K-On! - Episode 13 [Bonus] Discussion / Poll

[npal]

Well, I was rather pleasantly surprised, for something KyoAni made anyway. This week seems to be generally good for KyoAni, even the new Haruhi episode was actually interesting enough (despite half of it being ep 2 )

Anyway on K-ON, the extra was rather nice. The totally different slice of life feel without taking away all the moe stuff was rather nice. I kinda wish the whole thing was more like this, not that the rest was bad or anything, although some jokes were getting a bit recycled. Generally it felt like a much better finale... but for a totally different series. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad, but that's what it is.

[Kaioshin Sama]

So after hearing how this episode was supposed to be different or just plain superior to the other episodes I had to bite and give it a try. Unfortunately this yet again proved not to be the case, at least for the latter of the two assertations. The fact is I can sum up this episode in a single sentence, one that appears in the dialogue more than enough. "It is the winter, and it is cold!"

Except here is the real problem, it isn't the winter, this episode comes smack dab in the middle of the scorching summer when it's hot as heck outside. This is more a problem of timing then anything though, but it really has an adverse effect here and plus there was ample opportunity to have dealt with that issue. This is supposed to be an extra episode obviously, so why not have made this the DVD special and have that DVD come out when it's actually winter. It would be perfect then (okay maybe not perfect but workable) and maybe I could find myself actually relating to the girls activities at large, which is something that now I've felt this series has managed to obstruct me from right up to the very end sans episode 08.

That's the biggest problem of all that still continues into this final extra, the characters are just hard to relate too. When I found I was worrying and concerning myself more with what I thought was a sick cat during the episodes sudden drama break (though like all drama breaks in this show the issue is solved even more rapidly and simply then when it gets introduced) and in fact found the cat story just generally more interesting to watch in general (honestly it really did come across as having more personality then Azusa) then I think it's really safe to say that these characters have just totally failed as a cast.

As the Beatles said in their final masterpiece The End, "And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make". Well in the end K-On didn't make a whole lot of sincere love, and hence there's not a whole lot of it I can take and delight in. Though I am glad I at least gave this episode a chance and felt it was worth seeing by virtue of being something a little different for this show......but not by much. The same old problems just keep it down.

[faervas]

What I got out of the episode is what the girls are like away from each other. "It's fun playing with this band" has a lot more meaning. Yui has Ui to riff moe goodness with, so her easy at which to goof off was a natural out growth from her home life. The other girls are only comfortable to be truly Moe with in the group. it's an interesting commentary on how we put on mask to server the dynamic of given social group.

[npal]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Except here is the real problem, it isn't the winter, this episode comes smack dab in the middle of the scorching summer when it's hot as heck outside. This is more a problem of timing then anything though, but it really has an adverse effect here and plus there was ample opportunity to have dealt with that issue. This is supposed to be an extra episode obviously, so why not have made this the DVD special and have that DVD come out when it's actually winter. It would be perfect then (okay maybe not perfect but workable) and maybe I could find myself actually relating to the girls activities at large, which is something that now I've felt this series has managed to obstruct me from right up to the very end sans episode 08.

That's the biggest problem of all that still continues into this final extra, the characters are just hard to relate too. When I found I was worrying and concerning myself more with what I thought was a sick cat during the episodes sudden drama break (though like all drama breaks in this show the issue is solved even more rapidly and simply then when it gets introduced) and in fact found the cat story just generally more interesting to watch in general (honestly it really did come across as having more personality then Azusa) then I think it's really safe to say that these characters have just totally failed as a cast.
.

I actually never expected to see an "it's not winter" argument, more so coming from YOU. Sure some things suit certain seasons more but not being able to relate in part because it's a winter setting and half the globe is in summer is rather... concerning.

The other problem you may have... Oh well, everyone's different I suppose. I can relate to Ritsu, I can relate to Mio, I can relate to Mugi. Well, Yui is beyond human comprehension therefore while she's my favorite, most of the time, I find understanding her rather hard. I can also relate to Azusa, at least in this episode.

The fact is that at the very least we saw a different side of Ritsu and Mugi that wasn't uber dramatic as the previous eps and their little plight actually had some merit this time around (unlike the Ritsu cold case). I'm sure you're not one of those that needs a "Character information" large blinking arrow pointing to the char in question when such things happen, so I take for a fact that you did notice that the character part wasn't the same old thing. In the series in its entirety the characters have been drawn pretty consistently and detailed enough, not too extensively but that wasn't the point. The point is that we are in a position to know the characters enough to be able to relate to some. I cannot sincerely blame the series for your inability to relate to the characters after this last episode.

The thing is, sure K-ON wasn't spectacular, but it was good enough and, while the whole hype thing is annoying, it's come to a point where it gets bashed more for the things it didn't do wrong than for the real issues it might have had.

[Justin Kim]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

You know, one of the problems with plotlines like Ritsu's in this episode is that because of the way the show's formatted you know it'll end up just being a misunderstanding for two reasons:

-None of the girls can have a boyfriend.

-They also can't be shown rejecting a guy.

It's just the way these 4koma girly shows work.

Lol, I think some first-time viewers will probably confuse K-On! as one of those romance series show that always involves a harem or relationship to one guy. But rather the entire intention was to be focused on the dreams of 4 band players making it to Budokan.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

This is supposed to be an extra episode obviously, so why not have made this the DVD special and have that DVD come out when it's actually winter. It would be perfect then (okay maybe not perfect but workable) and maybe I could find myself actually relating to the girls activities at large...

But it is an episode that will appear on the seventh DVD being released in the Winter (January 2010). They just decided to air it on TV; this way people won't have to wait seven months to see it. Is this like looking a gift horse in the mouth?

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

When I found I was worrying and concerning myself more with what I thought was a sick cat during the episodes sudden drama break and in fact found the cat story just generally more interesting to watch in general I think it's really safe to say that these characters have just totally failed as a cast.

I challenge you to find the logical fallacy in this statement.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

But it is an episode that will appear on the seventh DVD being released in the Winter (January 2010). They just decided to air it on TV; this way people won't have to wait seven months to see it. Is this like looking a gift horse in the mouth?

I challenge you to find the logical fallacy in this statement.

Sigh....I grow weary having to defend my posts on this series. Anyway I'm sick right now and my head is cloudy so I'm not up for the usual banter so what if say that I just didn't think it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen in my life and it doesn't do anything to alleviate the fact that I feel the characters are bland and uninteresting regardless of what setting they are put in, Winter/Summer, Rain/Shine, Day/Night, Playing Music/Not Playing Music? Is this satisfying enough?

I'll also throw in that I don't see the logical fallacy in the statement that I know you are trying to highlight. When a one shot character that isn't even of the same species as me comes across as more interesting then the main cast overall I do think that says something about the weakness of the regulars, in my eyes. I know I made it sound like an outright confirmation, but really I meant it more as evidence. Maybe some people thought these characters were amazingly well handled, their antics heartwarming and clever and their relationship existent and solidified, but I did not. People keep trying to claim I missed something, but it's probably not so much that I missed anything as that what is signficant to some is irrelevant to me or at best run of the mill.

[Tamad]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Except here is the real problem, it isn't the winter, this episode comes smack dab in the middle of the scorching summer when it's hot as heck outside. This is more a problem of timing then anything though, but it really has an adverse effect here and plus there was ample opportunity to have dealt with that issue. This is supposed to be an extra episode obviously, so why not have made this the DVD special and have that DVD come out when it's actually winter. It would be perfect then (okay maybe not perfect but workable) and maybe I could find myself actually relating to the girls activities at large, which is something that now I've felt this series has managed to obstruct me from right up to the very end sans episode 08.

Now here's something different. Everything that you've ever stated in these episodic discussions have been your opinion, and I've always come to respect and understand those opinions (not just yours, but everyone's), whether I agree with them or not. That paragraph right there though, is the silliest and most pointless complaint I've ever heard for this series that wasn't just straight up bashing. The fact that you're trying to justify it logically to just makes it seem like you're picking up any opportunity to dislike this series.

Your lack of feel for the characters is a hit or miss. Yes, the characters in general aren't exactly the deepest characters, I go so far as to call them one-dimensional at times, but you have to admit they Kyoani tried to add more depth there, regardless of how sloppy or superficial it was. It might not have been enough for most of us, but it certainly was present.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Tamad

Now here's something different. Everything that you've ever stated in these episodic discussions have been your opinion, and I've always come to respect and understand those opinions (not just yours, but everyone's), whether I agree with them or not. That paragraph right there though, is the silliest and most pointless complaint I've ever heard for this series that wasn't just straight up bashing. The fact that you're trying to justify it logically to just makes it seem like you're picking up any opportunity to dislike this series.

Your lack of feel for the characters is a hit or miss. Yes, the characters in general aren't exactly the deepest characters, I go so far as to call them one-dimensional at times, but you have to admit they Kyoani tried to add more depth there, regardless of how sloppy or superficial it was. It might not have been enough for most of us, but it certainly was present.

Indeed they tried to do things a little differently with this episode which I think I pointed out in my paragraph while also adding that unfortunately the same old problems keep bringing it down for me in the end.

I also admit that that paragraph was more an expression of frustration then anything else with how it seems this series has tried to block me from relating to the characters activities on just about every level now. I shouldn't have let it get the best of me. Oh well, there's just as many irrational statements that go towards trying to objectively lavishing praise on the show, but I will at least admit that I was being subjective with that paragraph.

[Tatiana Razajev]

I think the main appeal to this episode was getting to see the girls apart from each other. At least for a bit. Which caused the episode to have a different feel than usual. In any case, I can see exactly why this is considered an extra episode. I mean I did like the episode over all, but definitely would not haved worked as an "ending" episode at all.

Oh, and Tsumugi in braids is nice. Also, I like the scene where she tried to cool down her hands. Nice to see that was included in some form. It's rather interesting to see what Ritsu looks like without the hairband. Quite a bit of difference.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Indeed they tried to do things a little differently with this episode which I think I pointed out in my paragraph while also adding that unfortunately the same old problems keep bringing it down for me in the end.

I also admit that that paragraph was more an expression of frustration then anything else with how it seems this series has tried to block me from relating to the characters activities on just about every level now. I shouldn't have let it get the best of me. Oh well, there's just as many irrational statements that go towards trying to objectively lavishing praise on the show, but I will at least admit that I was being subjective with that paragraph.

I've always approached this series as a silly escapism and not much else, so trying to present a pseudo-intellectual dislike of a show as a self-evident truth for not being something else shows is but a demonstration of petty critical chauvinism. Seriously I have to take Aroduc's critiques as being far more intellectually honest even when he goes a little carried away at times...

[Wyxor]

Great ending for a great anime, 10/10 please lolftw

[kb7]

Anyone noticed the neko-cup of Azunyan while they were having tea towards the end?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by aldw

I've always approached this series as a silly escapism and not much else, so trying to present a pseudo-intellectual dislike of a show as a self-evident truth for not being something else shows is but a demonstration of petty critical chauvinism. Seriously I have to take Aroduc's critiques as being far more intellectually honest even when he goes a little carried away at times...

Why is it that I am getting the impression that people are insisting that I absolutely have to love everything about these characters otherwise there's something wrong with how I'm watching the show? When has my commentary ever been phrased in a pseudo-intellectual manner? This whole time I've just been giving my reactions to the episodes and I fail to see anything I have done wrong in the slightest in sticking to my opinion and right to state that episode by episode these characters have stagnated and just never got anymore interesting.

Yes I am criticizing this show for not being something else in having had characters that actually evolved and grew. Is this a problem? For me the problem is that in order to escape into a show I actually have to be engrossed by it throughout the majority of the episodes run time. K-On was rarely engrossing to me and thus viewed as escapism it was a failure. What else do people want me to say? Do they want me to lie? Cause right now I am being honest. Apparently that's not exactly good enough though and I have to find something extra special in a series that just doesn't warrant me to. If people want me to lie then let me know because really it doesn't bother me either way at this point since people already know the truth.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

People keep trying to claim I missed something, but it's probably not so much that I missed anything as that what is signficant to some is irrelevant to me or at best run of the mill.

So, to rephrase, "it's not that I'm doing anything wrong, it's that the things others like are either unimportant or trivial to me". But isn't this exactly what people are trying to say when they accuse you of "missing something"? That the things you like are either unimportant or trivial to them? That if you valued the same things they did, maybe you would have liked it just as much? So why are you so "weary" of having to defend yourself when all you're doing is just throwing the same argument in the other direction? It has nothing to do at all with you having a contrary point of view. As long as you keep acting like the opinions of others are either "irrelevant" or "run of the mill", we'll keep on having this argument.

...but not in this thread. It's already gone on long enough.

[Tempura]

Originally Posted by kb7

Anyone noticed the neko-cup of Azunyan while they were having tea towards the end?

Oooh, nice find~

Probably her personal cup?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

So, to rephrase, "it's not that I'm doing anything wrong, it's that the things others like are either unimportant or trivial to me". But isn't this exactly what people are trying to say when they accuse you of "missing something"? That the things you like are either unimportant or trivial to them? That if you valued the same things they did, maybe you would have liked it just as much? So why are you so "weary" of having to defend yourself when all you're doing is just throwing the same argument in the other direction? It has nothing to do at all with you having a contrary point of view. As long as you keep acting like the opinions of others are either "irrelevant" or "run of the mill", we'll keep on having this argument.

...but not in this thread. It's already gone on long enough.

Me missing something and me finding something irrelevant are two very different concepts. It's possible to be aware of something and still not find it engrossing after all. Anyway I would have thought it was obvious that if I valued the same things other people did that I would have had a different opinion of this series for better or worse depending on who it was that I am not. That's all purely theoretical though and this thread is definitely not the place to delve into such discussion I would agree.

I will however add that I've never felt the opinions of others are irrelevant or run of the mill (common would be a word I would potentially use in some cases), but have indirectly made clear (or so I had thought) that to me what they value may not be what I do. As the saying goes one man's trash is another man's treasure and likewise the same works in reverse.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Me missing something and me finding something irrelevant are two very different concepts.

No, I think you're missing the subtleties of what's being said. People aren't telling you that you're "thinking about it wrong", as if you could just change your thinking and suddenly enjoy the show. Enjoyment is personal and subjective. What you're "missing" is the values and preferences of those who enjoy this material. That isn't something that can be "learnt" by just thinking about it in "the right way". It's completely subjective.

But anyway, end.

[chikorita157]

I finally watched the episode, although it might not be as exciting as it is, it's still very enjoyable, slice of life episode...

Rating: 8.5/10 -> 9/10

Full Extra Episode Reaction

[Fran~]

Ricchan's "love letter" = Kagamin's "love letter" = owned

I really like it... it was a perfect way to show in just one episode the basis of the "cute girls doing cute things" animes.

Thanks for the fun and the music provided Kyo-Ani...

Domo