[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Oliver

Notice that it isn't an account but safe-deposit boxes of cash.

I keep calling it an account for some reason... Maybe it's because I don't know the difference between that and safety deposit boxes. But when I say account I'm just talking about the money

[Jan-Poo]

The main difference is that the bank knows absolutely nothing about the content of the vaults. while in a normal account the bank knows every single money movement you make.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by TTR

I mean, if it were massed produced at some point, wouldn't Ange have seen it at some point in her life?

You'd be surprised. It takes a very large volume of a mass-produced plushie for it to be ubiquitous enough for everyone to remember seeing them. I have about twenty examples of mass-produced plushies that would be completely unknown for anyone outside the 300km range.

[Smeckledorf]

I think that the person who knows where the gold is now and the person who wrote the numbers could be the same person. But, Kinzo could have written the notice in the tunnel to the gold and someone could have merely found his paint since then. Or perhaps he appointed someone to guard the gold in case of his death. I would say the chance the person knows where the gold is and put up the same account is one in the same is 70%.
I was thinking 0715=Battler and 1129=his sin or the date it was committed.
I doubt that the number is just to an account, then the person would likely just be trying to alert people to how Kinzo's money was made. Unless, Nanjo is a fake trying to get the gold because Kinzo never paid him his money, aka the money in those safety deposit boxes. However, that would likely have nothing to do with Battler's sin.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

And even if you suppose that the one that uses the red paint during the game just copied the idea from the one who made those on the way of the gold... you still need to think that this person has seen those, which means, this person knows where the gold is.

I get what your saying, but I don't really see it that way. The magic circles are used for a completely different reason, and we know there are knock off circle artists from episode 5. The red scribbles saying 'At the tenth twilight your journey will end and you will reach the village of gold' were written there a long time ago and mirror Rosa's hint to Eva. As far as we know Kinzo might have written them for people who figured it out, and Kinzo's dead. The only other people who may be capable of writing those numbers are the servants, who are also dead, and Hideyoshi, Kyrie, Krauss, Natsuhi, and George who may be faking. If what your saying is true than we have chose one of these people to have had already solved the epitaph previously.

IMO though the number writer should know about the safety deposit boxes that's a given.

EDIT: Okonogi had a theory that Kinzo gave the answer to the riddle and the ring to Eva because he thought she would be a better choice for the head. I wonder if that actually has any merit. Or if it's a hint. Or if it's just him rambling.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Judoh

EDIT: Okonogi had a theory that Kinzo gave the answer to the riddle and the ring to Eva because he thought she would be a better choice for the head. I wonder if that actually has any merit. Or if it's a hint. Or if it's just him rambling.

Well, for one we know with red that Kinzo could not have done this with his own hands, but it may be a hint that the answer to the riddle actually became a bargaining chip of sorts.

[Smeckledorf]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I get what your saying, but I don't really see it that way. The magic circles are used for a completely different reason, and we know there are knock off circle artists from episode 5. The red scribbles saying 'At the tenth twilight your journey will end and you will reach the village of gold' were written there a long time ago and mirror Rosa's hint to Eva. As far as we know Kinzo might have written them for people who figured it out, and Kinzo's dead. The only other people who may be capable of writing those numbers are the servants, who are also dead, and Hideyoshi, Kyrie, Krauss, Natsuhi, and George who may be faking. If what your saying is true than we have chose one of these people to have had already solved the epitaph previously.

Not necessarily true, I believe there was a tip where servants said that they would be patrolling the mansion and they would look at a wall turn around then look back and there would be strange drawing in red. I believe that the red paint used, and this may sound crazy, is disappearing-reappearing paint. This would explain why such elaborate images could be done in mere minutes in episode 1 and the like. However, this does not explain how someone would know Eva was supposed to return to her room. Unless you go back to thinking that she was going to fake her death and ended up being murdered because of that.

[ErenselTheJester]

Originally Posted by Oliver

So far, no sensible results were achieved trying to connect them, at least I don't remember hearing any.

Meanwhile, I remembered the idea I just had. The Discord seal that always scares people into splitting.

Well, what if it's meant to be an extra hint, to arrive while people are busy solving the epitaph, that simply arrives out of order and references the second twilight, hinting at the way one is supposed to tear apart those who are close?

I'm guessing what I said and the small tiny fact that gives it back up doesn't count as sensible? To something more important, I think that the money in the Deposits Boxes was the same amount as the gold, and its more than likely that the gold was changed into paper money as a fail- safe in case Kinzo never found an inheritor. But this is just a guess.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

I'm guessing what I said and the small tiny fact that gives it back up doesn't count as sensible?

Or I don't remember it, my memory is far from perfect. Giving a link to a previous post of yours so that it can be included in the discussion would be a bit more productive, if you ask me.

[ErenselTheJester]

Here

and

Here

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by Smeckledorf

I believe that the red paint used, and this may sound crazy, is disappearing-reappearing paint.

Ah, found it. http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...42#post2998642

Back when I described this trick, I thought of the room swapping in hopes that it may allow us to somehow bypass the chain repairing trick. It doesn't.

But it neatly explains how the red paint may instantly appear on a door without anybody lying.

[DgBarca]

If you turn the numbers into letter with 07151129 (a = 0) you can have
0 7 15 11 2 9
a h p l c j
ah...if only it was 07151124...it could have mean chapel and not chapjl

[Smeckledorf]

Originally Posted by DgBarca

If you turn the numbers into letter with 07151129 (a = 0) you can have
0 7 15 11 2 9
a h p l c j
ah...if only it was 07151124...it could have mean chapel and not chapjl

Hm... 9 and 4 aren't all too different. This could have been rushed or the dripping paint could have malformed the last number.

How about this, we rearrange the number numerically to get 01112579.
0+1=1+1=2+5=7+9=16? Maybe 16 is a hint?
If I count the order of from family head as 1 and down, counting Kinzo as family head, 16 would be Kanon.

[Jan-Poo]

16 is also Zepar's number which is believed to point to Kanon since yo+shi+ya (4+4+8) makes 16

but still I don't see the progression. 1+2 doesn't make 5 and 5+7 doesn't make 9

[Smeckledorf]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

16 is also Zepar's number which is believed to point to Kanon since yo+shi+ya (4+4+8) makes 16

but still I don't see the progression. 1+2 doesn't make 5 and 5+7 doesn't make 9

I edited the way I posted it, so it looks right.
0+1=1+1=2+5=7+9=16
That way each number only appears once.
But we may have something here.

[Jan-Poo]

yet... if the author of that red scribble intended to make someone think about rearranging the numbers in such way so to end with "16" which then should make them think about an unofficial ranking system where Kanon is 16th, and that should make them think that Kanon is the culprit or something...

seriously this author must have been incredibly optimistic....

[Smeckledorf]

To rearrange something numerically does not take a genius. Then detecting a pattern like that one seems simple enough. Saying the 15 family members are the first 15 and Nanjo is above the servants as a guest, that would leave Kanon as 16. Otherwise, we would have Gohda as sixteen if you don't count Nanjo. If you don't count Kinzo then Kumasawa is 16.
This is far from perfect, but to me this some sense. And let's say the scribbler is optimistic, I would say Shanon is quite optimistic herself.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

The main difference is that the bank knows absolutely nothing about the content of the vaults. while in a normal account the bank knows every single money movement you make.

This is really important. It's also why Nanjo Jr. felt the money was "dirty." Nobody stores huge piles of cash in safe deposit boxes, that's what a bank account is for.

If someone put cash in those boxes, they very pointedly did not want anyone aware of the "transaction" to the recipient or his or her heirs.

[Judoh]

Not to get off topic, but I just noticed something. One thing we've been saying is that Maria dies when the epitaph is solved. Well I just noticed that from episode 4 Maria is given an umbrella by Kinzo and there is no mention of her receiving a letter from Beatrice,and the same thing happens with Erika in episode 5 (minus the umbrella) so there is no letter from EP4 and on. Rosa has died in the first twilight consistently since that first happened in episode 4. It probably doesn't make sense in the same way Maria's death does since it's not compatible with episode 1. But if you don't include episode 1 this seems like a valid first twilight condition for Rosa.

[Smeckledorf]

Well, Maria's piece seemed to originally spread the legend of the witch. So, it would make sense that she is kept alive. However, if she is ever picked to 'die' by Beatrice then it would be a faked death.