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Witch of Uncertainty · 2011-12-22, 13:07

While not given the culprit, I do believe that Kyrie/Rudolf and/or Battler are the culprits, based on nothing but ange's reaction to when she read the diary, and Battler's attempt to conceal the truth.

On a completely different note, Bernkastel greatly disappointed me this episode. I felt it was pushing it a bit too far when she "trolled" us in this game. It's not like I believed her for a second to be nice (Like I did before ep 5, and 7), and her trolling was not as exceptional either. It was just the average bad guy.
Lambdadelta, however, took the stage as the most likable of the two this episode.

Beatrice also surprised me with her suicide scene, which was really beautiful in my opinion.

Overall, I was very pleased with this ending, and, while many of you might spit in my general direction for saying this, I ended up not caring for the truth. I won't mind if he tells us, but I was satisfied with the closed cat box. My only complaint is that, as I said, Bernkastel lots her spark this episode.

Smeckledorf · 2011-12-22, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty

Overall, I was very pleased with this ending, and, while many of you might spit in my general direction for saying this, I ended up not caring for the truth. I won't mind if he tells us, but I was satisfied with the closed cat box. My only complaint is that, as I said, Bernkastel lots her spark this episode.

I have nothing against you for liking the episode. I don't know why anyone would. My beef is with R07. An answer is owed to mystery.

I also believe Kyrie/Rudolph to be murderers, but there are some still unanswered aspects to the whole theory. Would Battler just let them die? Also, I think there are five people Ange would have accepted as culprits, four of them are servants and one is Eva. Anyone else would probably cause vehement denial like we saw. So, that little piece of evidence puts us down to 12. If you believe most of the other red truths, we can at least get that number down to 8-10.

CrimsonMoonMist · 2011-12-22, 17:51

In fear of annoyingly repeating myself too much
on why I think R07 did provide the answers to the mystery,
I'll just put a quick summary in my sig from now on.

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-22, 18:01

The thing is, we were asked to find the truth of what was going on, and we were only told after the fact that, oh, this is just a fictional story within the true tragedy.

WELL WHO DID KILL THEM? Don't make us care so much and then not answer the question.

James Lame · 2011-12-22, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

WELL WHO DID KILL THEM? Don't make us care so much and then not answer the question.

Duh, it was Gohda.

SonozakiUshiromiya · 2011-12-22, 19:19

While we're on the topic of opening the cat box, here's what R07 wrote on the subject(Granted, he renegged on this 3 Eps later, but it there, so I think it's worth discussing.). It's pretty much Renall's and AT's point on why the truth should be revealed.

Spoiler for Ep 5:

DaBackpack · 2011-12-22, 19:54

When has Umineko ever been a standard mystery?

Why would he make so many points about the nature of the 'cat box' and then tell us the solution directly? I think his conclusion fits in with more of the themes of the entire series.

We were given a pretty specific framework for 'the answer' in EP7. The rest is for you to fill in with however you want to handle it.

I am generally pleased with EP8. I liked it a lot.

For me, at least, most of Umineko was trying to solve 'the universe' of the series, and the rules that the game board seem to follow. The EXACT solution to R-Prime almost seems arbitrary.

Above anything, I am pissed about his pamphlet that gives us the answer. It pretty much defeats the purpose of EP8 entirely.

ErenselTheJester · 2011-12-22, 20:09

I would like to point out that not many of us even take EP7 as having a value regarding the solution to Umineko.

UsagiTenpura · 2011-12-22, 20:26

I admit that, personally, in the light of author theory especially, I find it hard to consider "Yasu's story" which is presented to us as a book is... anything else then a story same as the message bottles.

It'd be like "I showed you it was just a story by using the message bottle as hint, now I use an even more in your face hint but it doesn't mean the same thing this time" from Ryuukishi's part.

ErenselTheJester · 2011-12-22, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

I admit that, personally, in the light of author theory especially, I find it hard to consider "Yasu's story" which is presented to us as a book is... anything else then a story same as the message bottles.

It'd be like "I showed you it was just a story by using the message bottle as hint, now I use an even more in your face hint but it doesn't mean the same thing this time" from Ryuukishi's part.

And let's not forget that Yasu's story was written by a different author than the other stories

zibbazabba905 · 2011-12-22, 20:57

Did Erika's "afterimage" type fighting seem extra Mary-sueish? I wonder if that was intentional as the "parody-sue" or if she really was turned into a Mary-sue.

I figure asking here since there's no character page for some of the newer characters.

-edit: err... there's no thread for the new characters

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-22, 21:32

Er...what do you mean by that? They have TIPS profiles.

But yea, Erika's being a Mary Sue as always, it's her gimmick.

zibbazabba905 · 2011-12-22, 21:44

Oh, also, Am I the only one who thinks it a bit odd of Ange forcing Battler back when he didn't want to come back?

ErenselTheJester · 2011-12-22, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

But yea, Erika's being a Mary Sue as always, it's her gimmick.

Gimmick? You call all that a gimmick? That's her very being!

AuraTwilight · 2011-12-23, 00:07

Well, not really. She's MORE than just being a deconstruction of a Mary Sue. She's also a Strawman Argument, and a Villain, and a Moe Fanservice-y character, etcetera.

ErenselTheJester · 2011-12-23, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Well, not really. She's MORE than just being a deconstruction of a Mary Sue. She's also a Strawman Argument, and a Villain, and a Moe Fanservice-y character, etcetera.

Alright fine, she's an argumentative, villainous, fanservice-y, scarecrow Mary Sue.

Revelation · 2011-12-23, 01:16

I just have a tiny question that I don't seem to understand, how was Hachijou able to use the red truth that the Book of One Truth really was the truth in the real world (where red doesn't exist)?

LyricalAura · 2011-12-23, 01:40

Easy answer: she wasn't in the real world.

ErenselTheJester · 2011-12-23, 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Dream

I just have a tiny question that I don't seem to understand, how was Hachijou able to use the red truth that the Book of One Truth really was the truth in the real world (where red doesn't exist)?

You don't know? She was puking up blood and the splatters just happened to form words.

Revelation · 2011-12-23, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Easy answer: she wasn't in the real world.

So the entire media-conference debacle was fiction as well? Or is it that she's not in our world? If it's the latter, I assume I can see it as some sort of message from Ryukishi that what's written in the diary is the truth no questions asked.

2011-12-22, 18:01	Link #1324
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	The thing is, we were asked to find the truth of what was going on, and we were only told after the fact that, oh, this is just a fictional story within the true tragedy. WELL WHO DID KILL THEM? Don't make us care so much and then not answer the question. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-22, 19:19	Link #1326
SonozakiUshiromiya Reading your tale. :) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Just out of sight, eating popcorn. >:D	While we're on the topic of opening the cat box, here's what R07 wrote on the subject(Granted, he renegged on this 3 Eps later, but it there, so I think it's worth discussing.). It's pretty much Renall's and AT's point on why the truth should be revealed. Spoiler for Ep 5: __________________

2011-12-22, 20:57	Link #1331
zibbazabba905 twuth it EASY. Join Date: Jun 2010	Did Erika's "afterimage" type fighting seem extra Mary-sueish? I wonder if that was intentional as the "parody-sue" or if she really was turned into a Mary-sue. I figure asking here since there's no character page for some of the newer characters. -edit: err... there's no thread for the new characters Last edited by zibbazabba905; 2011-12-22 at 21:37.

2011-12-22, 21:32	Link #1332
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Er...what do you mean by that? They have TIPS profiles. But yea, Erika's being a Mary Sue as always, it's her gimmick. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-23, 00:07	Link #1335
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Well, not really. She's MORE than just being a deconstruction of a Mary Sue. She's also a Strawman Argument, and a Villain, and a Moe Fanservice-y character, etcetera. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-12-22, 13:07	Link #1321
Witch of Uncertainty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	While not given the culprit, I do believe that Kyrie/Rudolf and/or Battler are the culprits, based on nothing but ange's reaction to when she read the diary, and Battler's attempt to conceal the truth. On a completely different note, Bernkastel greatly disappointed me this episode. I felt it was pushing it a bit too far when she "trolled" us in this game. It's not like I believed her for a second to be nice (Like I did before ep 5, and 7), and her trolling was not as exceptional either. It was just the average bad guy. Lambdadelta, however, took the stage as the most likable of the two this episode. Beatrice also surprised me with her suicide scene, which was really beautiful in my opinion. Overall, I was very pleased with this ending, and, while many of you might spit in my general direction for saying this, I ended up not caring for the truth. I won't mind if he tells us, but I was satisfied with the closed cat box. My only complaint is that, as I said, Bernkastel lots her spark this episode.

2011-12-22, 17:51	Link #1323
CrimsonMoonMist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Age: 30	In fear of annoyingly repeating myself too much on why I think R07 did provide the answers to the mystery, I'll just put a quick summary in my sig from now on.

2011-12-22, 19:54	Link #1327
DaBackpack Blick Winkel Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Gobbled up by Promathia	When has Umineko ever been a standard mystery? Why would he make so many points about the nature of the 'cat box' and then tell us the solution directly? I think his conclusion fits in with more of the themes of the entire series. We were given a pretty specific framework for 'the answer' in EP7. The rest is for you to fill in with however you want to handle it. I am generally pleased with EP8. I liked it a lot. For me, at least, most of Umineko was trying to solve 'the universe' of the series, and the rules that the game board seem to follow. The EXACT solution to R-Prime almost seems arbitrary. Above anything, I am pissed about his pamphlet that gives us the answer. It pretty much defeats the purpose of EP8 entirely.

2011-12-22, 20:09	Link #1328
ErenselTheJester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.	I would like to point out that not many of us even take EP7 as having a value regarding the solution to Umineko.

2011-12-22, 20:26	Link #1329
UsagiTenpura Artist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Yesterday!	I admit that, personally, in the light of author theory especially, I find it hard to consider "Yasu's story" which is presented to us as a book is... anything else then a story same as the message bottles. It'd be like "I showed you it was just a story by using the message bottle as hint, now I use an even more in your face hint but it doesn't mean the same thing this time" from Ryuukishi's part.

2011-12-22, 21:44	Link #1333
zibbazabba905 twuth it EASY. Join Date: Jun 2010	Oh, also, Am I the only one who thinks it a bit odd of Ange forcing Battler back when he didn't want to come back?

2011-12-23, 01:16	Link #1337
Revelation lorem ipsum dolor sit ame Artist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: CA, USA Age: 29	I just have a tiny question that I don't seem to understand, how was Hachijou able to use the red truth that the Book of One Truth really was the truth in the real world (where red doesn't exist)? __________________

2011-12-23, 01:40	Link #1338
LyricalAura Dea ex Kakera Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sea of Fragments	Easy answer: she wasn't in the real world. __________________ "Something has fallen on us that falls very seldom on men; perhaps the worst thing that can fall on them. We have found the truth; and the truth makes no sense."