Code Geass Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[JediNight]

Comments on various things in the thread so far:

Review Eps/Season Delay:
I don't think we can say for sure why they had review episodes that caused 24/25 to be delayed. I can see reasons for each to be true, and I could see how BOTH are true -- the impressive quality on Code Geass caused them to start slipping behind schedule, then with fan demands for review episodes they decided to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

You have to remember that the vast majority of anime watchers don't download the episodes, especially in Japan. And so with the complexity of the plot in Code Geass, I can definitely see why they could want a review episode. Also, since Sunrise is investing a HUGE budget into Code Geass (usually they only do that for Gundam), they needed to make sure to maximize viewers and really make the show succeed.

I believe it's better in the long run for them to put in a review episode and keep the animation in-house, than to outsource the animation and lower the quality of the show "forever" even after you have the DVDs. Suck it up and deal with the delay, even though I know we're such an instant gratification society. Everyone complains about the poor animation when they outsource episodes (Naruto comes to mind) ... so be happy that the director for Geass has the integrity to not lower the quality of his work.

Suzaku/VV:
I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that Suzaku has now been given a Geass from VV. It sets up the "Best Friend Opponents" theme even better, and VV approaches Suzaku at his weakest moment to tempt him with the Geass. Remember that Lelouch likened the contract to making a pact with the devil. So VV has now come as a "devil" to tempt Suzaku.

The last scene there with Suzaku talking to Lelouch on the phone was great as well. I thought it was a very well done way for Suzaku to tip off to Lelouch that he now knows he is really Zero. The parting statement .... "We're best friends right? .....Since 7 years ago. I've got to cut off the call now..." ... 10/10

Marianne/Clovis:
THEY ARE NOT ALIVE! It's blatantly obvious that the top-level Geass users are able to speak with "the dead" in some fashion. We don't know what the conditions are for that, but I'm predicting that it's either some type of bloodline thing of people descended in the Geass line (from those freaky Geass clone girls in the OP?) OR as someone else said, anyone thats been affected by the Geass in some way.

I would think the bloodline thing is more likely, but that leaves the question of Suzaku then. Maybe related to his hax-reflexes?

Kaguya:
Obviously she has extremely high marks in the cute department, but I don't know if you would call her moe exactly. I think that term is overrused nowadays. I don't really see why people would "hate" her though -- she doesn't seem overly annoying to me. She just seems like a normal girl around 12 years old with a crush and a happy personality. She's just sorta high on the "namaiki" and "gakki-ppoi" meters IMHO. Which would be understandable being from a priveleged elite background.

[aohige]

Too bad the show airs late-night... when you can't order pizza delivery anymore.

If the show was shown prime-time, I bet the sales of Pizza Hut would have increased.

Originally Posted by JediNight

Comments on various things in the thread so far:

Review Eps/Season Delay:
I don't think we can say for sure why they had review episodes that caused 24/25 to be delayed. I can see reasons for each to be true, and I could see how BOTH are true -- the impressive quality on Code Geass caused them to start slipping behind schedule, then with fan demands for review episodes they decided to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Not a single person, either on BBS or blogs, were happy about the recaps though. It was way too frequent. (recaps are usually thrown in every 12 episodes, inbetween seasons, not every eight episodes, twice in two seasons) I don't see how it would be result of fans.
WHAT fans? Cause I have never seen them anywhere. In all of roaming through Japanese fan community, not once did I see anyone asking for a recap.

Not to be harsh on the staff, because they are doing a great job.
But the real solution is to plan ahead, and schedule a 26 episode run, with 1 episode planned to be a recap from the start.
Instead of cramming in unscheduled recaps. This, unfortunately, is a fault that lies in Taniguchi's hands.
Whether or not he was responsible or not, he's still the director.
I'm sure he'll learn from it, and plan a better scheduling next time.

[Juvyniled]

*off topic* How popular was pizza in Japan prior to this?

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by JediNight

Kaguya:
Obviously she has extremely high marks in the cute department, but I don't know if you would call her moe exactly. I think that term is overrused nowadays. I don't really see why people would "hate" her though -- she doesn't seem overly annoying to me. She just seems like a normal girl around 12 years old with a crush and a happy personality. She's just sorta high on the "namaiki" and "gakki-ppoi" meters IMHO. Which would be understandable being from a priveleged elite background.

Wait, Kaguya is 12?!?!!?!?

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

*off topic* How popular was pizza in Japan prior to this?

There are pizza huts and other pizza delivery places pretty much anywhere in Japan, other than countryside. That should answer your question.

The pizzas are considerably smaller for the price than ones in US.
But that goes for almost any food in Japan.

Originally Posted by JediNight

Kaguya:
Obviously she has extremely high marks in the cute department, but I don't know if you would call her moe exactly. I think that term is overrused nowadays. I don't really see why people would "hate" her though -- she doesn't seem overly annoying to me. She just seems like a normal girl around 12 years old with a crush and a happy personality. She's just sorta high on the "namaiki" and "gakki-ppoi" meters IMHO. Which would be understandable being from a priveleged elite background.

"gakki-ppoi" means childish. I seriously don't think this is the case.
Although she's enthusiastic, her points were clear and true. Zero does indeed need someone besides him, that symbolizes Japan, as she suggested. He himself is a Britannian prince, and by having a symbol of Japan to place as a symbolic head of the rebellion, he could safely reveal his identity when the time is right. Which would be after the Independence is won. Otherwise, like Kirihara mentioned, it would be treated a farce by the Britannian imperials.

I have made this point last week, (ask Juvyniled, he remembers ) that her position is important if Zero is to ever show his identity.
And if I may brag "I told you so! ", my point was proven in this episode, by the following line Kaguya says.
"If you win this battle, you will eventually need a wife. If you're in a position that you can't show your face, you'll need someone to compensate for it, no?"

That girl is heck of a lot smarter than she let's on.

[JediNight]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Wait, Kaguya is 12?!?!!?!?

That's my guess -- based on her attitude, comments, looks, and height, etc.

Look at how much shorter than Lelouch she is. She was also making comments about "marrying Lelouch" which is a very cliche "young girl to older man" statement to make, especially in anime its used a lot. And her comment about how he's so much taller, but not to worry because she would be growing a lot soon -- definitely a comment that a girl about to go through puberty would make. And in the flashback image she was much shorter than Suzaku as well, which tells us she's at least 3 years younger than Lelouch, maybe a little more.

[JediNight]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

*off topic* How popular was pizza in Japan prior to this?

My friends had Pizza Hut in Japan, and I think they said a medium pizza was like $15-17 or so. Vs around here a med is like $10-12. That was less than a year ago so...

www.pizzahut.jp -- they have weird stuff like broccoli and octopus on the pizza or something last time I saw the website lol...

[aikming]

Poor Euphie

Spoiler:

to have die with a stained name in history.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by aikming

Poor Euphie

Spoiler:

to have die with a stained name in history.

Frankly, it is unfortunate but far from surprising. Euphie was a kind person, but what stained her name isn't Zero's actions, but her family's history. Britannia as a whole would be remembered as a blood thirsty nation, proudly unjust and rewards prejudice.

To be honest, I don't see Euphie's "stain" ever becoming noticeable. She would be seen as "Just another one of those typical Britannian royals".

[etothex]

They did a good job of making it questionable if Suzaku knew Zero=Lelouch, but the line about Nunnally was a dead give-away. Also didn't any of you think it odd Suzaku asked Lelouch if he had someone he hated enough to kill? If he knows Lelouch at all, i'm sure he already knew the answer to that one. It was asked to lead into the break of their friendship. I would think that Suzaku knows that Lelouch understands hatred at a level far deeper than Suzaku could ever. Until now perhaps, but seems LL still has more reasons to hate.

[Newprimus]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Frankly, it is unfortunate but far from surprising. Euphie was a kind person, but what stained her name isn't Zero's actions, but her family's history. Britannia as a whole would be remembered as a blood thirsty nation, proudly unjust and rewards prejudice.

To be honest, I don't see Euphie's "stain" ever becoming noticeable. She would be seen as "Just another one of those typical Britannian royals".

Ehm, my impressions are that Britannian royals are oppressive and harsh, and rule over their subjects as if they were sub-humans, but they don't go on bloody, no-holds-barred, insane genocidal crusades. In that respect, Euphie would stand out.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by etothex

I would think that Suzaku knows that Lelouch understands hatred at a level far deeper than Suzaku could ever.

Essentially, Suzaku has at this point only brought misery upon himself (killing his father). On the other hand, Lelouch's misery was contrived at the hands of others. Suzaku was capable of preventing what happened (the death of his father that is). Lelouch was not, and hence Lelouch can express more feelings of hatred than Suzaku because it wasn't in his power to prevent his mother's death.

Euphemia garnered a lot of respect by proposing that Special Administrative Region. Like you said VCV, her name was already tainted when she was born into the royal family of Britannia. Yet she did polish up her character a bit by making that proposal, but Zero ruined her chances of becoming a respectable figure.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Shinova

Ehm, my impressions are that Britannian royals are oppressive and harsh, and rule over their subjects as if they were sub-humans, but they don't go on bloody, no-holds-barred, insane genocidal crusades. In that respect, Euphie would stand out.

That's only the impression because you only see Area 11 years after the invasion, and even then only through the eyes of te Britannians.

Further, I was talking about history, and history likes to simplify things. When you boil it all down, the Britannian empire is a violent regime that uses heartless soldiers willing to kill women and children. The only effect historically Euphie's massacre will achieve is perhaps, the following passage in the history books:

"...yet, the empire walked a fine line between controlled brutality and absolute chaos in order to ensure the conquered Areas is still financially self-sustaining. This line was finally crossed when princess Euphemia Britannia, formerly considered a moderate in political arenas and of low profile, instigated a massacre of twenty thousand 11s under the guise of peace negotiations. The resulting unrest was to have far-reaching consequences and severely weakened the Royal family's control on the Area 11 populace.
The cause of the key incident remains a mystery to this day. Though historians agree under the political climate, it was inevitable the Britannian political and military policies would eventually break down and..."

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Frankly, it is unfortunate but far from surprising. Euphie was a kind person, but what stained her name isn't Zero's actions, but her family's history. Britannia as a whole would be remembered as a blood thirsty nation, proudly unjust and rewards prejudice.

To be honest, I don't see Euphie's "stain" ever becoming noticeable. She would be seen as "Just another one of those typical Britannian royals".

Ironically the man who ordered the massacre was a britannian himself.

"...yet, the empired walked a fine line between controlled brutality and absolute chaos in order to ensure the conquered Areas is still financially self-sustaining. This line was finally crossed when princess Euphemia Britannia, formerly considered a moderate in political arenas and of low profile, instigated a massacre of twenty thousand 11s under the guise of peace negotiations. The resulting unrest was to have far-reaching consequences and severely weakened the Royal family's control on the Area 11 populace.
The cause of the key incident remains a mystery to this day. Though historians agree under the political climate, it was inevitable the Britannian political and military policies would eventually break down and..."

Well as they say, history is written by the victors. Though in this case we already know who the winners will be anyways

Though I would tweak that part a bit, this act would not only weaken Britannia's control over Japan but led to a worldwide outcry against the country itself with the populace begging to spill britannian blood.

I mean that chinese man, ooo I'm sure the producers didn't go, "Hey lets add in a scene of a chinese man looking up in the sky while all this chaos was happening."

World War is coming. I don't see how this can be avoided.

[Eleutheria]

Another holy shit episode, but more predictable.

My thoughts on the episode:

1) I think Suzaku knows. Right when he said the "Don't look up at the sky" line, the camera cut to a shot of Avalon viewed from underneath. I interpret that to mean "Lulu, I'm coming for you, don't look up".

2) Lulu doesn't care whether Suzaku knows or not. He's past the point of no return, and has apparently planned out his strategy assuming that Suzaku will indeed come for him.

3) I worry for Ashford and Nunnaly, both of whom are defenseless except for Higurashi Nina.

4) Kaguya... what can I say, ロリ万歳 She actually referred to Zero's "debut", like he was an idol

5) Did anyone else get the feeling that Lulu got laid after he broke down in the room when talking about Euphemia? In any case, the way the camera cut to C2 after Lulu said he made a pact with an akuma, made me laugh.

6) Dalton's going for Cornelia's head. "Sir, your wounds..." "I don't care I have to get to the princess".

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Ironically the man who ordered the massacre was a britannian himself.

Triggered? Yes. But calling it ordered is a bit of a stretch.

But you are right, Lulu is just playing by his father's rules. I remember the other thread when people complained about how the Resistance should stop fighting because many 11s would rather get oppressed peace. And that Zero's army should just let it go because the Britannian invasion was so long ago and that they should move on.

Using the same rules, I can claim Britannia was the first ones who invade Japan without any consideration for the feeling of the Japanese population who didn't want to be violently invaded.
And if a few years is enough to allow people to move on, then by all means Zero can start a rebellion and dismantle the Britannian empire by force. He just have to wait a few years and Britannian people, under the same logic, will accept it and move on.

Zero is "playing" savior. But that's only because Lulu needed a political stance that was diagrammatically opposite to that of his father, in order to have his soldiers fighting on the same side as he is. As for history, Zero will be looked upon favourably even if Euphie's Geassing got known. Historians love glorifying those who crushed empires.

[Juvyniled]

It can't be avoided any longer. It is all dependent on the extent that the conquered peoples rebel. After seeing a global broadcast of a Britannian princess freely murdering civilians, nobody, especially the people conquered by Britannia, will overlook this.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Triggered? Yes. But calling it ordered is a bit of a stretch.

Oh well you know how those Geasses work

Now that I think about it, Lelouch did something similar to those Brtiannian punks when he used Geass, "Your tired right? Of beating up the elevens?"

savior. But that's only because Lulu needed a political stance that was diagrammatically opposite to that of his father, in order to have his soldiers fighting on the same side as he is. As for history, Zero will be looked upon favourably even if Euphie's Geassing got known. Historians love glorifying those who crushed empires.

I got something better.

It'd be more groundbreaking if it was released that Zero was in fact a Britannian prince who swore revenge against his father for not protecting his mother. Then it'll be realized that the whole situation was nothing more than a blood feud and showed the world that even they weren't safe from the royal family infightings

[W-General]

I like how there's actually there's one vote in the poll for "1: Painful" - a rather fitting description in that this episode is not a bad episode. It's an awesome episode, but the tragedy can be a bit painful for some to watch.

[Setonai]

So.. next week is like the last episodes combine ....