Sword Art Online - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[creb]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

That much was clear in the anime -- they said the new game uses a different, safer model of headset (that just happens to be backwards-compatible technology-wise).

So, despite Kirito having been in a hospital with his Nerv-Gear, they decided to let him take it home with him? It's not really banned if it's....not actually banned.

[Unknown Soldier]

So let me get this straight. ALO is SAO with new graphics and flying tacked on? And it has terrible Korean-style grinding for skill level-ups? It is even has crummy zergy open-world PvP? So, it's just like Aion? So RCT is NCsoft then?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by creb

So, despite Kirito having been in a hospital with his Nerv-Gear, they decided to let him take it home with him? It's not really banned if it's....not actually banned.

Yes, they let him have it, and he would have insisted on it because it had Yui's program stuck in its memory. I think that, given all that happened, they could let him keep his unit. It's not like he doesn't know the risks. It's certainly banned for the general public, though; they're all using the new units.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by creb

So, despite Kirito having been in a hospital with his Nerv-Gear, they decided to let him take it home with him? It's not really banned if it's....not actually banned.

They mentioned that Kirito did some bargaining with the government, which presumably includes him keeping his NerveGear. And I'm presuming that while the government can ban the sale of NerveGear, they have no viable means of confiscating already sold NerveGears. They can confiscate the SAO players under auspices of the ongoing investigation.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yes, they let him have it, and he would have insisted on it because it had Yui's program stuck in its memory. I think that, given all that happened, they could let him keep his unit. It's not like he doesn't know the risks. It's certainly banned for the general public, though; they're all using the new units.

I know this isn't supposed to be taken seriously, but wouldn't it be safer if Kirito actually removed the battery before going into ALO? ... or at least buy a new AmuSphere? I mean, given how 300 are still trapped, it "seems" safer that way. It also seems that ALO ONLY trapped 300 ppl in NervGear not X amount of ppl in AmuSphere.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

I know this isn't supposed to be taken seriously, but wouldn't it be safer if Kirito actually removed the battery before going into ALO? ... or at least buy a new AmuSphere? I mean, given how 300 are still trapped, it "seems" safer that way. It also seems that ALO ONLY trapped 300 ppl in NervGear not X amount of ppl in AmuSphere.

He was rushing too much. Also we don't know if he had enough money to buy an Amusphere, the fact that he can play it on his NervGear saves him time and potentially having to ask for money from his Mom to get one, which would cost him at least another day since he'd have to get the money then go out shopping. Also I doubt he could remove the battery without preventing the system from working.

[Deltaray]

Originally Posted by Xacual

He was rushing too much. Also we don't know if he had enough money to buy an Amusphere, the fact that he can play it on his NervGear saves him time and potentially having to ask for money from his Mom to get one, which would cost him at least another day since he'd have to get the money then go out shopping. Also I doubt he could remove the battery without preventing the system from working.

And he wouldn't have his haxed skills without NerveGear.

[Swordstriker21]

He wouldn't have Yui either. We can't have that.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Deltaray

And he wouldn't have his haxed skills without NerveGear.

Well, which benefits the narrative (to allow him a chance to reach his goal in time), but of course Kazuto didn't know that going into it. But...

Originally Posted by Swordstriker21

He wouldn't have Yui either. We can't have that.

...yeah, this is really he main point. He needs to keep his NerveGear because Yui is inside it. This is also why he couldn't reset it in any way.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Swordstriker21

He wouldn't have Yui either. We can't have that.

In the end, this is the important thing... although, the lack of a transfer "USB" from one VR device to another seems unsatisfying.

Heh, imma take it to the Mechanics section later.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by creb

So, despite Kirito having been in a hospital with his Nerv-Gear, they decided to let him take it home with him? It's not really banned if it's....not actually banned.

This reminds me of a real life case, my brother bought a combat knife which months later was recalled because (if held wrong) you might cut your own fingers. Did my brother sent his old model to be substituted by a new model? Hell no! So in SAO terms, nerv-gear was banned from being sold in stores and the model is no longer produced, but that does not mean some people are selling them on e-bay or have decided to keep their old units, it is quite pointless for the goverment to knock on the doors of these people to repossess their nerve-gear, what is the risk if SAO has been shut-down? Yeah, this sounds like a recipe for disaster (kirito, your are wide open for a killing-hack!), but this kind of scenario does happen in real life (recycling of old and potentially risky products).

Originally Posted by Swordstriker21

He wouldn't have Yui either. We can't have that.

I bet Yui, his items and the saved game were save on the equivalent of SSD drive/SDHC card, meaning that even if the battery died (two years is a long time) after he turn of his equipment, everything should be safe even if checked years later. I mean, after seeing the video of WoW players whose player characters have been deleted, it is an obvious precaution.

[relentlessflame]

Incidentally, I was rewatching the episode and I remembered the conversation we had a few page back about the flight controllers. I had missed the first time that Agil actually explains that you can learn to fly "unassisted" but it's difficult, but then we see Kirito fly easily with the "assist controller", so that does explain why Lyfa can fly without the controller, and gives you a hint as to her own skill level in the game (i.e. very high). So yeah, it's basically like what we figured out, but I just missed the explanation in the setup the first time.

[LKK]

I've noticed some diehard gamers mention how they would be as reluctant as Kirito to delete all their items. As a non-gamer, I had a different interpretation of that scene. I don't think he was concerned about losing the items he couldn't access anyway but was worried about losing the one item he could access - namely Yui. I think his hesitation and glance at Yui indicated he feared deleting all his items might also delete her as well. Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way, but I think Kirito had a valid fear. That was my fear as well.

[Divini]

Originally Posted by LKK

I've noticed some diehard gamers mention how they would be as reluctant as Kirito to delete all their items. As a non-gamer, I had a different interpretation of that scene. I don't think he was concerned about losing the items he couldn't access anyway but was worried about losing the one item he could access - namely Yui. I think his hesitation and glance at Yui indicated he feared deleting all his items might also delete her as well. Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way, but I think Kirito had a valid fear. That was my fear as well.

From that perspective, I don't think so.

Kirito didn't have a scared or emotional look, he had a look that said "Ehh, do I really have to do this?" >_<

[GundamZZ]

Originally Posted by LKK

I've noticed some diehard gamers mention how they would be as reluctant as Kirito to delete all their items. As a non-gamer, I had a different interpretation of that scene. I don't think he was concerned about losing the items he couldn't access anyway but was worried about losing the one item he could access - namely Yui. I think his hesitation and glance at Yui indicated he feared deleting all his items might also delete her as well. Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way, but I think Kirito had a valid fear. That was my fear as well.

My interpretation is animators are using "Alart" to laugh at themselves. If you google it, you would know what I mean.

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by LKK

I don't think he was concerned about losing the items he couldn't access anyway but was worried about losing the one item he could access - namely Yui. I think his hesitation and glance at Yui indicated he feared deleting all his items might also delete her as well. Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way, but I think Kirito had a valid fear. That was my fear as well.

At first, I also thought that way, but then again, it wouldn't make sense since Yui has already been summoned, meaning the item has effectively been used. The expression on Kirito's face also shows more of awkwardness rather than fear, like the look of not willing to part with all his items that he obtained for the past two years. So, yeah.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by LKK

I think his hesitation and glance at Yui indicated he feared deleting all his items might also delete her as well. Fortunately, it didn't turn out that way, but I think Kirito had a valid fear. That was my fear as well.

Adding to the chorus, I don't think so, because if that's what he was worried about he could have just deleted each item manually one by one. The message probably should have said something like "Would you like to delete all unequipped items?" or something like that. I think he was just sad to let all those items go.

[mangamuscle]

TBH I also thought Yui might get deleted, leading to some sort of quest unto "where do deleted items go'" and such. Gladly it didn't happen and it make sense, since old times once you use an item to summon an ally the item either disappears or become worthless (unless it is the lamp where a genie inhabits, but even then the genie would only get mad and a substitute item should be easily found).

[aohige]

Originally Posted by kyp275

automobiles didn't start off as a necessity, but I know what you're saying. Still, it largely depends on the justice system and the culture whether something like that will be banned.

However, it's important to note that VRMMO itself isn't what killed people, it's NervGear, which is why the Amusphere was created to replace it.

Tons of things kill thousands every year, many more kills far more than mere thousands every year, such measurement alone isn't enough to outright ban something, else cigarette and alcohol would've long been banned in Japan.

Originally Posted by Vmem

Thanks for picking up my end of the debate kyp275 lol

Anyway, aohige, I was originally refering to the banning of VR technology in general, I can agree with banning Nervegear for its lack of safety measures. However, for the many reasons people have already pointed out, I can understand the gov't allowing SAO players to keep theirs, even just as a momento of their time in SAO.

As for the treatment of VR technology, in general I would expect society to react exactly as you have described. I don't believe it's the correct course of action, hence why I noted the "japanese" in the LN are quite forward thinking in being able to embrace VR tech via the Amusphere. However, I must note that there also exist similar to SAO around us. For instance, texting and webrowing on your cellphones has made a profound impact on our society, and probably cause hundreds, if not thousands of deads every year. you read about people driving and texting/web browsing, or walking and texting, and getting into accidents often. there're some advertisement campaigns to increase awareness of the danger, but the Government has done nearly nothing in terms of regulation.

Those are absolutely not the same thing.

If you want to compare it with texting or cigaretts, you need to bring an example where cigaretts and texting that has malicious intent to kill people on the spot was created. SAO and the Nerve Gear wasn't just a freakin' health hazard. It was used to intentionally kill people.

How can you not see the massive difference there.

It's like a car where the designer designed the thing to explode and kill the passangers.
Or a cigarette that was intentionally poisoned with the intent of racking body counts.
Or a texting that.... well, it's not even possible, but a cellphone that texts deathnote messages that stops the hearts of reciever.

Seriously.

If those things existed, and caused four thousand people to die in a short time frame, I can guarantee you in real life, a "slightly modified safer versions" will not come to existence, due to social panic to ban the technology involved. It may not ban texting and cigarettes, but it will certainly ban that specific technology, and will not allow any copies of it to float around, regardless of how "safe" the company claims. Absolutely not in Japan.

It's one thing to suspend disbelief for the sake of enjoying the anime.
It's another thing to make futile defense to claim its realism.

[Oroboro]

I think you're underestimating the public a bit. (That's not something said often. )

VRMMO technology did not kill people. The booby trap inserted into VRMMO technology specifically designed to kill people killed people.

John Q Public isn't going to say "They should ban any and all methods of virtual reality now and forever because a terrorist hijacked it once!" It'd be more something like "I think VR-Technology needs stricter regulations and government safeguards to make sure something like this never happens again.

I mean really. "Crazy Death Game" is a card that can only played once. Kayaba had the advantage of total surprise in a market he created all for himself. But now everyone is watching.

Edit: Speaking of hijacking, terrorists hijacking planes. We didn't ban air travel outright because of it. People were wary. Airport security increased 1000fold. That's the kind of response the public would have. Because everyone just sees him as a terrorist.