[Manga] Naruto Chapter 590 Discussion

[Tong]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Maybe that will make Sasuke less revenge directed since Itachi had a free choice of what to so. No one forced him to kill Uchiha, it was a free choice.

As is someone forcing you to format your HD or else they're going destroy your PC.
No matter the choice, YOU WILL LOSE and is practically forced to.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by ronin myael

it's interesting to note that itachi never claimed tobi to be madara nor did tobi claim to be madara in that flashback.

true, but he doesn't deny being uchiha when itachi says that only uchiha know about the secret tablet. also, itachi knows he told sasuke he was madara back when they fought. so why not enlighten him now if need be?

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

The story of this chapter was great,
although the parents saying "we are proud of you" and "I understand" while Itachi is killing them was stupid

I liked that part. it was very ninja-like imo which doesn't happen too much in this story oddly enough. they knew they were no match for itachi's MS and they knew his choice so they just accepted their fates and found inner peace before dying. almost like seppuku but at the hands of someone else.

i thought this chapter was great. it gave us a more complete picture of several main characters (in the uchiha massacre anyway) hiruzen, danzo, shisui and itachi all seem more complete to me now and their actions make more sense. also, sasuke's decisions from now on will make more sense and be more justified since he now has the complete picture as well. i thought the sasuke itachi encounter started off great, then izanami was just awful unfortunately.. but now, I'm glad this all happened. i think this was a fitting ending for the brothers. i'm sure it will be an emotional episode in the show

i'm very eager to see what happens with tobi and edo-madara now. and sasuke and kabuto for that matter.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Maybe that will make Sasuke less revenge directed since Itachi had a free choice of what to so. No one forced him to kill Uchiha, it was a free choice.

Sasuke didn't learn anything new, Itachi basically told him everything he was told was true so why would he change his mind?

Originally Posted by Discerptor

this should put to rest all the murmurs around here suggesting that the Uchiha massacre was somehow proof that he was a weak leader.

Murmurs? Amusing way to put it.
This chapter simply retold us what we already knew, Hiruzen said he was going to find a strategy to resolve things without violence and Danzou immediately undercutted him and convinced Itachi to partake in the genocide of his clan for the sake of his little brother's life behind Sarutobi's back.

[MysticNinjaJay]

Great chapter.

The scene with Itachi and his parents was touching. This solidifies the fact that Itachi was not an intentional traitor to the Uchiha but in fact was left heartbroken over the fact that he had to slay his own parents and clan to protect the village. His parents were actually understanding and still loved him.

And Sasuke saw all of this....

Itachi was put in ti quite a position. If he didn't kill the Uchiha a civil war would result in the destruction of Konoha and the annihilation of the Uchiha anyway. Sasuke would no doubt be killed in the chaos. Doing it Danzou's way at the very least ensured that Sasuke would survive (although Danzou sent Sai to assassinate Sasuke so he was a lying snake).


This will only effect Sasuke more emotionally. Itachi didn't tell him anything he didn't already know he just showed him the truth which will only reinforce Sasuke's hatred for the village. I think the only thing at this point that could dissuade Sasuke is him learning Tobi's true agenda including the fact that he summoned Kyuubi to destroy Konoha and in the process framed the Uchiha, something Tobi insisted was not true and a truth that only Naruto is aware of because his parents told him.

Originally Posted by LightMusicBand

I do indeed enjoy this chapter, though it wasn't the best time to release the Edo Tensei. I mean, the Kages vs. Madara fight is getting really interesting. And even though most think that the kages are no match to the "perfect" Susano of Madara, still, I wouldn't want the fight to end in Madara dissolving away due to the release of the jutsu. I mean, it's like watching a really great action movie, when the bad guy is about to kill the hero, but deep in your mind you're thinking that the hero at one point will reverse the situation and eventually win, but before the climax, your pesky brother changed the channel.

You know...

I think Kishimoto felt it was important that it happen this way. Madara was the unbeatable ancient evil that was so powerful not even the 5 Kage together could defeat him. They were not going to win a straight up battle which made Itachi's mission to defeat Kabuto and cancel Edo Tensei necessary. Madara boasted that only the 1st Hokage was a ninja powerful enough to defeat him. No ninja of that caliber exist in the modern Ninja world. Sasuke is being groomed as a successor to Madara, an Uchiha whose powers have been heightened to the point that they rival the legendary Sage of 6 paths. Naruto the son of the great 4th Hokage is the ninja that most stop him and save the Ninja world.

Originally Posted by kitten320

Maybe that will make Sasuke less revenge directed since Itachi had a free choice of what to so. No one forced him to kill Uchiha, it was a free choice.

Sasuke already made it clear that even if Itachi forgives the Konoha leaders for putting him in that position he will not. His life's purpose is to avenge the Uchiha and when he learned that Itachi was ordered to do it his quest for vengeance was redirected from his brother to the people who benefited from the Uchiha massacre i.e. all of Konoha.

The one detail that I think can return him to sanity is learning that Kyuubi's attack was not a natural disaster. It was a plot by a mysterious masked man who has been misleading him in order to help him with a larger plan (Infinite Tsukiyomi).

Tobi's true identity and true agenda are the key to everything it seems.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Sasuke didn't learn anything new, Itachi basically told him everything he was told was true so why would he change his mind?

To be fair, it is one thing for an unknown individual to tell you that your clan was doing something bad, and it is another when a member of your clan tells you they are doing something bad. Itachi confirmed for Sasuke that the Uchiha Clan was not simply traitorous to Konoha, but their actions would have led to the deaths of tens of thousands throughout the ninjaverse. Consequently, despite Sasuke's hard-on for revenge he now knows (even if he is not willing to accept) that Konoha was mostly justified in their preemptive actions against the clan.

[Mists]

Weird how Itachi says Madara before (your ameratasu was a defense...) and Tobi now...

Also, was he just reluctant in Akatsuki finding the 9-tailed? I wonder if he even knew Akatsuki was actually run by Tobi? I'm curious about his purpose on joining...or was that a way to live in shame?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Mists

Also, was he just reluctant in Akatsuki finding the 9-tailed? I wonder if he even knew Akatsuki was actually run by Tobi? I'm curious about his purpose on joining...or was that a way to live in shame?

itachi joined akatsuki to protect konoha and to solidify his phony rogue evil character that he created so that sasuke had someone to direct his hate at. itachi assuredly knew that tobi ran the show. he told sasuke a lot about him when they fought. and tobi didn't like itachi around, since he was protecting konoha, but itachi was too powerful for tobi to kill at that time. plus, itachi was useful to an extent for akatsuki, but mostly he was a hindrance on them, unknown to the good guys of course. while he lived, he kept everyone (akatsuki and danzo) in check. when he died, everything went crazy and akatsuki started a full on assault and war proclamation

[Phoenix321]

There is a panel during the Itachi-Danzo talk where Danzo's uncovered eye is drawn to portray Danzo's happiness when finally asking what will Itachi do.(It's curved)
This leads me to believe that Danzo already knew the answer and given how in the Kage summit he stats how he doesn't leave things to chance, he used Shisui Eye to brain wash Itach just like in the summit!
Even Itachi said that he would have gone to Sasuke and told him the truth to see his view!

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by james0246

To be fair, it is one thing for an unknown individual to tell you that your clan was doing something bad, and it is another when a member of your clan tells you they are doing something bad. Itachi confirmed for Sasuke that the Uchiha Clan was not simply traitorous to Konoha, but their actions would have led to the deaths of tens of thousands throughout the ninjaverse. Consequently, despite Sasuke's hard-on for revenge he now knows (even if he is not willing to accept) that Konoha was mostly justified in their preemptive actions against the clan.

I think you've completely missing the point of this chapter if you think it was about the Uchiha being in the wrong.

This was all about family bond and still doing what you feel is right even when it's a necessary (in the best of case) evil.
This is what both Itachi and his parents felt at the end : I can't agree with your actions but I love you anyway which in turn mirrors the relation between Sasuke and Itachi. And perhaps with a little more understanding to the relation the Uchiha clan and Konoha's power that be could have been without all this mistrust.

Oh yeah and personally I think that except for the fact they couldn't have succeeded the Uchiha were the ones in the right.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Sasuke didn't learn anything new, Itachi basically told him everything he was told was true so why would he change his mind?

I think he learned one new thing: Danzou did use Sasuke to drive Itachi into a corner. If i remember correctly Tobi only said that Danzou drove Itachi into this decision but didn't specifically mention that he used Sasuke himself. So if Sasuke thinks that the village leaders used him, a defensless child, to corner Itachi, then his hate will increase even more.

Originally Posted by The Small One

I think the scene with Itachi and his friend was a bit disappointing.
This guy was supposed to have a fully developed Sharingan and his special technique, and yet he was defeated by Danzou. And all he can do is give his other eye to Itachi…

He was loyal to the village, just like Itachi, and Danzou took full advantage of that. And this is what makes the village completely worthless in my eyes, 2 loyal warriors being betrayed and used by their leaders, such an organization is evil and worthless. If i were a non-uchiha ninja of this village then this one fact alone would make me take the Uchiha's side and fight against the village in a civil war.

The problem with this flashback was that it didn't tell anything about how did both of these two teenage uchiha obtain the MS eyes and also how did Tobi's attack on the village lead to the Uchiha being accused doing it. Of course my guess is that Tobi had his hand in this too, since he was around the village the whole time (him not taking Naruto away seems to be a large plot hole), Itachi even stated that he entered the Uchiha's secret place.

[Lendial]

this chapter was incredibly touching. i hope this sense of closure makes sasuke more tolerable in the coming chapters.

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Itachi even stated that he entered the Uchiha's secret place.

Oh man! This line cracked me up

[Alchemist007]

T'was a good chapter for what it was going for emotionally.

[mayumi]

it looks like uchiha wanted more power and that is why they started the coup as opposed to them being segregated or whatever. i would have liked to see this part, since itachi was double agent. we should have seen the scene of the uchiha gathering and why they wanted the coup. it would have made us understand their motivations more clear. right now why they wanted the coup is still very vague. would they plan to take people alive or were they planning exterminating the kids of konoha as well? capture naruto hold him hostage etc.

sympathy can go both ways but itachi only showed the situation about danzou not the one about the uchiha clan and their coup and plans.

[Seitsuki]

Oh Jesus H Christ the fujoshi will be all over this

Run for the hills!

[mystogan]

now we know everything about Itachi Uchiha, he did cry when he had to kill his parents, even if itachi hadn't betrayed the Uchiha, then sasuke would have been caught up in the civil war, if he had survived there, he would try to take revenge even then, it seems that sasuke's fate to take revenge from the leaf was inevitable no matter what decision itachi had made, Danzou had emotionally cornered itachi the same way tobi had emotionally used sasuke
what it would have really been like if itachi told sasuke the truth back then,would sasuke really been able to change the uchiha?
i hope that sasuke's decisions now would really change the name of the uchiha

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by mayumi

we should have seen the scene of the uchiha gathering and why they wanted the coup. it would have made us understand their motivations more clear. right now why they wanted the coup is still very vague. would they plan to take people alive or were they planning exterminating the kids of konoha as well? capture naruto hold him hostage etc.

It's already been explained by Tobi.
The relation between the Uchiha and their governement strained after Madara's attack and when they realized their position as the police force was meant to keep them grouped together and out of any real political power.
After decades of brewing distrust the last straw came with Tobi's attack on Konoha when Konoha's Elders suspecting them to have an hand in it decided to move the whole clan at a remote corner of the village where they could be more easily quarantined and put under surveillance.
A few years of this finally broke the camel's back and the Uchiha decided to rebel against Konoha leadership and take back power.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Murmurs? Amusing way to put it.
This chapter simply retold us what we already knew, Hiruzen said he was going to find a strategy to resolve things without violence and Danzou immediately undercutted him and convinced Itachi to partake in the genocide of his clan for the sake of his little brother's life behind Sarutobi's back.

I'd hardly consider finding a cleaner solution for Hiruzen than mounting a full ANBU assault "undercutting" him. And as we know from previous accounts, it's not like Hiruzen didn't know about Itachi being assigned to this. The only statement we have from anyone on how the negotiations actually went is that they failed, not that they were cut short. What I found surprising about the whole situation was that in terms of methodology, Danzou could almost be perceived as the nice one between the two of them in this chapter.

[HasuMasu]

It's not like Madara intended to be revived using Edo Tensei.

Just as planned.

[solidguy]

I read the chapter title like this