True Tears - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Key Board

wait, wait, wait

I get the feeling that I'm being blamed. I don't like that >_<

Let me translate things

眞一郎が乃絵に恋心を抱いておらず、心の底ではずっと比呂美を求めていたことは
これまでの話の中で明らかなのに、何故彼はいまだに積極的な行動に出ないのだろうか？

Shinichiro held no romantic feelings towards Noe, his heart has always been pursuing Hiromi from the start. Knowing that, we wonder why he hasn't made a move towards Hiromi until now? (then the article goes on and tries to explain things)


その原因のひとつは、彼自身が抱える問題にあるのかもしれない。事故をきっかけに眞一郎の母親 と和解し、
眞一郎との兄妹疑惑も晴れた比呂美は、これまで抱えていた問題を一気に解決してしまった。
だからこそ彼女は、全身全霊を眞一郎との恋に打ち込める状態にある。

One answer to that, is that Shinichiro had personal issues. It is true that because of the recent accident, Shinichiro's mother had managed to make amends with Hiromi. The fear and suspicion of incest has been removed, and Hiromi started to seriously think of pursuing Shinichiro.

ところが眞一郎は乃絵と約束した絵本を描き上げる目途がついていないし、
麦端踊りを周囲が期待するように立派に踊れる自信もない。
その自信のなさが比呂美に対する自信のなさに繋がっているように思える。

However, Shinichiro still had not fulfilled his picture book promise with Noe. He was also preoccupied and quite nervous with the upcoming Mugihara festival dance. We have reasons to believe that the source of his unrest is related with his lack of confidence to face Hiromi properly.

そしてもうひとつは、乃絵に対する懸念、気がかりだろう。
眞一郎は乃絵に恋心は抱いていないものの、放っておけない何かを感じているように見える。
それが、その気もないのに告白してしまった罪悪感なのか、
絵本の続きをなかなか描いてやれない気後れなのかはわからない。
だが、乃絵のことを気にしていることは確かだ

One more reason is his concern towards Noe. He was burdened by it. Shinichiro wanted to help her in a platonic manner but he could only think of vague solutions.

We do not know if he is guilty from of having given a lip service confession (earlier episode) or the fact or if was bothered because he had trouble drawing an acceptable ending for the picture book. But we do know one thing, his concern for Noe is genuine.

See, I'm not the one making up the "no romantic feelings" part
Don't shoot the messenger >_<

Thats interesting that just answered the few remaining questions that i had. When you use the word burden it makes sense. After reading this im sure that if Jun had not pressured Shin to go out with Noe he would have never asked her on his own since his feelings were platonic not romantic. Basically there was never any other choice it was always Hiromi and the route Shin took to finally get to her. This info makes things even sadder for Noe but in the end she accepted everything so alls well that ends well.

[Key Board]

I didn't see how the word burden could produce such a strong connotation. You get the impression that it's equivalent to having to pay a million dollar debt. I don't think that's meaning you want.

The article stated that his concern was genuine
How about I change it to "troubled"

I think Roan's translation conveys the message better.

"The other reason is his concern and worry towards Noe. Shinichirou, while not having romantic feelings for Noe, appears to be feeling that he can't leave her the way she is."

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I didn't see how the word burden could produce such a strong connotation. You get the impression that it's equivalent to having to pay a million dollar debt. I don't think that's meaning you want.

The article stated that his concern was genuine
How about I change it to "troubled"

I think Roan's translation conveys the message better.

"The other reason is his concern and worry towards Noe. Shinichirou, while not having romantic feelings for Noe, appears to be feeling that he can't leave her the way she is."

When you used the word burden it felt like you saying that he burden with all these events on his shoulders. His feelings for Hiromi, his feelings for wanting to help Noe,his troubled relationship with his mother, the dance ect ect. Its a strong word which is why i took it in the context that you gave you in. If you using troubled that would also work but also change my outlook on what the article was trying to portray. In the end I think Shin had so much to deal with for a person his age and he just didnt know what to do or was unable to move forward till the near end.

Ill check out Roan's translation.

[ani_d]

Honestly, that official newsletter isn't much different from what we were speculating on episode 11. I fail to see how an official newsletter--which aired before the final episode with nothing but speculation--debunk all the things we've been discussing here about Shinichiro's feelings for Noe. Since I have respect for official things, I'm going to go ahead and say it's an official speculation nothing more lol (I appreciate the translations.)

Originally Posted by roan

Translation for the above staff-side commentary (the news letter was released several hours before the airing of the 13th episode): (Again, it's a staff commentary that aired 'before' episode 13. Which staff member, I wonder?)

...
So then, if one were to ask whether a conclusion was brought to Shinichirou, Noe, and Hiromi's love triangle, the answer is no.
This is because Shinichirou hadn't ended his relationship with Noe and made the first step to build a new one with Hiromi. (Love Triangle concluded in episode 13)

While Shinichirou did not bear any romantic feelings towards Noe and it was clear that from the story up until now that he had been longing for Hiromi all this time at the bottom of his heart, why had yet to any action? (This is what we were given when we first started with the show. It's something we already know from the start. In fact, majority of the people never considered Shinichiro falling out of love from Hiromi ever since episode 12.)

The first reason for this is probably ("Probably" = speculating) a problem that he himself has. Hiromi's conflicts had been resolved (fact) all at once, having made up with Shinichirou's mother and blood relationship dilemma with Shinichirou being cleared.
That's why she's in a state where she can fully pursue her relationship with Shinichirou. (This sentence isn't speculating, it's a fact. It happened in Episode 11)

However, Shinichirou hasn't yet shown any signs of completing the picture book he promised to complete for Noe nor does he have the confidence in being able to dance at the Mugiha Odori as well as the people around him are expecting of him. (The more I read this, the more I feel that this official newsletter was written BEFORE episode 12.)
That lack of confidence may be ('may be' = speculating) connected to his lack of confidence towards Hiromi.

The other reason is his concern and worry towards Noe. Shinichirou, while not having romantic feelings for Noe, appears ('appears' = speculating) to be feeling that he can't leave her the way she is. (This implies that Shinichiro can't leave Noe alone, and they're "speculating" about the reason why. Just like we once did here in this thread.)
Whether it is from the guilt he feels for not giving her a sincere confession or the embarassment of not being able to continue the picture book can't be said.(Again, this really doesn't tell us anything, guys. It's purely speculation.)
What is definate is that he is concerned about Noe. (Amen. And with that, episode 13 aired and Shin cleared everything up with the keyword 'furueru'.)

[Key Board]

The article was intentionally posted on the 28th, a day before the final

I think it was clear they had every idea on how things would end.
It seems it was posted an appetizer. I can see why they would feign ignorance.

I did notice something hidden in there, though.

The more I read this article, the more I realize that this isn't really about the current love triangle. But rather, an allegory of what happened in the past with Shin's parents.

[anselfir]

this is a pretty decent ending. tried to tie all the threads together, except that poor brother. lulz for him i guess. there certainly wasn't spectacular and inspirational material, but hey, it is ok. noe needed more life development than the other girl, so her resolution is easier. at least we get a decent male lead off of her development. a man after my own heart probably.

the 'ending' already happened when the whole sibling thing fell apart anyway. one can even see it from day 1, which i did with due proficiency.

[relentlessflame]

I had to leave for the week, and I see we're right back where we started on this translation/mistranslation of "furueru". Honestly, I think it's clear by now that people will simply interpret it the way they want to interpret it. I mean, seriously, what evidence would it take to change someone's mind at this point? Each side seems to believe their interpretation is fully supported by the anime itself. I guess that's why they call it an "interpretation"...

The real lesson learned for me is how important it is for translators and editors to be very careful in their choice of wording, and to try to avoid bringing their interpretation of dialog into the mix when it isn't prescribed. In a symbolism-driven ending like this, one word can totally change the way people interpret the dialog. How much more is missed by the fact that many can't pick up on the more subtle Japanese emotional cues that even a translation doesn't "fix"! I'll be curious to see what Bandai Visual does when it eventually releases this episode in North America.

(Ironically enough, "my heart trembles" (which could seem pretty close to "shakes"/"quakes" on a literal level) is also an English idiom that means something else entirely. It'd be like saying "...when I look at you, I'm trembling in fear." Totally different, but it seems so similar on the surface! No matter what you do, you can change the whole scene by just fudging with the translation of this one single word. And as a result, we have three pages+ of debate on which rendition, and corresponding interpretation of the entire show, is correct. Crazy!)

[cheesie]

Re: Newsletter

One of the things that would shoot its credibility to pieces is to pinpoint certain inaccuracies in other newsletters during the time Episode 1-12 is airing. This is the part where fans come in, and I, as a major player of the longtime wankiest, most exasperating love triangle debates of the FFVII fandom where we nitpick even the tiniest, smallest details to bits... would like to sit this one out. </random>

[Sinestra]

I completely forgot i wanted to touch on this after the series ended. One of the issues between Shin and his mom was him not wanting to taking on the Sake business and wanting to go to art school. I believe in the final episode the school asked him to submit something again. Can we assume when with the final scenes that the problem was solved, and that his mother accepted his decision like his father did? It was not spoken of again after the argument they had at the beginning when his mother opened his mail.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Can we assume when with the final scenes that the problem was solved, and that his mother accepted his decision like his father did? It was not spoken of again after the argument they had at the beginning when his mother opened his mail.

I think we can assume this, yes. As you alluded to, the closing scenes show Shinchirou's father showing "the works" to... the hired help? ... that other kid, anyway (I honestly forget if he had a name... ), and the mother comes by and offers them drinks. Meanwhile, Shinchirou's pursuing his art. The impression you get is certainly that all the tension in the house is gone. I would say that Shinichirou's mother has accepted both Shinichirou and Hiromi for who they really are, and stopped applying her own bias/prejudice to them. I think that happens to every parent at some point.

[pandabear02]

i heard this is a nice anime to be watch. really want to watch it

[Phoenix14]

It was a very average ending in my opinion...

I didn't particularly like this series though.

[hirahira]

Originally Posted by PhantomX

Hiromi and Shin were always pretty lame/unlikable (from my point of view), and now they can go be lame together.

Well said! But I still feel so sorry for Noe ;_;'

Originally Posted by Rasuberi

That was sure a weird experience for me.

Spoiler:

I both love and hate the ending. I dislike Hiromi and her set-up with Shin, and love Noe to bits... However the ending was very fitting. Yet while I feel the whole series and ending was masterfully created... I still couldn't help but feel a bit pissed off at Noe not winning.

I got a little teary-eyed at the scene where Noe was looking at the unfolded pictures from the picture book, and thought that was all the emotional turmoil I'd go through. Till the end I was fine... then after the minute or so of watching Noe at the end, and a few more minutes staring at my computer... I broke down in tears. I just Noe to be happy.

It was exactly the same for me

[yakusoku]

It was a good ending, but I expected a little more (more Shin and Hiromi childhood moment or somethings). This series was a good watch, and I was most fascinated by the OST. Pretty sad at the end when Noe sees the rocks :|

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by yakusoku

It was a good ending, but I expected a little more (more Shin and Hiromi childhood moment or somethings). This series was a good watch, and I was most fascinated by the OST. Pretty sad at the end when Noe sees the rocks :|

Yes it was pretty sad, I thought those rocks would be gone.
But they're still there, Noe remembered that Shin also loved her, though he chose Hiromi.

At least Noe got her tears back in the process.

[anselfir]

well the ending with noe suggests a jaded look of romance in terms of its position in larger life. it seemed the right step to take for a show that strove to transcend the narrow romance genre concerns and vision.

[Mister_LOVO]

I love this end and I think it's fair

[Taricitous]

a quick question to the final resolution,

Spoiler for resolution:

after all those events happened we see; jun moving on, noe moving on+making friends again (yay grats for her ^^), aiXnobuse been together then we have shinichiro walking to school by himself (seeing noe with her friends) and a class change (maybe a year has go by since nobuse no longer sat behind him) and hiromi playing basketball there is no supporting evidence that SHINICHIRO and HIROMI are together is there???? maybe its just me but if the writers wanted to end the series with shinichiroXhiromi why didnt they show a resolution with them happily together???? its this suppose to be a hint or something??? arhhhh why cant they just end things clearly ><

anyone with same or similar thoughts??? enlighten me please!

[anselfir]

that's not at all a problem. this detail coheres very well with teh overall design of hte show, in its emphasis on not only romance but life in general. the resolution is not entirely the love love thing in whcih teh female is surgically attached to the male lead, like an accessory or japanese housewife, but hiromi et all moving forward. the ending there is not the romantic resolution, which was already decided very clearly.

there remains the question of whether this life life thing is worked into the show properly. i find it easier to treat the show as a romance personally.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Taricitous

a quick question to the final resolution,

Spoiler for resolution:

after all those events happened we see; jun moving on, noe moving on+making friends again (yay grats for her ^^), aiXnobuse been together then we have shinichiro walking to school by himself (seeing noe with her friends) and a class change (maybe a year has go by since nobuse no longer sat behind him) and hiromi playing basketball there is no supporting evidence that SHINICHIRO and HIROMI are together is there???? maybe its just me but if the writers wanted to end the series with shinichiroXhiromi why didnt they show a resolution with them happily together???? its this suppose to be a hint or something??? arhhhh why cant they just end things clearly ><

anyone with same or similar thoughts??? enlighten me please!

Well, seeing as the show didn't even tell us what part of Hiromi Shin fell for, he was just into her from the very beginning. The writers probably want to give spotlight (lasting impression) on Noe and her 'sparkling' tears rather than overkilling us with another ShinxHiromi scene. They're just staying true to the theme. Noe = VIP lol