School Days - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [END]

[XxKawaiiAngelxX]

Originally Posted by Silent Xenocide

This episode was just too unbearable. While Makoto was a jerk and stuff, I mean, cutting of his head and then killing Sekai? Thats just too much for me. Its sort of funny how if you were to compare the first episode and the last episode if it werent for the same characters you wouldn't think it's even the same anime.

I was thinking the same thing. It went from all the jolly little episodes with eating lunch with each other on the roof then Katsura and Makoto dating. Then it became Makoto and Sekai having an affair but still there was the nice little swimming episode. Then all the other girls in the school were sleeping with him. Then a murder spree!? If I hadn't know that a bloody ending was coming then I would probably had a heart attack!

[Neux]

Originally Posted by Rembr

Yes. There is no way what he said could be translated as "Thank goodness." He was uttering Sekai's name.

Maybe during the short struggle, he realized Seikai was not pregnant or that she no longer carried his child...and so he thought "thank goodness, she did go to the hospital...she won't have to have the burden of raising that child".

That would go coincide with Kotohana's result at the end...

[Jimmy C]

I've been thinking about something, what are the conventions regarding arresting someone (on another boat) in international waters?
Kotonoha made a clean getaway. If she knew what she was doing, she could have lost herself in the Pacific to die with Makoto before the police realised they needed to find her.
Good or bad, this is one ending no one will forget for a long time.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Neux

Maybe during the short struggle, he realized Seikai was not pregnant or that she no longer carried his child...and so he thought "thank goodness, she did go to the hospital...she won't have to have the burden of raising that child".

That would go coincide with Kotohana's result at the end...

that's completely impossible.
how can anyone conclude "this person isn't pregnant" just by assaulting you?
Sekai was "normal", until Makoto sent the message, then she asked to talk thereafter.
The only thing he can actually realize is the pain he deal to sekai with the "subtle" way for abortion.

now, again, there is NO way Makoto would say "thank goodness", which should be "yokata". he utters something like "soka-i" or "sekai".
whatever is the purpose of his dying action, there is no way it would be "thank goodness"

[Rembr]

Originally Posted by Neux

Maybe during the short struggle, he realized Seikai was not pregnant or that she no longer carried his child...and so he thought "thank goodness, she did go to the hospital...she won't have to have the burden of raising that child".

That would go coincide with Kotohana's result at the end...

Huh?

Whatever theory you might have, it still doesn't change the fact that there is no way the words he uttered could be translated as "Thank goodness."

I'm not giving you an opinion, I'm giving you a translation.

[Neux]

Originally Posted by Rembr

Huh?

Whatever theory you might have, it still doesn't change the fact that there is no way the words he uttered could be translated as "Thank goodness."

I'm not giving you an opinion, I'm giving you a translation.

I didn't know you were giving a translation. My mistake then.

I wasn't saying that he actually said "thank goodness". I was just saying that the only case where he could say something like "thank goodness" was in a case like that.

Still, I know the theory I had is far-fetched...but that's the only case I could think of where he could utter something like that.

[XxKawaiiAngelxX]

If you go to the site of the translators it clearly says that they made a mistake and he doesn't say thank goodness he say Sekai

Just to clear things up

[nikorai]

Wow, i didnt expect to find so many posts here. I'll be hard for me to read them all.
Actually its pretty bad nobody was taking bets. My guess was correct. Or maybe if anyone were to take bets there would have been only winners?
One thing I wanted to mention though is that I was sure about Makoto but didnt expect the authors to extend it as far as Sekai.
Also the ending reminds me of a movie called Crazy in Alabama

If you go to the site of the translators it clearly says that they made a mistake and he doesn't say thank goodness he say Sekai

When I watched the episode I heard quite clearly he said sekai. perhaps the translators mistake was made by accident and in a hurry

[neutralizer]

I just thought of something that may possibly be symbolic. Sekai means "world," right? And Sekai is now dead. So in School Days, the world is dead... Ah whatever, just something random I thought up.

[Vestus]

Overall:
Throughout the whole series I wanted there to be a happy ending for Kotonoha. But for some reason I like this violent ending. Kotonoha got her happy ending (even though it wasn't a sane one, I wish it were a sane one) so Kotonoha fans should be somewhat happy I guess. Makoto dies so everyone who hates Makoto should be happy. As for the Sekai fans, well I really don't know how you guys should feel.

My other thoughts:
I also really like the cellphone text that Sekai sent to Makoto before she killed him (I was really cringing when she was repeatedly stabbing him).

I also like the mimicked play. I thought the flower represented the baby.

Kotonoha cutting of Makoto's head well was very unexpected for me. And Kotonoha was friggin scary throughout this last episode, except when u see her with the little sister.

As for the pregnancy of Sekai. I think she was "faking" it (but saying that she was pregnant isn't wrong either).

[Zeira]

All, I can say is wow.
Fu**ing wow

I dont find it odd that kotonoho killed Sekai. Befoe seeing episode 12, almost everyone expected and was waiting for Koto to complete mentally break down. Most people thought it was going to be her doing the killing.

Honestly, through out the whole episode, I got the feeling that Koto still wasn't right in the head. Even though they made her seem like that at the end of episode 11.

It makes sense to me that when she finally gets what she want, and yet again Sekai gets in her way.. that Koto kills her. Wow, the way things happened was a shocker for me, but for the fact that they did happen. (Sekai killing Makoto, Koto killing Sekai.) I am not surprised, at all.

IF sekai had killed Makoto, and Kotonoha didn't have some kind of violent.. or outward crazy reaction.. then I would have been disappointed.. it wouldn't have made no sense for Koto to go on all normal and ok.

______

As for the flower..I though it represented Kotonoha.

As in Sekai Gave Makoto the flower. (introduced Makoto to Koto)
Sekai used the flower to get close to him. (Sekai used the excuse of helping their relationship just to get closer to Makoto herself)

[Pakxenon]

Thinking over about it after that intense discussion starting on page 19 or so, I think the writers really did mean to deviate from your standard harem/romance anime. Just look at the state of current anime: happy endings everywhere in a post-war modern world where people will only be entertained if any or all of the characters make it out alright (aka standard Hollywood shit). Even in the worst endings some things are still righted to make us feel good. In Shakespeare plays, MacBeth dies but Mac(XXX) won and became king; Romeo and Juliet dies hence their families made up; I haven't seen Hamlet yet (sorry!) - these are examples where there is some sort of bad endings for the main characters yet someone gets something out of it. This clearly isn't the case for School Days; it's one of the rarer stories where a BAD END actually happens and isn't a crowd-pleaser like 99.9% of entertainment media are. None of the main characters live through, and no one sheds a tear for their story nor does anybody win (stated with the omitting of an epilogue for the rest of the characters).

In the past, there must be a lot of stories where there really is a BAD END like how School Days plays out (and some can possibly be classified as "literature"). It doesn't matter whether they're trashy love-triangle romances or attacks on the current state of the human condition, it still stands that they were still acceptable to outright either make us angry or satisfy the bloodthirsty.

Worst ending ever? That's the post-war era talking where nobody wants tragedies anymore. (Though there are people proclaiming BEST END who are bloodthirsty, too.) Surely there is room in the world for a BAD END, right?




Add-on from a comment I wrote on a some blog:

>greek tragedy
It’s even worse than that. Worse than Shakespeare’s tragedies, too. It’s on the level where NOBODY GETS ANYTHING GOOD OUT OF IT except for the viewers. School Days indeed sheds some light on the human condition - look at us in this post-war era! All we want out of Hollywood and TV are good endings or some sort of redemption and having someone gains something good from a bad situation. Then when a BAD END happens, everybody ridicules it for being so different. School Days sets up a bad end, but nobody actually wants a BAD END, I myself included (I didn’t actually want Sekai nor Kotonoha to die; hoping to have all three of them die is only part of the hype factor). Even “shock value” doesn’t excuse that the writers intentionally created a BAD END - it’s only an add-on to what they wanted it to be.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Karon

I saw the last episode about 1min ago and I have seen 376 series (to be exact) and Ive never been so disappointed with ANY of the others, Im angry in fact and being frank with the whole thing Im shocked to see that high ratio on 10 exellent end, whats wrong with you guys, Im scared.

A guy who voted 6 for the last episode of Gurren Lagann before it even airs, complaining on a diffrent thread about what others have voted after actually watching the episode.

Wow.

I'm sorry sir, that's pretty low.

The votes for the last episode of School Days in this thread, whether you agree with them or not, are all valid. Unlike yours.
(And this is coming from a guy who thought the final episode of SD was nothing but shock value, and didn't like it )

[Perishthethought]

Why did Kotonoha get up from the sofa before Sekai rang the doorbell?

[DL22003]

damn violent ending but....I liked it, I don't think anyone deserved to die but anyways the ink blood was to bizzare....

BTW, the tomaru you mentioned is from one of overflow games? if it is...which one? ^^U

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Pakxenon

Thinking over about it after that intense discussion starting on page 19 or so, I think the writers really did mean to deviate from your standard harem/romance anime. Just look at the state of current anime: happy endings everywhere in a post-war modern world where people will only be entertained if any or all of the characters make it out alright (aka standard Hollywood shit). Even in the worst endings some things are still righted to make us feel good. In Shakespeare plays, MacBeth dies but Mac(XXX) won and became king; Romeo and Juliet dies hence their families made up; I haven't seen Hamlet yet (sorry!) - these are examples where there is some sort of bad endings for the main characters yet someone gets something out of it. This clearly isn't the case for School Days; it's one of the rarer stories where a BAD END actually happens and isn't a crowd-pleaser like 99.9% of entertainment media are. None of the main characters live through, and no one sheds a tear for their story nor does anybody win (stated with the omitting of an epilogue for the rest of the characters).

In the past, there must be a lot of stories where there really is a BAD END like how School Days plays out (and some can possibly be classified as "literature"). It doesn't matter whether they're trashy love-triangle romances or attacks on the current state of the human condition, it still stands that they were still acceptable to outright either make us angry or satisfy the bloodthirsty.

Worst ending ever? That's the post-war era talking where nobody wants tragedies anymore. (Though there are people proclaiming BEST END who are bloodthirsty, too.) Surely there is room in the world for a BAD END, right?

The confusing thing here is that, if the Internet is any indication, the ending absolutely was a crowd pleaser. I've seen way, way more positive comments about it than negative; look at the votes in this very thread. I'm not sure what that says about our present "post-war era" culture (not sure why you bring that up so much - we're many, many generations "post-war" now), but at least it doesn't seem to indicate that people are only entertained by happy endings. Perhaps the backlash has begun?

The primary reason why most stories offer a "silver lining" to accompany death is because of the general consensus that human life has value. So, the "cost" of death has to be balanced out. A villian "earns" their death by their actions, but a hero doesn't deserve death, thus it has to have a greater meaning or purpose. Of course, since no character is necessarily either "black" or "white", there's often some combination of the two. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't have any emotional attachment to the characters at all -- they wouldn't seem human, and you wouldn't feel any sympathy or empathy for their pleights or deaths. And perhaps, to some extent, that's true of this show in particular.

School Days is what it is: a mockery of the genre, a shining beacon of depravity, a lesson that excessive stupidity begets itself, and a classic example of giving people what they really want. But I don't think they did it with some higher purpose, or with the intention of sending a message about society in this "post-war era". After all, that would be providing a meaning to the tragedy -- the very "silver lining" they were so careful not to provide. Makoto was a inconsiderate, sex-crazed teenager and (whether he really did or not) deserved to die. And so he did, and in a most spectacular way. The End.

[Vestus]

Originally Posted by Pakxenon

Thinking over about it after that intense discussion starting on page 19 or so, I think the writers really did mean to deviate from your standard harem/romance anime. Just look at the state of current anime: happy endings everywhere in a post-war modern world where people will only be entertained if any or all of the characters make it out alright (aka standard Hollywood shit). Even in the worst endings some things are still righted to make us feel good. In Shakespeare plays, MacBeth dies but Mac(XXX) won and became king; Romeo and Juliet dies hence their families made up; I haven't seen Hamlet yet (sorry!) - these are examples where there is some sort of bad endings for the main characters yet someone gets something out of it. This clearly isn't the case for School Days; it's one of the rarer stories where a BAD END actually happens and isn't a crowd-pleaser like 99.9% of entertainment media are. None of the main characters live through, and no one sheds a tear for their story nor does anybody win (stated with the omitting of an epilogue for the rest of the characters).

In the past, there must be a lot of stories where there really is a BAD END like how School Days plays out (and some can possibly be classified as "literature"). It doesn't matter whether they're trashy love-triangle romances or attacks on the current state of the human condition, it still stands that they were still acceptable to outright either make us angry or satisfy the bloodthirsty.

Worst ending ever? That's the post-war era talking where nobody wants tragedies anymore. (Though there are people proclaiming BEST END who are bloodthirsty, too.) Surely there is room in the world for a BAD END, right?

I like well written endings. Regardless if it's good or bad. I did like this ending, but I also think it was unreal (hence not well written).

I mean, I've heard of emotional girls but this is pushing it for me.

I understand why Kotonoha would kill Sekai (I haven't experienced it myself, but from what I've seen in others, people usually want to kill the person who killed the one close to them). But taking Makoto's head and treasuring it was unreal. I mean wouldn't that cause you more pain? You see the severed head of the one you love, wouldn't you get depressed. Then again, Kotonoha wasn't really in the right state of mind.

I've lost a girl to another guy, but I've never wanted to kill the girl that I've lost (only thing that I did was be depressed for about 1- 2 months). So, for me, seeing Sekai kill Makoto over some heartbreak seems too unreal for me, even is she was pregenant. I also haven't even heard of a woman killing a guy that left her pregenant for some other woman.

Don't get me wrong, I got 80% of the ending I wanted, Kotonoha is happy (only thing is it isn't a sane one), Sekai and Makoto are dead, everyone else gets some intelligence.

But that might be just me.

[hipeach]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

The confusing thing here is that, if the Internet is any indication, the ending absolutely was a crowd pleaser. I've seen way, way more positive comments about it than negative; look at the votes in this very thread. I'm not sure what that says about our present "post-war era" culture (not sure why you bring that up so much - we're many, many generations "post-war" now), but at least it doesn't seem to indicate that people are only entertained by happy endings. Perhaps the backlash has begun?

The primary reason why most stories offer a "silver lining" to accompany death is because of the general consensus that human life has value. So, the "cost" of death has to be balanced out. A villian "earns" their death by their actions, but a hero doesn't deserve death, thus it has to have a greater meaning or purpose. Of course, since no character is necessarily either "black" or "white", there's often some combination of the two. If this weren't the case, you wouldn't have any emotional attachment to the characters at all -- they wouldn't seem human, and you wouldn't feel any sympathy or empathy for their pleights or deaths. And perhaps, to some extent, that's true of this show in particular.

School Days is what it is: a mockery of the genre, a shining beacon of depravity, a lesson that excessive stupidity begets itself, and a classic example of giving people what they really want. But I don't think they did it with some higher purpose, or with the intention of sending a message about society in this "post-war era". After all, that would be providing a meaning to the tragedy -- the very "silver lining" they were so careful not to provide. Makoto was a inconsiderate, sex-crazed teenager and (whether he really did or not) deserved to die. And so he did, and in a most spectacular way. The End.

well, the only message I can gather from this series is that :

jerks in harems should die
bitches in harems should die
and harem anime sucks if jerks and bitches don't die

Originally Posted by Vestus

I like well written endings. Regardless if it's good or bad. I did like this ending, but I also think it was unreal (hence not well written).

I mean, I've heard of emotional girls but this is pushing it for me.

well, killing and mutilating people is not unreal, but harem shows (which School Days is one of them) are generally unreal.

I understand why Kotonoha would kill Sekai (I haven't experienced it myself, but from what I've seen in others, people usually want to kill the person who killed the one close to them). But taking Makoto's head and treasuring it was unreal. I mean wouldn't that cause you more pain? You see the severed head of the one you love, wouldn't you get depressed. Then again, Kotonoha wasn't really in the right state of mind.

It's quite plausible, I've seen couples when one died, the other hold onto his/her ashes and believe he/she is still alive and talk to them. And they are not nearly as far gone as Kotonoha.

I've lost a girl to another guy, but I've never wanted to kill the girl that I've lost (only thing that I did was be depressed for about 1- 2 months). So, for me, seeing Sekai kill Makoto over some heartbreak seems too unreal for me, even is she was pregenant. I also haven't even heard of a woman killing a guy that left her pregenant for some other woman.

well, I've seen quite some news about guys killing girls who ditched them for others. There was even a case last year where a girl getting ditched by a guy castrated him. Actually that could be another nice ending for School Days if they decide not to kill off Makoto

[ApostleOfGod]

Originally Posted by Vestus

I like well written endings. Regardless if it's good or bad. I did like this ending, but I also think it was unreal (hence not well written).

I mean, I've heard of emotional girls but this is pushing it for me.

I understand why Kotonoha would kill Sekai (I haven't experienced it myself, but from what I've seen in others, people usually want to kill the person who killed the one close to them). But taking Makoto's head and treasuring it was unreal. I mean wouldn't that cause you more pain? You see the severed head of the one you love, wouldn't you get depressed. Then again, Kotonoha wasn't really in the right state of mind.

I've lost a girl to another guy, but I've never wanted to kill the girl that I've lost (only thing that I did was be depressed for about 1- 2 months). So, for me, seeing Sekai kill Makoto over some heartbreak seems too unreal for me, even is she was pregenant. I also haven't even heard of a woman killing a guy that left her pregenant for some other woman.

Don't get me wrong, I got 80% of the ending I wanted, Kotonoha is happy (only thing is it isn't a sane one), Sekai and Makoto are dead, everyone else gets some intelligence.

But that might be just me.

It's unreal indeed; however, you have to take into consideration the fact that Kotonoha is heavily melancholic and nostalgic at the same time. No matter how much crap Makoto gave her, she still accepted it and continuously denied reality until she was rejected. Once she broke down and depression began to kick in, (as the anime showed her eyes dimmed and something I don't know went missing) she simply continued as though nothing had happened. The impact upon her love and trust in Makoto was inevitable. Once she got back with Makoto, it should have been pretty obvious by that point, that she wouldn't be able to live normal without him.

By the way, I can't really find out exactly what kind of symptom would best describe Kotonoha's situation. Makoto just began to crave for the pleasures, which is just the entity of a man getting the better of himself. Kotonoha and Sekai both seem to have gone through things alike, like PTSD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTSD) but I can't really say for sure, because the side effects which they displayed were .... Yeah... Anyways... Anyone care to take a shot and guess which symptoms would best describe..

1. Kotonoha's situation
2. Sekai's situation

[Lost-Wisdom]

Out of episodes 1-11. Those were episodes that seem pretty real to me. As that stuff really happens in the real life, well in Japan probably, a lot of cases like that happens.

Episode 12 is the most messed up, not to mention bloody ending to end the series. I mean, in the end to give Katsura hugging Makotos head, I mean, what does that solve?

They should of added more episodes, I swear you not. 24 would be a nice number. No wait, 13 is better.

Hope they create a OAV.