwarf priests, but they were the most sought after kind of priest nonetheless.

You could get away with a lot if you were one too, just because it was impossible to find a replacement. I still remember this one in my guild, it took him single-handedly wiping the raid twice in a row (killed the tank by continuing to heal on Nefarian's priest class call) and then loudly yelling over vent for him to finally be benched. Then the guild leader brought in his fresh 60 in greens to do nothing but cast fear ward just because we depended on it that much.

[Ithekro]

Only if they respec all the time, as you can only have two specs normally now. They have four spec options, but they can't just swap out as easy as if they only had three specs.

They have a spec for healing. A spec for melee dps, a spec for ranged dps, and a tanking spec.

[Nightbat®]

Is everyone still ninjaing eachother's gear
Before LFD and everone could change their identity, it was rare (and bad for your image on a server)
but with the LFD I've found myself foaming at the mouth too many times when someone 'needed' for items on their 'offspec'

When brought up on the forums some defended that action because 'there was no offspec anymore, with the dual spec" and the player would have a 'need'
to gather that gear for a raid - which they weren't performing in the dungeon

and when confronted that those players were not willing to perform a more tedious task (PuG tanking or healing - thankless jobs as they already are)
but sitting back enjoying 3-button dps still people considered it 'fair game' to get your gear EZ-mode and leaching of players actually willing to perform the task they signed up for in the PuG

[Ithekro]

From what I remember you can't need on something you can't wear.

After that, I don't recall.

[Keroko]

Warriors and paladins can wear everything though, with hunters and shamans second place (being able to wear everything but plate).

The system has always been flawed. There's a reason class-specific gear was brought in for endgame, and eventually replaced with badges.

[Ithekro]

Classes get negatives for wearing something they are specialized for. If you are suppose to wear plate, you have a specialization for it. If you wear cloth instead of plate, you have a penalty. At least I remember that coming up at some point

[GDB]

Yes, people still ninja. In just the one day I ran Heroics before I said they weren't worth my time, I saw a hunter take strength gear (because the system let him), and a DK take an agility item (forget if it was a trinket or polearm). Again, because it let him.

I've also seen idiots queue up for LFR as tanks wearing PVP gear, socketted with +4 resist gems. Not +40 or anything, +4. The stuff from Burning Crusade.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Classes get negatives for wearing something they are specialized for. If you are suppose to wear plate, you have a specialization for it. If you wear cloth instead of plate, you have a penalty. At least I remember that coming up at some point

Not really what I meant, I know there is an armor specialization for every class
The problem is pugging your ass for gear, then see it get swiped by
(in most cases, though I'm well aware of arrogant tanks and healers) DPS who 'need it for offspec' but CBAed to actually perform that role to get that gear

Playing my warrior tank, in all the PuGs I've done (which would've given me a whole kennel of perky pugs)
the times I was selected as DPS (dual role selected, mainspec Tank 95% of the time, the other 5% as DPS I usually had to swap spec to tank anyway)
has been maybe 10 times
the number of pugs where I've actually found myself with the other plate wearer also being in tank gear no more than 3

to get a fast group, hybrids (most notably Tanks, hardly ever happened with healers)
would tag the Protection role and simply gamble on there being another tank present
Now I would be somewhat OK with that, but not when a leech like that wins an item he had no intention to use in the party he/she was present in,
usually disconnecting/leaving immediatly after, since they got what they came for and didn't need the group anymore
(Like hell I would keep tanking with a ****er like that still in my group)

Originally Posted by GDB

I've also seen idiots queue up for LFR as tanks wearing PVP gear, socketted with +4 resist gems. Not +40 or anything, +4. The stuff from Burning Crusade.

I once had a PvP Disc priest as healer in a heroic Grim Batol and was pretty sceptical
but the bugger performed flawlessly, actually a hell of a lot better than the DPS moaning about it

[Nixl]

I think for the very reason you listed is why Blizzard is changing the rolling system, at least for raid finder, so that only those eligible for the gear can roll. In fact, I am not even sure you get the need/greed interface anymore. One's eligibility depends on spec.

I need to reread the Blue post, but I think they are making sure no one outside those eligible can swipe the gear anymore in MoP. Although I am wondering if they are making offspec rolls completely impossible, which might be annoying, especially if gears goes to waste just do to a spec limitation.

edit: Found it,
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/blog/395...ed_-27_03_2012

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

I once had a PvP Disc priest as healer in a heroic Grim Batol and was pretty sceptical
but the bugger performed flawlessly, actually a hell of a lot better than the DPS moaning about it

Healer PvP gear still has int and one secondary stat. DPS PvP gear still has Str/Agi and one secondary stat. Tank PvP gear does not exist.

Originally Posted by Nixl

I think for the very reason you listed is why Blizzard is changing the rolling system, at least for raid finder, so that only those eligible for the gear can roll. In fact, I am not even sure you get the need/greed interface anymore. One's eligibility depends on spec.

In current raid finder you still get the Need/Greed window. If you can equip it, you can roll need on it. However, if it's tagged for your role and you roll need, you get +100 on your roll over someone who it isn't tagged for who rolled need. I think they'll probably implement the same in LFD in MoP, but that doesn't help in Cata.