Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[aeriolewinters]

Mami going crazy was not expected.

Kinda expected this. This is how Homura was shown to be cold to the Mami in this timeline. But I kinda understand why she broke down.

She thought she can escape death, but instead she was subjected to a worse fate. and when everything crashes down; Even she'd lose her head(no pun intended).She's a tough one to crack, but when you crack her. She'd break immediately.

[Kaoru Chujo]

So rich. And with Yuuki Aoi and Saitou Chiwa switching emotional places back and forth, I am fully sated with seiyuu awesomeness.

No wonder MadoMagi is now over 625 threads (625,000 posts) on 2channel. This puts it above shows such as Macross F, Bakemonogatari, Angel Beats, Gurren Lagann, and Lucky Star, closing in on School Days (729), and working its way towards Nanoha (884), and Strike Witches (933). Still far behind Haruhi (1708), and K-On (2062). But it has done this in only ten episodes....

[Hedd]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

Kickass episode.

The events in Madoka's dream in the first episode were actually of the last timeline Homura abandoned. So for that to not happen again... Homura can't fight Walpurgis? Because if she does, she'll fail and/or Madoka will be compelled to contract with QB. If it's impossible for anyone but Madoka to defeat it, then I don't see what Homura can do at this point. Her goal is to keep Madoka alive and preferably MG-free. Fighting Walpurgis alone (and not succeeding) or sacrificing her own life a la Kyouko are both methods that will NOT lead to her achieving her goal.

The only way I can see things working out now is if:

- Homura somehow is magically able to defeat Walpurgis on her own this time (but even then, that doesn't necessarily put an end to the threat of witches like someone was earlier suggesting).

- The other MGs come back from the dead through the power of love and friendship! YEAH! (Um, no.)

- New MGs appear to help Homura (all this time I've been wondering if Homu, Saya, Kyo, and Mami were the ONLY MGs in the ENTIRE world or not).

- Homura does another reset.


To me, Homura resetting is the most likely expectation at this point. But I'm sure Urobuchi will surprise and not disappoint.

Oh, and also: glasses and braids Homura. Too adorable. Must... control... self.... GAH!

I've got a theory that gives another option to this. In the OP, you see Madoka embrace herself during a transformation. The theory is that Homura takes the soul gem of an alternate MG Madoka and gives it to the most current Madoka. You attain the soul gem to receive MG ass woopage while retaining the original soul in the body. This method would require at least one reset and another dark dirty parting of ways paved with tears.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by O.F Death

Dear god, I think I teared up a little. Homura had to outlive her friends four times.

only 4? it is 15,531

[Hagoshod]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

Kickass episode.

The events in Madoka's dream in the first episode were actually of the last timeline Homura abandoned. So for that to not happen again... Homura can't fight Walpurgis? Because if she does, she'll fail and/or Madoka will be compelled to contract with QB. If it's impossible for anyone but Madoka to defeat it, then I don't see what Homura can do at this point. Her goal is to keep Madoka alive and preferably MG-free. Fighting Walpurgis alone (and not succeeding) or sacrificing her own life a la Kyouko are both methods that will NOT lead to her achieving her goal.

The only way I can see things working out now is if:

- Homura somehow is magically able to defeat Walpurgis on her own this time (but even then, that doesn't necessarily put an end to the threat of witches like someone was earlier suggesting).

- The other MGs come back from the dead through the power of love and friendship! YEAH! (Um, no.)

- New MGs appear to help Homura (all this time I've been wondering if Homu, Saya, Kyo, and Mami were the ONLY MGs in the ENTIRE world or not).

- Homura does another reset.


To me, Homura resetting is the most likely expectation at this point. But I'm sure Urobuchi will surprise and not disappoint.

Oh, and also: glasses and braids Homura. Too adorable. Must... control... self.... GAH!

Or Homura could just hop on Walpurgis and blow herself up.

Kyoko's method of defeating Sayaka was a Chekov's Gun for Homura to model her own solution after. It's pretty easy to see.

[Dextro]

So I've watched the episode and thought I might chime in with my theory on what was Madoka's original wish and it's quite simple indeed. Think back to the first episodes, back even before QB entered the scene being chased by Homura and you'll recall that Madoka says that she wanted to be cool and sure of herself and that's what we got to see as the personality of timeline 1 Madoka.

Of course this is just a theory and it's so simple it might be a bit off but if Occam's Razor holds...

As for the episode "meh"... I didn't find it as awesome as people are portraying it. In fact I thought it was a bit on the weak side with the pace being a bit too frantic for my tastes. Still it was a nice info-dump and I'm clearly seeing my judgement being clouded by my favoring of "Senjogahara" Homura instead of "Hanekawa" Homura :P

[Crontica]

Looks like the only way for them to win is if someone pulls a Nirvana Fairy Tail when Madoka turns into a witch, unfortunately Homura's wish counts that as a failure.

[ThereminVox]

And in the end, Homura's secret identity is... Homura.
Awesome. Awesome. Nothing else could have been this satisfying.

Rika-loop confirmed, complete with the despair and minus the obfuscating stupidity. Anyone suggesting that MS-Madoka surviving Walpurgis without going Witch would be enough is missing the key of Homura's promise to Madoka. She asks Homura to save her from Kyubey, and save her from herself, meaning that the Madoka contract is the Bad End.

Chiwa Saitō could have coasted on being Senjogahara forever and I'd have still said she was fantastic, but she went above and beyond here. Homura's mercy-kill of Madoka was the most heart-wrenching scene I've watched in years. It was enough to turn your blood to ice. God damn.

[Guardian Enzo]

I blogged it of course, but this is a tough episode to comment on, really. You just have to watch.

Spoiler for 10:

So in the end, we've gone from Faust to "Monkey's Paw" to Bokurano and finally apparently landed on Higurashi. Kudos to those who called out that similarity. I find the pain and anguish hits harder in this series though, as the tone is much more realistic in many ways.

The heartbreaking scenes for me were watching Homura live through all that pain, over and over, in sped-up fashion - even being the one to have to end lives sometimes as a mercy killing. It's no wonder she turned herself into an emotional flatliner - how else could she possible have coped with all that pain and death and survivor's guilt?

Of course the key moment is when Madoka asks her to keep her from falling under Incubator's spell - it's the one thing she can't say no to. But is there any real hope? I think there's a reason Incubator seems to hear Homura - she's the one wildcard in the story. Her timebending makes her the one element it can't manipulate totally. Inky is the master manipulator though, and so far has maneuvered the pieces so that no matter what happens, by the time of the endgame Homura has already lost. How can she change things materially enough to give herself a chance? That's the overarching question with two episodes left.

[FlavorOfLife]

Come to think of it, the out for Homura is already there. Madoka has been increasingly powerful every loop, probably due to her power stacking. At some point she should be able to take out the W-night witch without expending all her energy.

However the reverse effect is that everytime she becomes more powerful, she will become a more dangerous witch. Since the fate of the MS is fixed, Maokda could survive W-night but still end up a world destroyer a few years down the road.

Alternatively the way to end it was already shon by Madoka in one of the loops. If Homura takes a grief seed, lets Madoka handle the witch and purifies her soul gem, all is resolved (assuming Madoka does not have her soulgem shatter during the fight and ignoring long term consequences)

[Shadow5YA]

Holy crap. I just realized that the opening song is actually Homura's story.

The lyrics fit perfectly.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Dextro

So I've watched the episode and thought I might chime in with my theory on what was Madoka's original wish and it's quite simple indeed. Think back to the first episodes, back even before QB entered the scene being chased by Homura and you'll recall that Madoka says that she wanted to be cool and sure of herself and that's what we got to see as the personality of timeline 1 Madoka.

This... this could work. If you look at the time loops as well, Whenever Madoka was a Mahou Shoujo, she was confident, even awesome at points. She even got off her self-centered sacrificial obsession and asked Homura to make she Madoka never became a Mahou Shoujo. Later on, in the last repetition and the current one, she's a cowardly wreck who's nervous and can't even put faith in herself. I'm sure it's what Urobuchi was aiming for, but she becomes the original Homura.
Then again, it could just be finally getting the power to protect people gave her the courage she needed to put faith in herself...
But it also makes you think. Her wish in the previous iteration of time could have changed, couldn't it? If you ask me, Homura looked like she was losing pretty badly even as Madoka was making her wish. And considering Mundane Madoka is obsessed with sacrificing herself for others, I wouldn't put it past her to wish for something like "I want Homura to survive this" or something similar.

[ruurguy]

Not sure if this has been posted, but anyone else notice in episode 10 when they show the opening at the end of the show, instead of just Mami, Madoka, and Sayaka it also includes Homura and Kyouko in the final shot? I went and re-checked episode 9 to make sure I didn't gloss over it happening earlier. This is definitely the first ep this happened.

[taofd]

It seems to me that the current iteration of Madokas are much more powerful than her first iteration. Previously they struggled to defeat walpurgis, but the last iteration took it out in one shot.

I think the important question we should be asking is: What determines the strength of a mahou shoujou? There have been strong hints as to the nature of the individual and the wish asked.

Also there has been another major hint that QB draws the wish making power directly from the mahou shoujou.

With Madoka's wish, if she is fully aware of QB's system, it may be possible for her to completely destroy the system.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by ruurguy

Not sure if this has been posted, but anyone else notice in episode 10 when they show the opening at the end of the show, instead of just Mami, Madoka, and Sayaka it also includes Homura and Kyouko in the final shot? I went and re-checked episode 9 to make sure I didn't gloss over it happening earlier. This is definitely the first ep this happened.

From looking around, people are taking this as Urobuchi is gunning towards a happy end with all the Mahou Shoujo together.
Probably won't happen, but people can hope, can't they?

Originally Posted by taofd

It seems to me that the current iteration of Madokas are much more powerful than her first iteration. Previously they struggled to defeat walpurgis, but the last iteration took it out in one shot.

I think the important question we should be asking is: What determines the strength of a mahou shoujou? There have been strong hints as to the nature of the individual and the wish asked.

Also there has been another major hint that QB draws the wish making power directly from the mahou shoujou.

With Madoka's wish, if she is fully aware of QB's system, it may be possible for her to completely destroy the system.

It's the unstable emotions that make a Mahou Shoujo so powerful. Current iteration Madoka is basically a melting pot of emotion, from struggling with her own worthlessness and cowardice, to dealing with the deaths of a kind sempai and her best friend. The amount of energy in her must be something like an H-bomb now.
As opposed to earlier iterations, where she didn't contract in the middle of such disastrous times. Whenever Kyubei mentions she's got immense power, it's when she contracts after she sees Hell and then some. In the first three iterations, she seems to contract in a stable emotional phase, meaning she'd have the power of an average Mahou Shoujo.

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

Probably won't happen, but people can hope, can't they?

They don't call me "the eternal optimist" for nothing. Considering what I more or less blatantly compared this to earlier, that had a happy ending, even if it meant a few sacrifices. If it means that kind of happiness, I'll keep wishing for it. A world where Madoka and company become a team of monster busting heroines against a threat that's not witches is more or less impossible, but I'll still hope for the best possible ending. No matter how stupid I make myself look in the process. I've got plenty of dignity left to sacrifice.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Midonin

They don't call me "the eternal optimist" for nothing. Considering what I more or less blatantly compared this to earlier, that had a happy ending, even if it meant a few sacrifices. If it means that kind of happiness, I'll keep wishing for it. A world where Madoka and company become a team of monster busting heroines against a threat that's not witches is more or less impossible, but I'll still hope for the best possible ending. No matter how stupid I make myself look in the process. I've got plenty of dignity left to sacrifice.

Don't worry about it. This is my first time with an Urobuchi series, so I guess I haven't become accustomed to the lack of anything better than bittersweet that people who have read his previous stuff are used to. So even though everyone keeps stressing the fact that this won't end happily, I still wish it will. I like cute girls better when they're smiling, after all.

[taofd]

Originally Posted by Raiza Sunozaki

It's the unstable emotions that make a Mahou Shoujo so powerful. Current iteration Madoka is basically a melting pot of emotion, from struggling with her own worthlessness and cowardice, to dealing with the deaths of a kind sempai and her best friend. The amount of energy in her must be something like an H-bomb now.
As opposed to earlier iterations, where she didn't contract in the middle of such disastrous times. Whenever Kyubei mentions she's got immense power, it's when she contracts after she sees Hell and then some. In the first three iterations, she seems to contract in a stable emotional phase, meaning she'd have the power of an average Mahou Shoujo.

Actually, we don't know what exactly that makes each Mahou Shoujo so powerful. QB has said that in GENERAL human emotions serve the basis of magical power, but it doesn't explain why Madoka even in previous incarnations was so much more powerful than the rest of them. Madoka's had a good life with a supportive family etc, and while I think turbulent emotions are part of the equation, I think that's only correlational evidence.

Also keep in mind that QB was already after Madoka even before Madoka learned of magical girls or had any traumatic experience to begin with.

Originally Posted by Midonin

They don't call me "the eternal optimist" for nothing. Considering what I more or less blatantly compared this to earlier, that had a happy ending, even if it meant a few sacrifices. If it means that kind of happiness, I'll keep wishing for it. A world where Madoka and company become a team of monster busting heroines against a threat that's not witches is more or less impossible, but I'll still hope for the best possible ending. No matter how stupid I make myself look in the process. I've got plenty of dignity left to sacrifice.

What comes to mind is a bunch of soggy, water-soaked mice out at sea, desperately huddling together to conserve warmth on a deteriorating piece of cardboard- hoping that their salvation is close at hand.

Don't worry, I'm one of those mice as well.

[Sekirei07]

I am kinda reminded of Umineko from the whole time restart scenario.

That or Homura is just playing a Galga see keeps getting a bad end on and just hits the reset button lol.

[squishycloud]

Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife

Come to think of it, the out for Homura is already there. Madoka has been increasingly powerful every loop, probably due to her power stacking. At some point she should be able to take out the W-night witch without expending all her energy.

This might be how it ends. Kyubey says that she was more powerful than he imagined. Maybe because she tapped into the power from her previous timelines