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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 20 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 24 | 39.34% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 23 | 37.70% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 13.11% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 4 | 6.56% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.64% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.64% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll |
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2013-03-08, 01:01 | Link #41 | |||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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When most of the words are about the Sibyl System, the subject isn't going to be about Makishima. Psycho-Pass is about the Sibyl System and its flaws. The main question is whether it's preferable to keep it and its flaws, or to overthrow it and replace all that it provides to the country.
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2013-03-08, 01:13 | Link #42 | ||
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That's an important takeaway, as you yourself seem to recognize. Quote:
Then I remembered that there are former Japanese lawyers somewhere based on what was revealed last episode. Even if they are too old to be active lawyers again, I suppose you could have them train a new generation of lawyers. Maybe slowly transition from Sibyl justice to a more conventional judiciary. I doubt that Sibyl would want that, though.
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2013-03-08, 01:13 | Link #43 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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So what is it you believe she's going to do exactly? You seem pretty certain so enlighten me.
Is she going to reform the system, destroy it, or help the system? The wavering btw is because the Sibyl has a point she cannot deny. This is not a black and white issue, else the decision making here would be fairly easy for her. Quote:
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2013-03-08, 01:30 | Link #44 |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Such a good episode! It is a bit disappointing that most people's suspicions were confirmed and the brains were all criminally asymptomatic as expected, but given how glorious the rest of the ep was, I don't care.
Akane was great this ep. So determined, so intelligent! So cool. Maybe she's working with Sybil for now, but it's hard to believe that she'll be fine with being their puppet in the long term. She's not going to stand for it, and she even negotiated her own terms for saving Makishima. I particularly liked the way that she reminded Gino of Kougami, the way that she felt she understood Makishima a little, and her conversation with her friends and Kagari. Once this is over, Akane might be able to work out a way forward...that is, if Sybil doesn't decide to kill her once it has Makishima's sweet, sweet brain in a box. ...I really hate that Kagari is confirmed 100% stone cold dead, though. I liked him. I suppose the way the series has been going, there wouldn't have been any real screen time for him if he'd still been alive, anyway. Yayoi and Shion have had hardly any. I think Masaoka and Gino will still have some more in them, though. By now, the second OP has really grown on me. The lyrics are appropriate and the animation is also very nice. I like the new puzzle effect they've had for the past few eps. |
2013-03-08, 01:38 | Link #45 | |
Hiding Under Your Bed
Join Date: May 2008
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Or, perhaps a better way of putting it is that whenever it may appear to be ruthless, the perceived action isn't done with being ruthless in mind. Any ruthlessness inherent in the system is a side effect, and not a driving force. TL;DR: Intent matters. I do not believe a system with the goal of Sybil can be accomplished weighed down by individual-scale morality. I reject the premise that by not concentrating on individual-scale morality that the system has to be ruthless. I will say that a system that is primarily concerned on individual-scale morality can not be a good system (on the scale we're talking about concerning this show; like physics, I think the rules change based on the scale ), with the understanding that the world isn't black and white and that alternatives to such an approach doesn't require being <insert any of the many extreme adjectives you can imagine>. Does that mean I would like to live in such a system? No, of course not. But, I'm selfish. In the more chaotic societies we live in in real life, I'm firm in the belief that I can (and do) better than in a society like one envisioned by Sybil, even if it means many others do worse.
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2013-03-08, 01:52 | Link #46 | ||||
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A strong case can be made that some elements of Sibyl do in fact cross the line.
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2013-03-08, 01:55 | Link #47 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Thinking on it, there is one decent thing that came out of episode 20. There seems to be a consensus now that Akane is the main protagonist.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking at OP2 again, there's a shot where Akane and Kougami have their weapons pointed at Makishima. But what if Akane isn't aiming at him, but rather at Kougami behind him? She's holding a Dominator so it wouldn't work against Makishima, but it'll be fine against Kougami. I can see this happening if she wants Makishima's plan to succeed. (And of course, the Dominator would be set to lethal mode for extra pathos.) After they finished up the artwork, the second OP is the best part of the show.
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2013-03-08, 02:09 | Link #48 | ||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Rather than worst protected....you should say, the laziest, one of the most pathetic societies ever conceived Quote:
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2013-03-08, 02:24 | Link #49 | |||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Again though, asserting that Akane understands Makishima any better does not seem quite right either. She doesn't understand the mind of a sociopath like Makishima. Quote:
Reject it entirely or partially? Entirely would imply she wants to destroy it. Partially, would mean she only wants to reform it. OR will she actually accept Sibyl?
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2013-03-08, 02:49 | Link #50 |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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I think he's talking about "needs of the many outweigh needs of the few".
Of course based on Fate Zero, I think we can figure out what Urobachi thinks of that particular logic train, even by someone who is genuinely trying to act in a self less manner. I can't imagine we're meant to think very highly of it when it overlaps so heavily with the possibility that Sybil is interested in maintaining its control/expanding its consciousness more than it's interested in helping society. I mean...the way Latent criminals are treated IS a somewhat eye raising situation, and when you think about it, leads to a bit of a catch 22 setup. Even if you DID decide that long term latent criminals needed to be segregated from the rest of the population, one wonders why latent criminals necessarily have to be locked away in padded cells. If isolation was the objective, and if Japan's country side is so heavily depopulated, why not establish communes for low threat latent criminals to live in? If Sybil has really given up on these people, why not at least segregate them from society in a more humanitarian way? Everyone has GPS tracking implants installed that can flag nonlethally armed security drones if they leave the commune without permission. Wouldn't this separate latent criminals from the population, while also giving more consideration to their humanitarian well being? ...except if the last half of the Psycho-path season has told us anything, is that something like this wouldn't work. Not because there'd be anything wrong with a commune setup. No. The real problem is on the Sybil systems end. Mercy and compassion is a luxury of the strong. And if there's been a recurring element to Sybil, is that it's not strong. It's incredibly fragile. In the span of a few episodes, we've seen multiple ways that the system could be destroyed outright by the smallest of groups or individuals. A more regular society could afford to situate more criminally inclined people in the countryside. But a system as fragile as Sybil? It'd be impossibly dangerous. Not to mention the possibility that communities like these might become more innovative and mentally dynamic than the people operating under Sybil in the cities. Even if such communes had to put up with higher internal crime rates, Sybil can't exactly risk the possibility of non approved individuals outshining its groomed citizens. I think this is something that makes the Sybil system particularly morally repugnant. In order to secure it's rule, Sybil made the population passive, and security forces minuscule and leashed enough to not pose a threat to Sybil. It needs to cultivate weakness. But this very same weakness forces it to be cruel. Sybil can't AFFORD humanitarian treatment for the entity of its population. The episode where the HUMAN BRAINS got revealed pretty much stated this information outright. Anyone interpreting it any other way wasn't watching for content, or was just being willfully ignorant.
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2013-03-08, 03:33 | Link #51 |
Basileus Basileōn
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Sybil doesn't make sense at all. The brains were contradicting themselves throughout the episode. It's alright for them to commit murder, but others get terminated if they do so. As if. "It is only logical" that psychopaths Sybil cannot scan should run the place? WTF?
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2013-03-08, 03:49 | Link #52 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Sybil thinks Akane is obedient and will obey the law of the land. They didn't realise she expect everybody to follow the same laws. Even brains in boxes.
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2013-03-08, 03:49 | Link #53 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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I think it would come, sibyl will be judged...it might not be now but it will come
it very much admitted being a bunch of deranged killer brains... Akane is going full steam bad ass this episode, Sibyl better beware, She has Makishima's abilities and now knows everything too, I think Sibyl misread & underestimated her too much. that was really good how she was shown "conversing" with different people when she was thinking about what Sibyl said though I feel it's not exactly the entire truth. Loved how she finally fully shows her wares as a detective, surprising gino (like always just gawking at the sides)but even yayoi & masaoka. Now I only wish it would not end like that famous gen story once again with a sacrifice >.<, but it will still be epic. Quote:
Akane: "if you guys broke the law sometime in the past, you should atone for your crimes in a befitting way" > Sibyl : "Our contributions to society are more than enough compensation for the damage we caused in the past" Sibyl : "It is true that everyone of us here used to have many problems with our personalities" "...we were all criminally asymptomatic persons...." that is why Akane said : " Are you saying that Sibyl is a monster that is a collection of wicked people's brains...?" Sibyl itself admitted to this fact. to the argument that "evil" or "bad" individual brains together as a whole makes a "good" collective...hmmm color me unconvinced, actually it's more total BS for me. the only reason Akane didn't outright blast them to kingdomcome, is because she IS good and knows there are proper ways with less collateral damage & better chance of success than sudden reckless actions. just like for an addict there has to be gradual rehabilitation. This society has been addicted to Sibyl, yeah it feels good & might look good on the outside but it is not the healthy way especially in the long run. The only question now is how they would do the rehab.A healthy balance between Order & not really "Chaos" but "true living" with individual will the very basis of this statement is questionable, I don't really see this "perfection" Sibyl is trying to attain. Every human is unique in one way or another there really is no cookie cutter mold, sure there are plenty of similarities but no one individual is exactly like another or else we will no longer be human we would be BORG. There will ALWAYS be another makishima, no matter how many brains you add to the matrix. society can only hope to approach this by extreme measures/controls like in most police state propaganda, or like in the education system of Shin Sekai yori. so where does it end when they have a thousand?, a million? when most of the population is merged? Those societies are where progress and development has been stunted. hardly a perfect society. People in Psycho-pass Japan are already towing the line even in things like music, man they can't even do proper security...
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2013-03-08, 04:47 | Link #54 |
ShipCore
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Age: 31
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Wow...2 more episodes....
Spoiler for Prediction:
I really like the story bcuz its protraying that good and evil are just thoughts that we human created and what matters is the meaning behind those actions! its like saying lying is bad, but people lie because they wanted to protect something,....Its like saying wishing Happiness is a bad thing!
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2013-03-08, 05:15 | Link #55 | |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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The all-psychopaths option appeared the most likely option by far, based on the earlier episodes, but I don't like it as a story choice because it makes the Sybil brains plainly evil people and removes ambiguity. It's overkill. And with this ep, it should no longer be possible for anyone to stretch the interpretation of Touma's lines to avoid that. But hey, it seems that right from the time the brains showed up or even before, Urobuchi wasn't aiming for that sort of ambiguity about Sybil in the first place. He's made it very clear that Sybil is bad news. |
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2013-03-08, 07:48 | Link #57 | |
SIBYL salesman
Join Date: Feb 2011
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But on the contrary, even Akane reluctantly agrees that the system brought peace and order, taking the common idea of the ends justifies the means (not saying that she agrees with their approach). |
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2013-03-08, 09:14 | Link #58 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I kind of agree with Auria that the dystopia aspect and world building in general is a bit weak but I do enjoy the characters and all their different philosophies. Although we can say most of the ideas and philosophies come from other sources, I do enjoy how Urobuchi made the characters mouth pieces for many different ideas (even if they are not his own) but it's a good way to introduce ideas and arguments into a narrative. Looking back on this series I really think the dialog will end up being my favorite part of Psycho Pass. You see how people can think so differently. This would be awesome to me (although I am sure there will still be some action).
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2013-03-08, 11:37 | Link #59 | |||||
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But I think I know why Sybil didn't go with that. In order for people to buy into the Sybil system when it was first introduced, it was probably necessary to make most of them believe that recovery from a bad Psycho-Pass rating or a cloudy hue was a decent possibility. And so people with a bad Psycho-Pass reading are treated like people that need to be locked away in an asylum for treatment. No doubt the official story is that they "get better" there. Of course, anybody paying attention probably notices that successful rehabilitations are very rare. But then, lots of people probably don't pay such close attention, as we saw with how Yayoi really did think she would one day be successfully rehabilitated and eventually continue her musician dream. Now, if Sibyl had communes set-up for latent criminals, then it feels less like treating the mentally ill and more like something akin to apartheid (i.e. creating a permanent, segregated subclass of humans). It would basically make the "These people have almost no hope of getting better" fact a bit too obvious and transparent to the general populace. At least that's probably what Sibyl thinks. One of the big problems with Sibyl is that perception is everything to Sibyl. Treating people humanely is very much secondary to that, if a consideration at all. So yes, you're right. Sibyl is fragile. Anything that relies completely on a false image is very fragile. Most governments have their dirty secrets of course, but few hide anything on par with what Sibyl hides. Quote:
But yeah, what exactly was Sibyl before it noticed the first loophole? I think I would have preferred it if Sibyl was explained to have originally been an AI-based system, but it switched to the multiple brain system after it started running into a lot of loopholes. Eventually, the AI system morphed into an entirely human one. Quote:
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Here is where I think Gen's limitations as a writer undermine things a bit. Psycho-Pass really would have benefited from a lowkey "Day Off" episode. Yes, a beach/hot springs episode, basically. More precisely, an episode dedicated to showing the good sides of Sibyl Japan. Lots of happy people, lots of smiling faces, lots of peace and order. Maybe end it off with a cliffhanger where Makishima is shown plotting his next move just so the episode doesn't feel totally fluffy. But then, I'm not sure if Gen is good at writing this sort of light and fluffy material. Quote:
Kougami, Akane, Gino, Kagari, Tomomi, Yayoi, Makishima, and Sibyl itself all have different viewpoints on Sibyl, and all have different viewpoints on the conflicts seen throughout this anime's narrative. No two characters are in 100% agreement, but it's also pretty rare for two characters to be in 100% disagreement (the closest here is ironically Makishima and Sibyl itself; ironic since Sibyl apparently wants to add oil to its water).
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2013-03-08 at 11:51. |
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2013-03-08, 11:48 | Link #60 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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