Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Mirron]

Personally speaking, I find him the most interesting, if not the most cool, simply because we know so little about him, and I'd like to know more about him.

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by mielipuoli

That's not a character trait? Coulda fooled me.

A longcoat, and eye-patch, black & white clothing, "evil looking" black spiked swords, and rides a motorcycle.

I said that in response to this. A villain shouldn't be 'cool' based on their physical appearance - no character should.

And that's exactly what I meant, Raiser. Her first appearance, and the only lasting impression is her negatively impacting another character. You could probably have replaced her with any of the other Huckebeins and it wouldn't have mattered. If you're saying a character's role in the story is the same as their character, that simply not true.

[00-Raiser]

But her role is directly related to their character. Actions speak louder than words. Look at what her defeating Signum told us: she's dangerous, ruthless, powerful, arrogant, etc. Then you look at her interaction with Arnage immediately afterwards and you can see more traits.

I just think you shouldn't try so hard to constantly devalue who she is and what she's achieved.

[Justin_Brett]

Yep, those are character traits.

Her doing something in the story is not a character trait. Neither is being a villain, since that term usually doesn't exist as we know it in-universes.

And honestly, she hasn't really achieved much, even if the story thinks she's totally scary.

[00-Raiser]

I think beating Signum is a pretty big achievement. If it isn't, then that's a huge insult to Signum.

Her doing stuff shows off character traits. Kicking a puppy is not a character trait, but the fact that the character did such a thing shows what kind of traits they have.

[Arcc]

Well they say the sky's the limit
And to her that's really true.
But my friends you ain't seen nothin'-
Just wait til she gets through!

'Cause Cypha's bad, she's bad, come on!
You know she's bad, she's bad, you know it!
You know she's bad, she's bad, come on!
And the whole world has to answer right now
Just to tell you once again-
. . . that I prolly deserve whatever I get for posting that. 'Sup.

[Justin_Brett]

Considering how one-dimensionally evil Cypha seems to be, I wouldn't put it past her to do that.

And I'm not insulting Signum or anything, but look at what Cypha intended to do: kill her. Which failed. She also probably intended to kill Fate on the ship, too, but that didn't work. Keeping Hayate from firing off her spell had about as much success as well.

Really, she's consistently failed to accomplish a lot of stuff that was her direct intent.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I said that in response to this. A villain shouldn't be 'cool' based on their physical appearance - no character should.

Bull. Appearance is just as important as personality when it comes to character traits. Take Quasimodo, his appearance is his most defining trait. Hell, his entire story revolves around his physical appearance.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Bull. Appearance is just as important as personality when it comes to character traits. Take Quasimodo, his appearance is his most defining trait. Hell, his entire story revolves around his physical appearance.

Quasimodo's appearance defines him because he (and everyone around him) have used it to define him. Beyond his rather extreme case, I agree with Justin_Brett. The only time appearance matters in characterization is when there's focus on it. And the focus on Cypha is clearly on her actions (or... successful action, in this case).

[Keroko]

And I still disagree vehemently. There's a reason why character design is such an integral part in... well, any media really. Anything from the way they do their hair to the clothes on their skin tells us something about a character. Gandalf would not nearly look as much as a wise old wizard without his hat, robe and staff. Legolas without his pointy ears and graceful clothing would not be much of an elf and whoever heard of a Middle Earth dwarf without a beard? The transformation from Strider to king Aragorn relied heavily on appearance, going from rugged ranger to noble king.

Character appearance always matters. You cannot possibly tell me you could take the characters seriously if everyone dressed in trashcans. What would the first thought be if you saw them? "Wow, what a bunch of loonies" "Heh, that's a funny trick" whatever you thought of, it becomes a defining trait of the character for you.

[spawnofthejudge]

Woo. Newsflash: Everyone in a given setting looks more or less the same. It's when someone stands out from the general horde that it matters what they look like. If everyone was in trashcans, I'd eventually tune it out, while a single person in a trashcan when everyone else is in suits would be striking. In this setting, we have a sort of expectation when it comes to Barrier Jackets, and as long as it fits that general expectation, everything beyond that is window dressing.

Regarding Middle Earth, each character was significantly visibly different more to differentiate race, rather than character traits (This includes Gandalf; Wizard is a race there).

And you're not really addressing what Justin_Brett was saying: A character being 'cool' shouldn't be based on what clothes they wear. I mean, how superficial are we, anyway? Is Signum cool because of what her Barrier Jacket is? Or is she cool because she is essentially iron duty personified?

[Akiyoshi]

And still Cypha apparently didn't have any other notorious or important trait to her character aside from "being the woman who defeats Signum and Agito" even Tsuzuki himself keep bringing that up as if he has nothing else to write about Cypha xDU

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

I think beating Signum is a pretty big achievement. If it isn't, then that's a huge insult to Signum.

Signum shamed herself by losing to someone like Cypha, she must be condemmed to fight mooks and smallfries for the rest of her career.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Signum shamed herself by losing to someone like Cypha, she must be condemmed to fight mooks and smallfries for the rest of her career.

The way you think really baffles me.

[Arcc]

Originally Posted by Demi.

The way you think really baffles me.

I believe hipsters these days call that sort of thing "thinking ironically." But my sense of humor was totally like that before irony went mainstream and became just another word for snarky backward tsundering.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

And you're not really addressing what Justin_Brett was saying: A character being 'cool' shouldn't be based on what clothes they wear. I mean, how superficial are we, anyway? Is Signum cool because of what her Barrier Jacket is? Or is she cool because she is essentially iron duty personified?

it's the whole package thing, it's both appearance/looks and personality, true that more often than not it leans towards personality more but it does come down to both.
In order to really grasp the feel of a chracter, looks do play there part no matter what anyone says.

Whether or not Cypha is "villian" enough is entirely up to ones opinion.

I mean the Hucks leader's one action is not entirly evil or "villain" in nature, she left Hayate alive, only injured her and plus her attitude is not so "villain" like either.

In contrast Cypha is the only one we know for sure that has wanted to kill and followed through on that action depsite not actually killing in the end.

you can chalk that up to Signum being one tough cookie.

Question, I've been wondering but since Su-chan is a cyborg(I'm not sure thats the right term for what she is but I forgot what it was, I'm not qutie savvy on the terms or know how of the Nanoha verse) her magic works slightly different right?
If I can recall, it's called IS or something?
I was puzzled and wondered what hope does Su-chan have to doing anything then I remembered she was a cyborg.

Guess I'll goggle it all later.

[Justin_Brett]

Only, Hunchback of Notre Dame was a movie about appearance not mattering. Quasimodo's personality is pretty much the exact opposite of what he looks like.

[Keroko]

The point I was trying to make was that character designs are very much character traits, and shouldn't be discarded so off-handedly as not mattering.

Yes, whether Cypha's clothes are cool is subjective. But then, so is her evilness of her actions, as the many many pages of this thread show. Just because the result is subjective doesn't mean you can't design a character with the intent to make her look cool.

... And I can't believe I got myself involved in yet another Cypha debate. Will I ever learn?

[Miles Teg]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Only, Hunchback of Notre Dame was a movie about appearance not mattering. Quasimodo's personality is pretty much the exact opposite of what he looks like.

A little correction Hunchback of Notre Dame is a (very good) novel written by Victor Hugo way before being a movie (in 1831 to be more precise)

[Justin_Brett]

Well I haven't read that. From what I've heard, it sounds far more depressing and morally ambiguous.

And they really aren't. If you're describing a character and start talking about what they wear, then you're not talking about their personality.

[00-Raiser]

True, but fashion choices do reflect personality so to a degree you can guess what a character is like based on outer appearence.