F/SN UBW TV - Episode 20 Spoiler Discussion / Poll

[MagicaLideaL]

Originally Posted by bakato

It's just nice to know she's not losing out on any of this.



I felt the same way and I kinda still do, but motivations for choosing a career can be ultimately divided into 2 categories:

1. Expecting a certain result.
2. Acting on principles and ideals.

Shirou's case is the latter. It's about fighting the good fight and doing everything he possibly can. It'd be nice if he ended up in a good place, but it doesn't matter in the end as long as he did everything he could to live by his ideals.

Yea, that's what I think right after i finished the episode. I am now partially agreed with his decision to still pursue hell mainly because people pointed out that Archer and Shirou is different as Archer has already forgotten about the beauty of helping others while Shirou still remembers it. I could not agree more with the fact that Archer is not helping people by saving them but cleaning up messes by killing the bad one and what Shirou is aiming is to help people by saving them instead of killing. Besides that, Shirou also has Tohsaka by his side this time.

[steam fish]

i have a question about archer/ shiro, i was reading around the wiki and it said that those with reality marble would have a sealing designation and would be incarcerated for study, why didnt this happen to archer?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by steam fish

i have a question about archer/ shiro, i was reading around the wiki and it said that those with reality marble would have a sealing designation and would be incarcerated for study, why didnt this happen to archer?

No one found out, I suppose.

[Rising Dragon]

Because magi are inherently secretive, Shirou would've made damn sure no one learned of his research. Which, for EMIYA, likely happened when he was constantly on the move, keeping out of the reach of the Mages' Association.

[Axyp]

RIP LLancer

[steam fish]

can anyone using reinforcement/projection use unlimited blade works? i also read that since projected weapons come from unlimited blade works if anyone could use it

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by steam fish

i have a question about archer/ shiro, i was reading around the wiki and it said that those with reality marble would have a sealing designation and would be incarcerated for study, why didnt this happen to archer?

He made sure no ome found out. He was always going around to different places and most likely knew to avoid letting people find out his secret as he didn't need more enemies.

[Axyp]

Originally Posted by steam fish

can anyone using reinforcement/projection use unlimited blade works? i also read that since projected weapons come from unlimited blade works if anyone could use it

Caster couldn't use it though before she died. So im assuming since its Archers noble phantasom, only he could use it.

[Rev Okkin]

Originally Posted by steam fish

can anyone using reinforcement/projection use unlimited blade works? i also read that since projected weapons come from unlimited blade works if anyone could use it

Reality Marbles like FZ Rider's and Archer's are their own mental images/world.
So nobody should be able to use them other than them.

And don't use the bloody wiki other than the interviews and material in the reference section.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by steam fish

i have a question about archer/ shiro, i was reading around the wiki and it said that those with reality marble would have a sealing designation and would be incarcerated for study, why didnt this happen to archer?

All right, you want to capture and incarcerate Archer for study, how are you supposed to do that? Archer is:

a) Fairly secretive of it. The only ones who know he has a reality marble are either dead, or his best friends.

b) All over the globe saving the world

c) Very good at fighting and killing.

[Rising Dragon]

EMIYA was still a human being, though, and had all of the weaknesses and failings of a human being. And he is far from the best magus in the Type-Moon universe--they could send an Enforcer or three like Bazett after him and he'd be wrecked easily unless he got his Reality Marble deployed--which, if they're coming after him, they would be aware of and likely wouldn't allow him to do.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

Reality Marbles like FZ Rider's and Archer's are their own mental images/world.

If that's the case, then anyone with a similar mental image should be able to produce a similar reality marble. This would also explain why Shirou and Archer both have UBW (although maybe different in some ways) if they're both supposed to be different people. Even with their differences, they also have enough similarities to produce similar mental images.

Of course, the likelihood of a totally different people calling his/her reality marble unlimited blade works is probably slim, but they should still be able to produce a similar-looking world.

[Rising Dragon]

It's not nearly as clear cut a case as having a "similar" mental state to produce a similar Reality Marble. Humans who can produce them on their own (Iskander is kind of an exception) are almost alien in mindset, effectively running off of a different OS than the world, Gaia, is, and effectively have their own unique world within them. Reality Marbles are representative of it, and every aspect of it has significance to the wielder, even if those aspects are merely cosmetic. Shirou and EMIYA's altered perspectives are a product of specific circumstances and events. They are a result of their shared distortion (wanting to save people regardless of their own selves), their experiences in life (like the Fuyuki fire, EMIYA's conflicts, so on and so forth), and their shared aligned Origin and element of "Sword", which itself is a result of Avalon's implantation in them at such a young age.

Shirou and EMIYA's Reality Marbles are indeed different in certain cosmetic aspects, which is representative of the difference between them. They are similar, however, because Shirou and EMIYA are similar. While they feel alien to each other, resulting in the differences, you must keep in mind that Shirou and EMIYA's mindsets and personalities are still alien to literally everyone else around them. Very, very, VERY few humans could ever manifest Reality Marbles, which are more common amongst creatures like demons, aliens, and Dead Apostles, themselves products of beings that originated from an actual alien.

[monster]

Do note that I wasn't saying that just anybody can do it. What I'm saying is that if anyone else has a similar mindset and is capable of producing a reality marble, then the reality marble that is the representation of such a mindset should also be similar, and any differences would be as a result of whatever differences there are between the two people, like between Shirou and Archer.

[XFire]

Being Lancer is suffering. Being Lancer is also F***ING AWESOME. Damn, that was a hell of a way to go.


Also, I finally understand the origin of the word GAR on an emotional level. Both Archer and Shirou are making me very confused sexually.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by steam fish

can anyone using reinforcement/projection use unlimited blade works? i also read that since projected weapons come from unlimited blade works if anyone could use it

HIS projected weapons come from Unlimited Blade Works. And this exists only because of his Origin, which is Sword. For more details on Origins, watch Kara no Kyoukai (Garden of Sinners). It deals extensively with origins.

Originally Posted by Rev Okkin

And don't use the bloody wiki other than the interviews and material in the reference section.

The wiki's not wrong here. People just misinterpret it. And, as I say every time someone complains that the wiki is bad, fix it or make something better.

[TwilightsCall]

Shirou is a very special case because, as GDB said, his origin was forcefully changed to "Sword." Theoretically, it's possible that if someone similar enough to Shirou in personality also had their origin forcefully changed to "Sword," they could produce something similar to UBW.

But you have to remember EMIYA's UBW was a product of both his ideals and his life. Shirou's UBW was heavily influenced by his encounter with Archer, in addition to the above, and that created an entirely different Field. So the circumstances that would lead to the creation of the Reality Marble would be very precise, even the tiniest in changes could lead to incredibly dramatic changes to it.

There's also no guarantee that the person would have an affinity for Projection like Shirou did. They could end up developing an ability similar to Berserker in F/Z, allowing them to unlock the potential of anything sword-like. They could become proficient in actually producing Holy and Demonic swords, not just projecting them. They could have their body slowly change to become more sword-like, similar to Shirou in HF. Really anything is possible.

So to sum up, it is theoretically possible someone could develop a Reality Marble similar to UBW, at least in effect, but the chances are vanishingly small, and obviously even if it happened there would be huge differences depending on the individual in question.

[ShadowSamurai365]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

All right, you want to capture and incarcerate Archer for study, how are you supposed to do that? Archer is:

a) Fairly secretive of it. The only ones who know he has a reality marble are either dead, or his best friends.

b) All over the globe saving the world

c) Very good at fighting and killing.

To add to Rising Dragon's post, Archer (in his own time) didn't have the luxury of learning/developing his abilities. It took Archer 20 years (10 years to learn basics, and 10 years to master it) his UBW. He didn't have any one to fully teach him about certain things/basics about magic (Kiritsugu half-baked Shirou's teachings/training, not being serious about it; and Rin wasn't there to explain certain things to ArcherShirou, in which in all routes of the VN, Rin explains things to Shirou).

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by steam fish

can anyone using reinforcement/projection use unlimited blade works? i also read that since projected weapons come from unlimited blade works if anyone could use it

Unfortunately, no. Unlimited Blade Works is a kind of magic called "reality marble", it involves projecting your soul into the real world. So unless your have lost everything in a hellfire(the fiery stage of UBW), saved and survived by a man you admire and later adopt his ideals(the hill that represent ideals) and have an origin/affinity of swords(the sword field), and with the bonus of having your heart turned into machine by a countless repeat of orders to "Kill everyone and everything"(for the gears), Unlimited Blade Works is not for you.

That being said, even with the above experience there's still the hurdle for "obtaining" a reality marble, which there is no known method. You either have it, or you don't. It is like rolling a 7 on a regular dice.

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by XFire

Being Lancer is suffering. Being Lancer is also F***ING AWESOME. Damn, that was a hell of a way to go.


Also, I finally understand the origin of the word GAR on an emotional level. Both Archer and Shirou are making me very confused sexually.

Bro, watching Lancer is awesome, being Lancer? Not so much. Laner's always got the WORST luck ever.