2012-01-20, 12:42 | Link #941 |
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Honestly, the scene where Shinobu repeats Chihaya's name over and over again also struck me as more serious/dramatic/borderline psychotic than comedic. Now, it's possible that the anime will later present that in a comedic light, but for now, it really gave me an impression similar to what hyperborealis took from it.
I will say that if the anime intended viewers to immediately take it as comedic, the overall execution of that bit was pretty badly off, imo. Anyway, I finally got around to watching Chihayafuru Episode 15. That was another really good episode. It flowed very smoothly, and the time seemed to pass so fast while I was watching it. I was impressed by how the narrative didn't give Taichi a kind of "consolation win" to kind of "make up for" Chihaya losing. The route chosen here is a bit bolder, and I like how the anime is willing to show the main protagonists losing some matches (and due to the comparative strength between themselves and their opponents, not just because they cracked under pressure). Shinobu is a very good antagonist and is presented pretty well overall, but yeah, she's kind of crazy. I guess that is a lot of what makes her a fun character, though. 8/10 for Episode 15.
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2012-01-21, 09:08 | Link #942 |
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The question why Shinobu was stressing over Chihaya and not the guy she played with last, even though he took more cards from her is, that Shinobu probably instinctively feels the potential Chihaya has and knows that she will be a hard competition to beat in the future. What might have also annoyed her was the fact that Chihaya had the nerve to play to win..... to actually think sh could beat Shinobu. Obviously Shinobu chan is not used to having a mentionable competition.
The scene where repeats Chihayas name forcefully was not comical at all, it looked more like Shinobu developed a disturbing obsession. |
2012-01-21, 14:44 | Link #943 |
Me, An Intellectual
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I thought it was rather comical, especially the way she went completely 180 turn dere dere when Chihaya complemented her shirt. I interpreted it as the story telling us that Shinobu is just as bizarre as Chihaya and they're like peas in a pod (as well as the fact that she now has Chihaya on her radar).
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2012-01-21, 19:24 | Link #944 | |
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I agree, though, that I thought the point was to make her appear as quirky and socially awkward as Chihaya. But her 180 turn struck me as an act; not necessarily as a two-faced act covering up malice, but perhaps an act to cover up her current confusion. Chihaya is two things to her, so far: (a) she doesn't give up and force Shinobu to play alone - which is good, and (b) she's a potential threat to her position as Queen, which is not. Add to that the manners of a quirky outsider, and you might just get that turn. I'm completely unsure whether she has a sadistic streak, or whether she's just turned so inwards that she honestly doesn't know how she comes across. At that point, I can see both paths. At any point, I think we're seeing what Chihaya could have become if she hadn't had her sister, or Taichi. |
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2012-01-22, 02:37 | Link #945 |
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Sudou understands Wakamiya's smiles as a kind of malice: she pretends a fear of his strength as a karuta player to underline ironically her contempt. You see this interplay after the end of their match, capped with Sudou's resentment.
I'm not sure if Sudou is quite fair in this. Arata can say he would not show mercy to a five year old, but then he is a boy, for whom such aggressiveness is acceptable. Shinobu has to deal with expectations for girls instead, and one can see how her false modesty is a necessary compromise. In any case Shinobu is perfectly capable of wearing a public mask, such as the false smile she puts on when Chihaya approaches her. She is unlike Chihaya in this regard, if you recall all the times Taichi has to remind her that she's in public. Chihaya's comment on Shinobu's Snowmaru T-shirt continues the conversation Shinobu had begun during the match when she remarked on Chihaya's Daddy Bear shirt. Shinobu finds herself disarmed, and flustered by Chihaya's response. She had expected presumably some sort of sparring, the war between them carried on in conversation, and got instead something much more personal, a connection to the self behind her public facade. Chihaya's words connect the two of them together, and bring home to Shinobu just how they are alike, young girls with a penchant for cute things. The anime is not explicit, but my sense is that Shinobu experiences her connection with Chihaya favorably: where during the match she had been illustrated by winter motifs, the animation now frames her with spring flowers, as if to signify a rebirth of her heart. Then, at the close of the episode, where we see Shinobu practicing, she is looking forward to playing Chihaya again, thinking to herself, "until we meet again." Even the cards she takes in practice make this point: one, the 57th, expresses a woman's longing for an absent lover, hidden like the moon behind the clouds; another, the 73rd, expresses the wish there should be no barrier of mist between the poet and distant cherry trees. Both poems suggest fairly clearly Shinobu's longing for Chihaya. ------------ The episode title, "As Though Pearls Have Been Strung Across the Autumn Plains," is taken from the 37th of the Hyakunin Isshu. Here's the University of Virginia translation: In the autumn fields When the heedless wind blows by Over the pure-white dew, How the myriad unstrung gems Are scattered everywhere around. The obvious interpretation is to think of the gems as the various members of the Mizusawa karuta team, scattered in defeat by the stronger winds of their opponents during the tournament. What makes things more interesting is that the third card Chihaya takes from Shinobu happens to be none other than this very poem. Consequently, I think the title is referring not to Mizusawa's defeat, but contrarily to the cards Chihaya has taken, and the insights she has gained into what it means to be a world-class karuta player. These are the gems or pearls the poem refers to. Here I am thinking of her interior monologue after taking the card about moving freely, about becoming faster and freer, about playing freely despite fear--all of which she connects with being "a strong player." It is interesting to compare Taichi's insights in this respect with Chihaya's. Taichi envisages a perfect accord between mind and body, a body strong enough to react with the same speed as the mind. For Taichi the body is the vehicle of the mind, the instrument that realizes his remarkable capacity to identify which cards are in play at a given syllable. Although Chihaya also seeks a stronger body, one that can move faster, her conception is nothing like this. She seems to imagine instead a radical freedom from restraints, a kind of instinctual being, the wildness of a natural force. Like Taichi, she envisages a possibility akin to her individual nature; but their respective characters are nothing alike. ------------------- "This is the day," Taichi thinks, looking from the stairwell at Chihaya after her match, "the day Chihaya's dream became real." Curious, isn't it, that he is standing on the numeral "2'? Probably just coincidence... Then there is that odd scene at the end where Chihaya mentions she doesn't dream of Arata. The camera focuses briefly on the back of Taichi's head, as if to gauge his reaction. Chihaya continues, "I want to meet him, and not in my dreams." Meanwhile the animation follows a butterfly outside, as it moves about and then flutters around a semi-transparent image of Arata. Why the butterfly? What is that all about?
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-22 at 11:17. |
2012-01-22, 04:23 | Link #947 | |
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Considering Chihayafuru isn't a supernatural show, the latter idea is unlikely. However, if using the more traditional symbolism, it could mean that Chihaya no longer treats Arata as something unreachable or simply as an goal for her and has started to see him as someone/something she can truly reach.
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2012-01-22, 09:32 | Link #948 | |
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Chihayafuru has just one or two supernatural elements, but they're there. I'm impressed that Chihaya makes a point of bowing to the kami of Omi Jingu as the team leaves. I mentioned the cards Shinobu takes in practice: in her practice, Chihaya takes the 24th. This poem speaks of the offering of red leaves the speaker brings to a kami. Perhaps this suggests that Chihaya's practice amounts to an offering to the kami? This might even be likely, since we know from the 17th waka, the Chiahayaburu card, that Chihaya associates the red leaves with herself. Chiahaya is serious about honoring the gods, whether of the shrine or of karuta itself. Conversely, the anime must be serious about the reality of the gods, not then only as objects of honor, but also as factors in life. Undertaker, Animesuki won't let me add to your reputation. So let me just say, excellent post.
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-22 at 11:06. |
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2012-01-22, 13:52 | Link #949 |
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Well, I don't know if that consider as supernatural. The scene in the shrine is a traditional pray for good luck. If anything the teacher had to remind the club about the proper way of praying and Chihaya isn't one one to learn about those things. I mean even now, she is slowing absorbing the culture within Karuta.
As such that I personally think that while Chihaya might not consider Chihayafuru card as romance in the beginning, the poem itself is a love poem. Kanade mentioned that in episode 6 and that once you realizes the background of the the poem, the red leave would symbolizes the yearning and thus makes the card seem red. Besides the background story fit well with what Arata and Chihaya's current situation if you look at romantic angle. While Chihaya might not realizes herself, but I actually think that this card is full of symbolism about Chihaya's potential romantic feeling toward Arata. BTW, I love you post, before then I just follow the story and skipped the poetry part. But after reading your post I re-read the manga along with anime just to get a better feel on the poems.
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2012-01-23, 11:02 | Link #950 | |||
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The issue is important, I suppose, as it relates to Taichi and his character development. So we should talk about it. But he's never going to get to first base with Chihaya, just since she's not even in the stadium. She's playing karuta instead. Quote:
------------------------- There are two more places where the cards figure in this episode. One occurs when Chiahaya is dashing to pick up the third card she takes from Shinobu: She looks back, and then a couple other players call out two cards, #20 & #77. That amounts to a shout-out to us to look at the poems, so let's do it. The 77th we are familiar with--it's "Swift waters parted by jagged rocks." We know the romantic idea Kana attaches to this card, of lovers who eventually will come back together. Here i think it amounts to a promise or a foreshadowing that Chihaya and Shinobu will come together again in the future. This promise relates to Taichi's comment about Chihaya's dream becoming real, and to Chihaya's own statement about how she saw Arata at the nationals, and no longer dreams about him. Chihaya's dream has changed, and now centers not on meeting Arata--that dream has been realized--but rather on meeting Shinobu again. The 20th card is quite interesting. Here's the jlit.net translation: It cannot matter Now that all is in despair-- I must see you Though I expose myself to ruin Like the markers in Naniwa Bay. I take the desperation of this love poem to refer to the risk both girls face in playing each other again--in this context Naniwa Bay alludes to karuta, since that's the hallmark phrase of the traditional prefatory poem before karuta matches. Since only one of them can win, the other must have her hopes dashed, and so be exposed to ruin. Yet both are willing to face this risk, due to their passion for karuta. So the poem speaks of the girls' desire to play each other again, even at the cost of the consequences of losing. The romantic aspect of both these poems may speak to a deeper connection between the two girls. I don't mean in a yuri sense, but rather in a shared outlook and understanding of each other. I am always struck how Taichi just does not get Chihaya--I wonder if Shinobu instead will be the person who does? They already share a lot of features, as women, as obsessive karuta players, as lovers of cute things, as beauties in vain, and so on. We saw how Chihaya's comment to Shinobu about Snowmaru brought the cherry leaves around Shinobu into bloom--if Chihaya does brings friendship into Shinobu's life, perhaps Shinobu will do the same for her? The two cards together suggest the romance of the series may instead focus on the growing relationship between the two girls. There's one other place where cards come up, and in this case, literally: I am thinking of the moment when Chihaya is thinking "I still don't understand, / But is that what it means to be a strong karuta player?" Two cards fly up, the 14th and the 98th. Did you know there is a Shinobu card? The 14th is the Shinobu card! Here's a translation from Mostow: Please believe I am not one who thinks to have his feelings stirred, like cloth imprinted with moss ferns from the deep north of Michinoku, by anyone but you. Here's the romanji: Michinoku no Shinobu moji-zuri Tare yue ni Midare some ni shi Ware naranaku ni Mostow explains: "Shinobu mohji-zuri originally referred to cloth that had been imprinted (zuri) with the design of the moss fern (shinobu; Duvallia bullata). Shinobu is a pivot word: it is both the name of a fern and a verb meaning "to love secretly."" In the context of the anime, I think the poem refers to the special feelings Shinobu has for Chihaya, due to Chihaya's unique ability to reach her, both as a competitive karuta player, but also as a person. Just on the basis of this card, I find it hard not to imagine that Shinobu is in love with Chihaya. A love mediated by karuta, of course... The 98th is much less exciting: in it, the poet notes signs of the changing summer season. Ir refers back to a similar poem, the 2nd, which notes in similar language the transition into summer. Just as a guess, I would take the early and the late positions of the two poems to refer to the relative places of the challenger and the champion: in both poems, it is still summer, so the status quo of Shinobu as Queen still continues, but in the 98th, summer is almost gone, and so looks forward, with the changing of the season, to a changing of the guard, and perhaps to Chihaya becoming queen. There's a lot of guesswork in that interpretation, so I don't insist on it. Now that nationals are over, I wonder how the narrative will go forward?
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-23 at 11:14. |
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2012-01-23, 13:27 | Link #951 | ||
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The chick was pissed that Chihaya got 5 card off her which was prob a lot for a newbie Class A. Really, she prob thought that Chihaya was going to back down like the others and not keep fighting.
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2012-01-23, 14:29 | Link #952 | |
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To change this equilibrium, something or someone would have to get in between this trio, having Chihaya playing a revived Arata might do the tricks.
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2012-01-23, 16:13 | Link #953 | ||
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That Shinobu card, given the context of their interactions in this episode, is just amazing... Quote:
The spiritual aspect of polytheism simply means that, for a spiritual Japanese, it is possible (under appropriate circumstances) to understand every aspect of life and reality as a result of an act of the gods. I think that in the end Japanese religious/Shintoistic emotion/expressions of this sort can be boiled down to a simple faith or happiness in the good of the world, channelled through a culturally familiar and appropriate medium. Chihaya prays to the karuta no kami because she wishes to honour the game of karuta. However, I think this exemplifies moreso a general spiritualism rather than an especial connection to the god of karuta; and I don't think Chihaya can necessarily be said to be closer to the god of karuta (moreso than other players, at least), except perhaps in the sense of having the potential to (in the future) become a "god of karuta" herself. |
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2012-01-23, 18:31 | Link #954 | ||
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The other question I have is, what do we understand about Chihaya in contrast to the other members of the team that she thinks to bow to the shrine as they are leaving? What does that tell us about her? Or about the way she thinks about Shinto and kamis and everything? And why does she bow, anyway? Everybody else is fine on just leaving, but she makes this point of bowing. Why? to what purpose? You are saying she is honoring the game of karuta here? And she is expressing a sense of faith or happiness in the good of the world, in the instance of the last few days of playing at the nationals--there's no resentment at losing or anything. OK, I can see that. Well, then, does her bowing mean she is more attuned than the others to issues such as honoring karuta, that she has a greater sensitivity to the good of the world? Anyway, I should stop floundering and let you try to make sense of this...
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2012-01-23, 21:02 | Link #955 | |||
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The answer is "intuition": karuta moves so fast, that you often can't rely on conscious thought. So you train your intuition. You don't necessarily know how you do what you do - much of it is learning by doing. (There are different approaches; more of that later.) Thus, you can't communicate a technique, but you can communicate an attitude. What this means is that to work up an intuition, you dedicate yourself to the game, you worship it, you become it. The payback is personified into a "kami sama". Note that it's possible that for Arata's grandfather, this actually translates into "hearing a voice" (I doubt it, because the speed involved often doesn't allow for the time it takes to actually "speak".) If so, who's to say that these sorts of gods don't exist? But even if Arata's grandfather actually believes in the Karuta God (as an independent being that does such things as whisper cards to dedicated players), the point is still to communicate an attitude. As such, it doesn't really matter, whether a spiritual realm is involved or not. Take for example Chihaya's hearing. She often moves before the first syllable is even spoken. This seemed like an almost mystical quality for a while until... Harada sensei explained that she picks up on the readers quirks and reacts to them. Chihaya is a very intuitive player; I doubt she could have explained it herself. Translate that situation to Arata's grandfather, and you could well get kami talk. Harada sensei is more the observing and analytical type. This is why he seems to communicate so well Taichi, who's style goes also more in this direction. I can't remember Harada sensei ever talking about things like the god of karuta (and if he did, I'd probably suspect good-natured irony). Closer to karuta? I have no idea what that means, really. On that, you'll have to draw your own conclusions. Quote:
As for the group dynamics, that is so Chihaya. "None of us won anything, but wasn't it fun? We'll come again, won't we?" Among the club, she's pretty much the best at dealing with losing. It's a challenge; it's what makes the game. What's the point of wanting to win if it comes easy? Chihaya was closing off the nationals with the same ritual, with which she started it. But now she's seen how many people there are, and she's met people (the Queen) who are really good. It's a way to wind down, to say it's over - but only for now. She tends to take these things in and appropriate them. Maybe she is more attuned to these things. (On a secondary note, this might be a good place to point out that they first met the Queen at the shrine. And she went there alone; no peer pressure.) |
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2012-01-23, 23:57 | Link #956 | |||
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On that level you could perhaps say that those who always keep themselves open to the experience of karuta are closest to the game. This would be in contrast to preoccupations like the need or desire for victory, self-directed pride/prestige, antipathy towards one's opponents, etc. The ones most likely to experience karuta spiritually (on any level) are probably those who play out of sheer love for it. But that is just something natural, I feel, and not something that requires any explicit supernatural elements. Quote:
But that is just a bit of further clarification of my earlier statements. As for why Chihaya at that moment bowed, felt spiritual at that juncture specifically, I think that you could indeed say that it was because she wanted to honour (or more accurately, give thanks to) the game/god of karuta. As you suggest, there would probably have been some fallout/negative feelings still lingering about being defeated so bitterly. Although experiencing/accepting that failure was/will be something important for their future growth, there would still have been something ill-omened, in a sense, about departing with such a sullen atmosphere. I think that, by turning around and bowing, Chihaya was essentially reminding herself and everyone else that, while improvement and growth are valuable, enjoyment and love for the game itself are still the most important thing. By paying respect and giving thanks to the god of karuta, Chihaya was protecting the original spirit of their love for karuta that brought them there in the first place. In the end, I actually do believe that Chihaya is someone who is closest to the heart of karuta. I just don't think that that is by virtue of some connection with an external force or specific spiritual embodiment of karuta. Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-01-24 at 04:18. Reason: grammar... |
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2012-01-24, 04:03 | Link #957 |
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I agree with Sol Falling.
My understanding of Shintoism is that similar to the Chinese's religion (or Korean). It is a really messy system where almost every element or object to even past heroes were consider to have it's own deity. Simply put, one area's youkai could very well be another area's kami and one area's villain is another area's protector. In China this leads to creation of Taoism as a religion when originally it was a dominant school of thought similar to Confucianism, except compare to numerous Taoist thinkers being deified, Confucious was the only one from Confucianism. That leads to more Taoist temples and many non-related temples being associated with it and eventually merged. In any case, the act has become more of a tradition then an actual, consensual believe system that people practices.
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2012-01-24, 15:08 | Link #959 | |
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By the way, if you're someone who normally stops watching at or during the ED, you may want to stick around to the very end this time.
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2012-01-24, 15:51 | Link #960 |
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Funny! "People who haven't memorized Hundred Poets are bugs." Love that line! And I thought Nishida's sister stole the episode: her chibi form was pure lol!!!
Still, an interesting episode. Interesting to see what the writers selected as key moments in the earlier episodes. Plus the teasing on the romance was completely over the top. I hope native-speakers can provide some comment on the various idioms chosen for Taichi, Chihaya, and Arata. The episode title is from the 26th poem of the Hyakunin Isshu. Thus Mostow: O autumn leaves on the peak of Ogura Hill, if you have a heart, I would that you would wait for one more royal progress. Apparently the "royal progress" refers to seasonal expeditions made by the emperor on the Oi river. This episode is similarly an excursion out of the narrative, so the title may amount to a request to the reader to show patience while the main story is interrupted. Everyone loves Kana! even Chihaya! "There's only one possible answer"--so true!
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Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-24 at 16:47. |
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