Macross - Mecha, Weapons, and Technology

[CaptGloval]

No talk on the VF-27's big gun that was used to destroy the ship wreckage in episode 9? The way it works make it look like a mini version of a ship's main cannon.

[Burner of Anime]

Originally Posted by CaptGloval

No talk on the VF-27's big gun that was used to destroy the ship wreckage in episode 9? The way it works make it look like a mini version of a ship's main cannon.

He hit the reactor on that ship. You can see the chain reaction starting from the engine section and move to engulf the ship. Looks more akin to the focused beam cannon on the Macross quarter than the traditional BFG. Anti-cap ship weapon with better penetration than the QR's shoulder cannon.

At least the VF-25 has an armarment upgrade since the first encounter. In the first ep they do nuts against the Varja, in ep7 it was good enough to punch a hole in that Vajra mothership armour.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well Brera's gun does resemble Zentradi ship beam weapons.



If Galaxy General was the VF-27's manufacturer it would not be so surprising as their founder and lead scientists are Zentradi.

[squaresphere]

Hmm so the vf27 seems to have superior tech all around.

- super pack like performance or greater
- passive (if not active) stealth
- built in fold capability
- variable beam weaponry
- probably has micro missiles though we haven't seem them yet
- evidence of brain wave control and holographic cockpit

So what can defeat a technologically superior enemy? MUSIC! A stunning song to disrupt/distract the brain wave control is key

[Wild Goose]

Or fanservice.

Also something I just realised and want to point out regarding Gs: the human body can take stresses beyond 9Gs: the reason modern fighters don't exceed 9Gs is because of G-LOC: G-induced Loss of Consciousness. The lack of blood to the brain causes a blackout, with the pilot still alive but KOed; with G-LOC it isn't the stress of the 9G that kills you, but the several seconds at G that KO you, at which point your plane forms a smoking crater into the ground after you lose control.

Or to argue semantics: You can survive stresses greater than 9Gs, but not while conscious. :P And an unconscious pilot is as good as dead so it's more or less the same all in all.

Also, regarding something that was posted a while back on the VF-0 floating due to being less dense than water: a Nimitz-class carrier displaces (i.e. weighs) 100,000 tons. ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TONS. It floats not due to being less dense than water but by the shape of the hull which pushes the water aside allowing it to stay afloat.

Many planes today can float to a degree - heck airliners have water landing instructions. Most aircraft can also float, particularly navy planes, due to the fact that like boats, they are designed to move through a fluid medium. There's records of a B-29 that was floating for several days after ditching in the water. Jet fighter fuselages are also vaguely boat shaped. The problem is that when ditching in water, the water rushes in the intakes, floods the engines, and the plane sinks; the VF-0 avoids this by sealing the intake vents and keeping the exhaust away from the sea.

[aldw]

Since human bodies can handle horizontal G-loads better than vertical ones as noted by G-LOC issues, having a vertical directional physiological G-dampening via bodysuit equipped with inertial dampening would be more energy efficient than having one function for an entire craft all-directionally.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by aldw

Since human bodies can handle horizontal G-loads better than vertical ones as noted by G-LOC issues, having a vertical directional physiological G-dampening via bodysuit equipped with inertial dampening would be more energy efficient than having one function for an entire craft all-directionally.

Who said it functioned for the entire craft, and didn't just function for the cockpit, with reinforcement at key stress points or else with smaller, focused dampers in those locations? I'd have to guess that they would keep it on the cockpit, and have it dampen inertial-based stresses to an extent... but not too much of one, given that kinesthetic sense depends on gauging inertia to some degree, and damping out ALL of it would be like blinding oneself to the way one's craft was moving. Such as, say... going 'down' to crash into a ship's hull. It's certainly more useful than visuals are at gauging that sort of thing, especially where there are few frames of reference like horizons, skies, and the like.

Originally Posted by burner of anime

At least the VF-25 has an armarment upgrade since the first encounter. In the first ep they do nuts against the Varja, in ep7 it was good enough to punch a hole in that Vajra mothership armour.

I think that's more because they're a) using missiles with reaction warheads, b) the missiles work better due to the anti-jamming tech, and c) because those guns which punched the big holes were eithe rmissiles or else Brera's VF-27's cannon.

[CaptGloval]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, regarding something that was posted a while back on the VF-0 floating due to being less dense than water: a Nimitz-class carrier displaces (i.e. weighs) 100,000 tons. ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TONS. It floats not due to being less dense than water but by the shape of the hull which pushes the water aside allowing it to stay afloat.

To refine it further, things float because the weight of the water they displace is greater than their own weight.

As for the punching of a hole on the Vajra ship, perhaps its "hull" is simply not as strongly armored as the Red one is. Must be very difficult to armor that big thing, from a technological or even evolutionary point of view.

That got me thinking, could the Vajra ship be based on space whales?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Did I just hear Space Whales?

Space Whales are composed of both energy and flesh though.



Zolan Snakes, Baby Vajra, Space Whales


Zolan Snakes
Almost all Zolans can be seen to have wrapped around their necks a strange three-eyed snake. These snakes are light tan in color and feature a large central eye, and two regular eyes beneath them. They are intelligent and speak their own language, which most Zolans can understand. They are friendly and are generally asleep around the neck of the Zolan carrying them. Incidentally, these creatures can read and understand the ancient writings on Zola (ancient Protoculture script).

Critter at ep 8



Now if the Vajra baby having three eyes is any indication.

The Vajra could be a Protoculture experiment like the Zolan snake.

Also besides the Vajra ther one other creature that can achieve space fold by iitself. Which also migrates to planet Zola once a year.




Galaxy Whales (Vahla Ena)
The Galactic Whales, officially referred to as the Vahla Ena are massive spacefaring creatures comprised of energy and flesh all in one creature. These creatures are presently being studied by the Galactic Academy on Earth, and from research posts on the planet Zola where they migrate to every year. Pink in color, and glowing with stored energy the galactic whales are capable of not only travel in space at sublight speeds, but are also capable to jump to hyperspace; a feat impossible to any other living creature in the galaxy. Galactic whales appear in many ways to resemble and respond like the whales of Earth, even emitting whale song. However, for a beast that is over a kilometer long, the whale song of the Vahla Ena can be devastating to the electronics of nearby ships and mecha causing them to short out or even explode, although a pinpoint barrier will shield a mecha or ship from their song.
Furthermore, the song shorts out all combat computers and sensors while in range. They are intelligent and can differentiate between friend and foe; protecting allies from their damaging song.

The planet Zola holds a special significance for the whales as they travel their every year drawing energy from Zola's sun as they leave orbit. Traveling in a large herd with an enormous, even by galactic whale standards, white galactic whale leading the herd the sight is awesome to behold. Little was known as to the reasons behind the Whales traveling to Zola every year until it was discovered that a Whale cemetery exists on the planet where whales that have lived for 7,000 years go to die. Although it would appear that the whales die in a swirl of energy and color the truth is that they are achieving rebirth by giving their energy so that new young Whales are born into the herd. The only whale that doesn't go to the cemetery to die/be reborn, is the white whale which is believed to be millions of years old, and 8 times the size of the other whales, it also is aesthetically different from the others as well.
Sadly the whales are a target for poachers who crave the bodies of the whales to use for starship fuel and for use in fold drives, as they create a smoother and more efficient engine. However, on the flipside the whales have healing properties. As they pass the planet Zola bacteria from the whales enters the atmosphere of Zola. To a non-native of Zola this would be a bad thing if the bacteria got into a wound of some description unless it was properly healed, however near to the whale cemetery the springs and river nearby have minor healing abilities due to the whales bacteria and energy. As the whales are fold capable they can potentially be found anywhere in the galaxy, but the one place they are always guaranteed to be seen is Zola.

Native Home : Space
Size (Length) : 1200 meters
Size (Height) : 100 meters Numbers : 30+ (travel as part of a herd)
Movement : Sublight & Fold capable

[CaptGloval]

Ahaha.. I knew that post about Space Whales would appear.

I mean, it is possible that the Protoculture or whoever were the creators of the Vajra copied from the Space Whale a lot of things like the ability to fold, the ability to manipulate energy or even the body design and materials itself.

[ReddyRedWolf]

I just learn that Macross Eternal Love Song game UN Spacy tried a funnel weapons system during a invasion of Earth by a two fleets fighting each other.

Moruk Leplendis Meltrandi main fleet and Bodol Burado Zentradi main fleet.

A year after Bodol Neld main fleet came knocking a year before. (Macross 2036)

Guess that's why in Macross Plus at 2045 Earth's sky was packed with defense sattlelites.


I haven't played the game though but with Brera "Kira Yamato" Stern in Macross Frontier can't help but imagine a VF with funnels backed up with ghost drones.




I also learned that the X-9 Ghost was not the last attempt at a unmanned fighter.

The Neo Glaug whose basis was the piloted Variable Glaug.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Also, regarding something that was posted a while back on the VF-0 floating due to being less dense than water: a Nimitz-class carrier displaces (i.e. weighs) 100,000 tons. ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND TONS. It floats not due to being less dense than water but by the shape of the hull which pushes the water aside allowing it to stay afloat.

Weight has nothing to do with whether something floats. As you pointed out, the shape displaces water. The mass of water displaced must be the mass of the carrier. The material the ship is constructed from may be more dense than the water, but the total ship (which includes the air*) isn't.

This is why the displacement of a ship is its weight/mass (while on Earth); the mass of water displaced is the ship's as well.


See Archimedes and the Eureka Incident.
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)


*Think of the air in a ship like a fluid that fills the "container" of the hull to the brim.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Hmm so the vf27 seems to have superior tech all around.

- super pack like performance or greater
- passive (if not active) stealth
- built in fold capability
- variable beam weaponry
- probably has micro missiles though we haven't seem them yet
- evidence of brain wave control and holographic cockpit

So what can defeat a technologically superior enemy? MUSIC! A stunning song to disrupt/distract the brain wave control is key

What happened to built int fold system? I would expect after YF-19 and YF-22, VF-25 series would have one.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

What happened to built int fold system? I would expect after YF-19 and YF-22, VF-25 series would have one.

The YF-19s and 22s all use optional external fold equipment.

- Tak

[squaresphere]

Also there's a line of thinking that the VF-25 was designed with cost/performance in mind. Even though the VF-19 won the super nova contract we only saw them as spec ops fighters in M7. There could have been problems such as added mass production cost or the inability to scale down the tech for cheap production.

[.Mero]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Hmm so the vf27 seems to have superior tech all around.

- super pack like performance or greater
- passive (if not active) stealth
- built in fold capability
- variable beam weaponry
- probably has micro missiles though we haven't seem them yet
- evidence of brain wave control and holographic cockpit

So what can defeat a technologically superior enemy? MUSIC! A stunning song to disrupt/distract the brain wave control is key

Spoiler for ep 10 spoiler:

Since Brera is revealed to be (part)cyborg my guess is its not even Brain wave controlled but he just interfaces with it. Might almost be the same, still its different. It certainly explains his high manouverability and since when interfaced it probably just feels like an extension of his own body, also eplxains the cockpit. no windows, cause he just gets the images fed from the visor data.

So the cockpit is just there for visualisation to the viewer

[squaresphere]

Could be. This "cockpit" could be very much like the cyber space that Graces uses when she's "online". Plugging directly into the VF's control and sensor system would possibly provide greater ability than just using the brain wave system.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Here's an interesting thing I learned from the Macross 7 Trash manga.

The students of Macross 7 do home learning using VR and holographics for a school setting and socialization.

Apparently the Virtual Net is like our internet.

But the cybernetics developed by Macross Galaxy takes that a step further.

Also this would also explain that Sheryl never did go to school in Galaxy as they use a less traditional system of learning.


Grace said that Frontier takes pride in its well rounded curriculum.

That's why we never saw Mylene in school in M7 despite being a fourteen year old.

[squaresphere]

^ makes sense. she did tell Gamilin that she was getting ready for tests at one point even though we never saw her in school.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Also there's a line of thinking that the VF-25 was designed with cost/performance in mind. Even though the VF-19 won the super nova contract we only saw them as spec ops fighters in M7. There could have been problems such as added mass production cost or the inability to scale down the tech for cheap production.

One theory is that the VF-19, while being OMGWTFPWN, wasn't really that practical because your average grunt is not OMGWTFPWN, and so a VF-19 is wasted on him. There's also the events of VF-X 2 to consider; after the rebellion in 2050, the UN Spacey may have become wary of OMGWTFPWN high performance fighters in the hands of the masses; should fleets revolt, they'll have craploads of VF-19s in their arsenal, which makes kicking their asses and pacifying them that much harder. But if the fleets are using the crappy nerfed VF-171s, then even if they go rogue it's not so bad for NUNS SOCOM units to fight them off in VF-22s.

Also while the VF-25 is fairly underwhelming compared to the VF-19, it does have more upgrading potential since a lot of its capabilities are from FAST packs; all you need to do is keep making new packs rather than new fighters - we've seen similar things in practice with the US Air Force and US Navy; for example the F-16 is a no frills fighter - very much like the basic VF-25 - but the various updates it's received over the years, such as the LANTRIN system, make it still a viable fighter early into the 21st century, despite the design being almost 30 years old.

The real reason? To all of us, the VF-19 is a fucking awesome fighter. Kawamori pretty much admitted in an interview that he made the VF-171 because he didn't want to turn the VF-19 into cannon fodder. Doing otherwise would have unleashed a tsunami of nerd rage the likes never seen since Evangelion.