Kanon - 2006 - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Devil Doll]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I think it was the "just a magical animal" that made it sound harsh.

If you prefer a "<" operator (sounding less emotional) for the same statement, then consider it being used. They're equivalent for me.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Devil Doll

If you prefer a "<" operator (sounding less emotional) for the same statement, then consider it being used. They're equivalent for me.

? If you're implying that Makoto was worth less because of her origins then you're applying a judgement on her value that really doesn't fit well in Shinto/Buddhist thinking.
Usually in english, "just a..." is used equivalently for "only a..." or "merely a..." and in this context implies Makoto is less worthy or important - which is a sentiment that might be considered harsh.

[npal]

Not to mention that a serious pet owner rarely views it as "just an animal".

[Skyfall]

I think what he meant with "just a" is not that Makoto is not important, but rather than she might be less "important" compared to the other girls, who in the end are actual humans. Perhaps the knowledge that Makoto is "just a(n)" animal, when it boils down to it, plays a part in why Yuuichi seemed more stressed over Mai/Shiori.

While such reasoning might seem harsh, i think i can agree to it(to some degree). And while a pet owner indeed rarely views his pet as "just an animal", i think it is reasonable to assume that he would care more about a human, if the time he spent with both would be the same. (Which, more or less, is the case here, imo) - hence why he seemed to be able to "brush aside" the whole Makoto incident.

Then again i don't like Makoto, and my opinion might be biased on this one ... but should Yuuichi choose to rate the other girls above Makoto, i could certainly see where he is coming from.

[npal]

LOL

And I take it that, besides your bias against Makoto, you never had a pet get lost or die. It's a whole new experience if you were the one that took care of it.

[Skyfall]

Your take would be completely wrong As for having a pet - i had a cat bought for me when i was 3 ... the cat lived for 17 years ...meaning i was 20 when it died... meaning not so long ago. I will leave it up to you to imagine how i felt, but i was not exactly cheerful. In fact i have 2 cats right now as well (one being 8 years old, the second being 5 months old), so that should cover the part whether i know what it means to have a pet.

Still i think that i would have felt worse should a close friend of mine, whom i had known since the age of 3, had died. (And yes - i did cry the day my cat passed away, i cried all the time while i was digging the grave in my back yard).

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by npal

And I take it that, besides your bias against Makoto, you never had a pet get lost or die. It's a whole new experience if you were the one that took care of it.

Don't remind me still haven't quite recovered from that.

In any case, saying "just an animal" is still pretty rude. Yuuichi treated her and probably even thought of her as another human being.

[Devil Doll]

Compare the effect on Yuuichi of having lost an animal (we've seen it already) to whatever happened 7 years ago. That more like "<<<<<". I'm just stating the facts.

[Vexx]

It really shouldn't be a question of assigning value... yeah when rescuing two beings in a carwreck, you probably rescue the human first before the dog if the choice is necessary. However, qualifiers could make that choice more difficult. An animal has worth and validity even if you plan to eat it. But here we have a supernatural situation: Makoto became human to meet Yuuichi. This is outside everyone's experience here I think, so the usual value judgements don't really work. So unfortunately "the facts" you're stating are incomplete and technically, they are assertions.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Yeesh...Doesn't matter if Makoto's true form was an animal. the sentimental value she has in Yuuichi's heart probably isn't any much less significant than Shiori's. That's enough. The point is, Yuuichi is shown to be treating Makoto like a human, a friend or perhaps an annoying little sister.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Yeesh...Doesn't matter if Makoto's true form was an animal. the sentimental value she has in Yuuichi's heart probably isn't any much less significant than Shiori's. That's enough. The point is, Yuuichi is shown to be treating Makoto like a human, a friend or perhaps an annoying little sister.

I was about to bring this up myself, as the determining of Makoto stock-prices was beginning to get out of hand.

On a completely different note, I have a feeling we haven't see nthe absolute last of Shiori just yet. We did see Mai and Sayuri after their arch was "over," you know

[Vexx]

And I'm pretty confident that even the Mai/Sayuri arc isn't completely over ... I think there are still elements to play out. I suspect we'll also get some more story points in Shiori's case (whether it be Shiori & Kaori ... or just Kaori) later. Just as Shiori's "story" started way back in ep 3 ...

Hell, I suspect we'll see Yuuichi visit Makoto's hill to have little chats with Makoto-kami.

[Devil Doll]

I would like to see Yuuichi on the hill as well. But I think he wasn't even the character most affected by Makoto's story (probably because he was able to fulfill Makoto's wish in the end). Akiko may have suffered more.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by npal

Not to mention that a serious pet owner rarely views it as "just an animal".

One of my cats that I raised from a kitten lays under the covers with me the whole night with her head and paws rested on my arm. Then when I'm online at night she sleeps on my lap to keep me and her warm.

Yes they are more than 'just animals' to me.

Loved this episode. Just didn't like the shading of the eyes. It didn't work for me, that's why I gave the episode a 9. The rest of the animation, the dance, the music, Shiori... Everything else was perfect.

[Scep]

when i saw the whole thing end, i was going "wtf?". Its like, suddenly she disappears? But overall the whole episode gets a 10 from me. Good BGM and excellent story.

[Lilith]

Ep 18
Like the others, aside from the unsatisfying ending (a mere "Goodbye"?), I loved this episode. The dance itself gets a 10. And the whole party. Not to mention the fountain scene...

Ahh, the fountain scene. *melts* Words can't describe how astonishing and beautiful it was. The great artwaork of fountain water and snow, the amazing suitable BGM, the bitter sweet conversation, the blushing faces... both Shiori and Yuuichi are damn cute.

Yuuichii's "Yeah" reminded me of Honey & Clover's scene in which Ayu repeated "I love you" at Mayama and he continued responding with "Yeah" (loved that scene).

Personally, I kept thinking that Shiori will be the girl. Holding hands and kissing her cheek... Hmm. Then again he "married" Makoto, so I don't know LOL.

Skane, Shiori and Yuuichi's staring at the crab because it's the new toy in that weird toys' store (at least that's what I think ).

[Raniie]

Originally Posted by guuchan

(...)
1)Why she said she didn't know the name nor the class of the person she's trying to meet? Yes, she could have lied, but other than the illness, I don't see a reason why she needed to lie about that to a person she just met the second time;

If you can give a convincing answer to those 3 questions, then I will accept that she's there to see Kaori.


'Cause that store is known to sell weird stuff toys, and that crab is weird indeed. How often do you see a crab stuff toy (and a big one too)?

As evidence be my witness. Shiori DID lied to Yuuichi for your point #1. Go watch episode 13; timestamp 6:15 - 6:18.

Yuuichi: Hey, there's a girl in my class with the same last name as you. Misaka Kaori.
Shiori: Yuuichi-san, you're in the same class as my sister?

As the dialogue continues, Shiori continues to be dishonest to Yuuichi. You can see it in the reaction of her face. Now take note of the scene where she said "I love my sister." and where she's looking at. She was looking at her sister from a distance as she said that. At time stamp 7:34+ you'll see Kaori looking at Shiori and Yuuichi talking at the courtyard.

So Skane stand corrected . Shiori DOES know what class Kaori is in.

I mean, heck, go revisit episode 17; timestamp 12:22 Even when Shiori is looking for Yuuichi this time and went to his class room. She was looking at Kaori instead of him. Shiori was mainly using Yuuichi as a stepladder to get closer to Kaori. As Skane stated before. Shiori's goal is Kaori, not Yuuichi. This isn't a harem series damnit!

Shiori's first visit to the court yard was because of her sister, Kaori. NOT because of hoping to see Yuuichi. If it wasn't for Jun pointing it out for Yuuichi. Shiori wouldn't have an encounter with him nor would Yuuichi. Kaori made a promise to eat lunch with Shiori at that area, we learn this in episode 18. In episode 3, where we saw her first visit, Shiori went to the courtyard was reflecting back on Kaori's promise and her reason for being there. She was looking at her sister's class room when she was standing out there. It was thanks to the Yuuichi and Ayu's encounter, that made her go there, but it was not because in hopes to see Yuuichi, but in hopes for her sister to take notice of her for being out there.

What occured that day where she met Yuuichi and Ayu was the very simple things she has been yearning for from her sister. She wants to be able to do the same thing, that Yuuichi and Ayu showed her, with Kaori.

It was just a coincidence that Yuuich end up in the same class room. If Kaori was in a different class room or Yuuichi for that matter, he would've never met Shiori there again nor was Shiori specifically looking for him. There was really no reason for her to, she wouldn't know where to start if she did.

Shiori wasn't a very honest person at the begining, which is why she said a lot of misleading things and managed to confused a lot of viewers.

So yes, Skane is correct that Shiori first visit was for her sister, Kaori.

Kinda late backing you up Skane, but better later than not at all, eh? :P

[yura`]

Like some others have pointed out, the shading of the eyes didn't work too well for me either, but otherwise the episode was pretty good. I love the technical work on it, especially the fountain scene, with the lighting effects and colour changes. Just beautiful.

I didn't think much of Shiori at first, honestly speaking, but now that we're at this point, her character is truly a tragic one. Her story is a bit different from the other girls - there are actual elements of romance in this one, unlike Yuuichi's relationships with the other girls. Her cheerful disposition despite knowing what's happening to her...

I do have to say - those images of Jun and Yuuichi dancing and with makeup on nonetheless! The horror! Lol.

On Shiori's first visit - I have to stand with both Skane and Raniie that she was there to see Kaori. What's more, remember that Shiori and Yuuichi have no previous connection at all prior to their first meeting. Shiori's not from Yuuichi's past after all.

Anyhow, I'll be waiting in anticipation for both Nayuki and Ayu's stories!

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Lilith

Personally, I kept thinking that Shiori will be the girl.

And that might as well be one of the reasons why they wrote Shiori out of the story (at least for the time being).
I mean - it is taken for granted that it is going to be either Nayuki or Ayu ending (provided that he does end up with one of the girls at all)... but with Shiori still in the play that would be hard to achieve, considering that his relationship with Shiori is the closest to being a romantic one at this point.

They would simply lack the time to develop a proper story with 3 girls after Yuuichi, where he is fairly close to one of them already(which can not turn out to be the "winner"), when the other two have yet to enter the playground.

So perhaps leaving Shiori out (at least for the moment) is the only time-efficient way for them to achieve Nayuki/Ayu ending... they would probably run out of time if they would have to resolve Nayuki/Ayu arcs in the remaining eps, with Yuuichi spending most of the time with Shiori ... let alone having him develop feelings for one of them.

[Meophist]

Still think she went for Yuuichi, but didn't expect to meet him. I think we've exhausted this arguement though.