Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Astrana]

good episode, really god fighting scene, who would know Virtue would join in together with Dynames. Obviously Saji is going to work in Space, probably end up fighting against gundam.

Q: What are the those pods in the end of episode? Nuclear head?

[dreamless]

somehow this episode feels like a Setsuna x Tieria episode

On the other hand, I guess the reason behind all those "useless scenes" for Saji and Louise is finally revealed, they are all building for the most emotional five minutes in this episode. Saji IS the main character now

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Well I agree a little mystery would've helped but unfortunately unlike you or me a lot of people who watch these series don't have that big of an attention span so they tend to get bored easy.

I just think making Celestial Being more open for interruptation would have made things more interesting. I won't argue that none of what they've done has produced some good, but the fact that they don't see themselves as either good or evil, only necessary, makes you wonder more about the latter, than the former.

That they refuse to answer what makes them necessary frustrates me to no end, and until they do answer it, I believe it would be simply safer to destroy them outright due to the potentional threat they obviously pose.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

I'm a conservative. I see what Celestial Being is doing as a change for the sake of changing. They haven't proven there's a need for what they're doing, therefore there is no need for what they're doing.

They have this ambition they want to fullfill and they're killing people to do it. On top of that, the risks (the destruction of human civilization) far outweigh the gains (presumably the unification of humanity under one banner...which is not necessarily a good thing).

What's worse they've basically told everyone on the planet to do what they say or else. I don't know about you, but that makes me want to start something if only out of spite.

I think it's somewhat of a vain effort for us viewers to judge Celestial Being as good or evil at this time, since in the end it's the authors that decide everything. I'd like to take three of my favorite examples, Frank Herbert's Dune, Wild Arms 2, and Gensou Suikoden 3.

Spoiler for Dune:

Paul Atreides started a jihad that killed billions of people because it's supposedly inevitable and the only way to save humanity from extinction, all from some supposed fortune-telling power coming out of some psychedelic stuff called Water of Life. And later his son enslaved the entire humanity for thousands of years with an iron grip and forced everyone to worship him as the one and only God, again because of the same fortune-telling power tells him it's the only way to save humanity. And in the end both of them are depicted as the Good guys.

Spoiler for Wild Arms 2:

Irving Von Valeria funded a terrorist organization that took many innocent lives, including those of the friends of the main character, to force the countries to unite against an alien menace that somehow only he can see, and in the end he's depicted as the true Hero who saved humanity from total destruction.

Spoiler for Gensou Suikoden 3:

Again here the main antagonist, Luc, sees some future of doom for humanity, and in order to change this future of death, he decides to sacrifice himself and kill a million innocent people in the process. Here he's stopped by the main characters, so unlike the previous two cases, he's depicted as a tragic hero here instead of the Messiah.

So you see, it's really all depends on how the authors decide to write the things, it's futile for us viewers to judge whether something in the show should be intrinsically wrong or evil even if it's the massacre of billions of innocent lives. Heck if they wanted, they can say the Destiny Plan of GSD is Good because Dullindal has a crystal ball that tells him it's the only way to save humanity from certain extinction.

[Chase]

Originally Posted by Coffee

Spoiler:

From the looks of it, it seems more likely they are in a shuttle/transport to me.

could be, from the preview my first thought was Ribbons was gonna be in a MS.

[FlareKnight]

Well on the good news front the leg situation has been settled. Would have been over the top and just glad they kept it to the hand which was enough of a loss.

Guess they need Saji moving forward so he can be involved more with the plot down the road. Though would have been fine if he could have stuck around with her. Doesn't seem to be in a condition where she couldn't be transfered to a hospital in Japan.

Was starting to wonder if that was the real Tieria. Guess having his access limited and the hacking job pushed him over the edge. Pretty good combo job with Setsuna showing that the Thrones aren't all that.

Yeah just waiting for the death call on Saji's sister. She is getting in deeper and it just can't end well.

[ThoHell]

Episode started out good then went boring but ended interesting.

Guess Setsuna isn't the only wanting to take down the Throne Gundams. But man the first person to come support Setsuna was a shocker. Tiera and Setsuna make an awesome dou, they were about to win.

So, it seems like the observers might be the traitors huh. It's Gundam vs Gundam now.

Were those pods filled with new Gundams? If so, guess we'll be seeing lots of new Gundams soon.

Oh yeah, Louise still has her legs. Guess some of use were wrong. But WTF? Louise and Saji going different ways? I don't think that will last long and it will be Saji who comes back for her.

[Chase]

Originally Posted by ThoHell

Episode started out good then went boring but ended interesting.

Guess Setsuna isn't the only wanting to take down the Throne Gundams. But man the first person to come support Setsuna was a shocker. Tiera and Setsuna make an awesome dou, they were about to win.

So, it seems like the observers might be the traitors huh. It's Gundam vs Gundam now.

Were those pods filled with new Gundams? If so, guess we'll be seeing lots of new Gundams soon.

Oh yeah, Louise still has her legs. Guess some of use were wrong. But WTF? Louise and Saji going different ways? I don't think that will last long and it will be Saji who comes back for her.

Well although i thought Lockon was going to show up first, im not totally shocked that Tiera showed up firs after what he said to Setsuna couple episodes back about the thrones. And yeah, Setsuna/Tiera=dynamic duo

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by Papaya

10/10 with no complaints for me, I LIKE WHERE THIS IS GOING

I don't. Just giving out GN Drives to "up" the competition sounds lame.

I was hoping for something like Nuclear-powered Flag Graham Custom.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I can't help but get the idea that these gundam meisters are just deluded idiots and pawns for something bigger.

Like they really are believing in "eradicating war" but are misguided.

[Funkatron]

I ccan easily see Alejandro as an arms dealer of somesort. He's using CB as a way to advertise the new gundams as formidable weapons, give the 3 blocs a tease of what they could have, and then he just gives them a chance to have them... probably at a price too boot. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Ali were in cahoots, bringing around larger conflicts to gain a profit. Basically he's twisting CB's supposed ideals on its head, going from iradicating wars to creating them. Hints of SEED Destiny anyone?

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I don't. Just giving out GN Drives to "up" the competition sounds lame.

I was hoping for something like Nuclear-powered Flag Graham Custom.

Heh, that would be pretty badass, but this show seems pretty eco-friendly =P

[Tsukiyomi]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Heh, that would be pretty badass, but this show seems pretty eco-friendly =P

I think it's totally still plausible. Upon seeing the image of the 30 pods, the first thought was Nukes?! and then new Mobile suits?!

maybe they will be nuclear powered drives... who knows.

I still think the writers will keep going with there only being 5 existent true GN drives left.

[Narutaro]

I was under the impression that Thrones only have 1 real gn drives inside their ship that supply power for their fake gn drives in their gundam, if Alejandro start mass producing them and then give them to 3 different faction, where did they get the power from?

[kanon78]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

I ccan easily see Alejandro as an arms dealer of somesort. He's using CB as a way to advertise the new gundams as formidable weapons, give the 3 blocs a tease of what they could have, and then he just gives them a chance to have them... probably at a price too boot. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Ali were in cahoots, bringing around larger conflicts to gain a profit. Basically he's twisting CB's supposed ideals on its head, going from iradicating wars to creating them.

I totally agree !

[Flame-X]

i get the feeling that Alejandro is the younger version of the celestial being's leader(forgot his name).

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by dreamless

I think it's somewhat of a vain effort for us viewers to judge Celestial Being as good or evil at this time, since in the end it's the authors that decide everything. I'd like to take three of my favorite examples, Frank Herbert's Dune, Wild Arms 2, and Gensou Suikoden 3.

Spoiler for Dune:

Paul Atreides started a jihad that killed billions of people because it's supposedly inevitable and the only way to save humanity from extinction, all from some supposed fortune-telling power coming out of some psychedelic stuff called Water of Life. And later his son enslaved the entire humanity for thousands of years with an iron grip and forced everyone to worship him as the one and only God, again because of the same fortune-telling power tells him it's the only way to save humanity. And in the end both of them are depicted as the Good guys.

Spoiler for Wild Arms 2:

Irving Von Valeria funded a terrorist organization that took many innocent lives, including those of the friends of the main character, to force the countries to unite against an alien menace that somehow only he can see, and in the end he's depicted as the true Hero who saved humanity from total destruction.

Spoiler for Gensou Suikoden 3:

Again here the main antagonist, Luc, sees some future of doom for humanity, and in order to change this future of death, he decides to sacrifice himself and kill a million innocent people in the process. Here he's stopped by the main characters, so unlike the previous two cases, he's depicted as a tragic hero here instead of the Messiah.

So you see, it's really all depends on how the authors decide to write the things, it's futile for us viewers to judge whether something in the show should be intrinsically wrong or evil even if it's the massacre of billions of innocent lives. Heck if they wanted, they can say the Destiny Plan of GSD is Good because Dullindal has a crystal ball that tells him it's the only way to save humanity from certain extinction.

Authors might try to present all sides equally, but it's still up to me of what's good and evil. If they simply make Celestial Being the "good guys" by default or comparison, that doesn't make them any less evil as the case may be.

Also Dullindal's Destiny Plan wasn't evil. He aquiring and using a super weapon was. That was the true failure of the Seed Destiny Ending. He basically picks a fight for the hell of it, when he's pretty much got the whole world, except a couple nations, in his pocket. It was out of character if you ask me and just a convinent excuse for a "final showdown".

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Authors might try to present all sides equally, but it's still up to me of what's good and evil. If they simply make Celestial Being the "good guys" by default or comparison, that doesn't make them any less evil as the case may be.

Also Dullindal's Destiny Plan wasn't evil. He aquiring and using a super weapon was. That was the true failure of the Seed Destiny Ending. He basically picks a fight for the hell of it, when he's pretty much got the whole world, except a couple nations, in his pocket. It was out of character if you ask me and just a convinent excuse for a "final showdown".

That whole ending to Destiny was written badly. Even though this sort of wreaks of Destiny in the whole "organization secretly inciting war" angle, I think 00 will do a better job at advancing it.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

That whole ending to Destiny was written badly. Even though this sort of wreaks of Destiny in the whole "organization secretly inciting war" angle, I think 00 will do a better job at advancing it.

When you think about it, Logos didn't so much incite conflict as take advantage of it when it arised. In OO, no one except Ali has actually caused a fight to start for their own personal gain.

I don't know what's his face and the other guy are up to. Something tells me they're still watching how things play out, while manipulating events so that things don't go too smoothly for Celestial Being. Literally they're trying to make the show more interesting.

And OO has had more than it's fair share of bad writing. There's just less bad blood compared to Seed and Destiny. You don't have "anti-fanboys" and "UC Fundamentalists" crying all of the place about it.

[Crusader]

Yes yes this is a very good episode. I am so glad those Trinity siblings were slightly humbled. To bad they aren't dead though. I am very happy that this happened and Teira gains some likeable points for this one.

Alejandro and Ribbons, have to have thier hands knee deep in whats going on behind the scenes. He does remind me of Gilbert Durandal and I hate to say that though, but i can see that he does have some sort of agenda behind the scenes. The question is, what does he gain from all of this.

After this episode, Ali Al Sarshes is definetly a marked man. I am sure that Lockon and Setsuna will be knocking at his door, whenever he does show himself again.