[Manga] Chapter 490 Discussion

[james0246]

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Chapter Status: mostly complete spoiler released

- Kabuto and Madara talk. Kabuto emphasizes that his goal is Sasuke, not the death of Sasuke, but a continuance of Orochimaru's dream: the possession of Sasuke. If Kabuto joins Akatsuki he wants to be assured that no one will stop him from killing Sasuke.

- Madara, of course, refuses. But, Kabuto summons forth another coffin containing...unknown, but the coffin's contents so shock Madara that he immediately agrees that Kabuto can kill Sasuke after the "war" (but he will not let Kabuto interact with Sasuke until the "war is over"...that's a Phil Ochs song, I think).

- Additionally, while Kabuto and Madara talk, they address each other as vessels, specifically hinting that both are not really what they look like...or something to that effect.

- Cut to Anko and her Jounin/ANBU team investigating the dead bodies Kabuto left behind. They explain that they are in an obvious set-up and wonder what trap is in store for them. A Hyuuga on the team uses his Byakugan to 'see' Kabuto and Madara walking into an underground facility. Anko decides to take this info back to Konoha, all the while, wondering if this is Akatsuki's main base, and just why Kabuto would try and show the base to them...

- Cut to Naruto talking about the Kyuubi. The Toad Seal explains just how one is supposed to master the Kyuubi's chakra. You need to take in all the chakra, and then separate the will from the chakra, and then separate the hate from will. The Key will unleash the full chakra into Naruto's system, effectively placing all 9-Tails inside of Naruto. He must then master the will and hate of the Kyuubi or else he will simply become the Kyuubi (as seen during the Pain Invasion)...

- Cut to Kisame observing (by hiding in Samehade) secret military meetings in Kumo. He learns of their full military strength, while Kirabi composes silly rap songs...

[yakumo-chan]

COOL!!!

i wonder what coffin it is....

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by yakumo-chan

COOL!!!

i wonder what coffin it is....

Rikudou sennin? Shodai? Or maybe Madara, through some sort of twist. Those are the only ones I can think of that would force him to change his mind so fast.

[Xellos-_^]

his brother probably

[Emilis]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Rikudou sennin? Shodai? Or maybe Madara, through some sort of twist. Those are the only ones I can think of that would force him to change his mind so fast.

Interesting, Izuna's the only guy I can see Madara having a reaction like that to (considering he barely lifted his one eye brow at all the dead Akatsuki). There's always the group (including me ) who hope that's not really Madara, or at least not Madara's original body. So if not, then yeah, I could see that coffin containing the real Madara. That'd be a good way of revealing that as a plot twist.

Surely it's not something so crazy as Rikudou sennin... but then again the moon's a freakin 10 tailed beast... anythings possible.

I don't think it's Oro, because Madara wouldn't have such a strong reaction to him, but I'm a bit surprised Kabuto didn't bring him up. Maybe his soul isn't retrievable by the technique because it's trapped in that sword.

[AuroraFlash]

There are only two options:

In the coffin, there's either Rikkudou Sennin himself or Madara - the original Madara with two EMS eyes. As everyone here thinks that this weirdo with one eye is Madara, it has to be Rikkudou Sennin. Of course it would be awesome, because that's the only real trump card. Nothing is superior to Rikkudou Sennin himself, who gave birth to Sharingan and the whatever perfect body of the Senju...

Even Pain emphasized that the Sage of the Six Paths' moon was totally superior to his creation. He was the legendary who tamed the Jyuubi. He could make all of Madara's dreams come true.

Originally Posted by Emilis

Interesting, Izuna's the only guy I can see Madara having a reaction like that to (considering he barely lifted his one eye brow at all the dead Akatsuki). There's always the group (including me ) who hope that's not really Madara, or at least not Madara's original body. So if not, then yeah, I could see that coffin containing the real Madara. That'd be a good way of revealing that as a plot twist.

Surely it's not something so crazy as Rikudou sennin... but then again the moon's a freakin 10 tailed beast... anythings possible.

Madara's brother... good idea. He couldn't fight him, could he? The one said to rival his power...

Originally Posted by Photonbeam

Spoiler for Ah:

I am guessing that Kabuto summoned Uchiha Izuna.

SO you got that idea, too. :-)

[Emilis]

So I just read the data book information on Edo Tensei, and I swear this has to be the most broken technique in the series. The only limitation or requirements I could find is first you need a fresh dead body for each summon (who cares when Oro proved you can kill gennins and replace them with Kages), and the amount of chakra you have determines the amount of simultaneous summons you can resurrect. Again who cares. Even if you only had the chakra for one or two of them, if you can kill a kid and turn him into the most powerful ninja in the series who has died. Does anyone know if there are any other factors, because I seriously don't see anything keeping Kabuto from summoning anyone. I mean forget the akatsuki, he could have Rikudou sennin, the first four Kages (oh, maybe the new casket is the 4th!), and Izuna all at once if this is all there is to it.

PS: Maybe this is getting off topic, but I searched for a decent Edo Tensei thread and I couldn't find one.

Back OT: Dead characters that would make Madara wet his pants:

First Hokage
Forth Hokage
Rikudou sennin
possibly Uchiha Izuna
and Zabuza... alright maybe not

[AuroraFlash]

I thought about Jiraiya... wouldn't Jiraiya be the perfect weapon to fight Naruto? Naruto wouldn't be able to fight him. It would expose Naruto's weakness and he could get voulnerable, no matter what power he acquires.

The first people I thought about were Madara, Izuna and Rikudou, but the more I think about it...

Let me say this...
-First Hokage's summoning could only be possible if the Fourth's summoning was also possible... and yes, it was.

I wonder if the Fourth could be summoned as the Third canceled that summoning before. He would be the ultimate weapon against Naruto.... well next to Jiraiya who I mentioned before. I think Naruto is not able to fight one of those.

[Ero-Senn1n]

That can't be Madara if Madara is there, since this is not summoning of a body (wouldn't make sense anyway since the body rot away long ago) but the summon of a soul and temprorarily bind that soul to a body made of a sacrifice.

Sure it seems that Kishimoto pulled out Kabuto's magical super-powerup from his ass since he didn't have anyone for the "evil" side while there are plenty of ninja on the good side. So he was thinking "who the hell could i add to madara's side? wait, there's Kabuto, i almost forgot him ". But it still doesn't impress me, only a very few ninja against the whole world now, also these can't work as a team since they want to kill each other.

[Nite-Wing]

sasuke is to become canon fodder after the war....what a suprise
which basically means hes not that important to madara's overall plan atleast once its done.
Kabuto reaffirms that he wants sasuke dead even though Oro isn't really dead hes just been sealed away.
Madara does actually care about someone after all,his dead brother maybe??

[Akachou]

Just in case this guy who says "My power. Uchiha Madara's power" and people say "You go by Madara these days"... just in case this guy was not Madara, summoning Madara would make him a liar. He wouldn't seem immortal anymore. He wouldn't be overestimated. If he was not Madara, only a summoned Madara could be the ultimate proof and he wouldn't want anyone to see that, I guess.

I still wonder what that so-called Madara did to the henchmen of Danzou... because they clearly appear on page 2-3 of chapter 489.

[Sasheks]

About Kabuto summoning ...Madara? He is already there and we were talking about summoning souls, right? His soul is there if he could summon his body /which should also be there in front of him assuming this is the real Madara/, then everything's cool.

And does anyone know what is the "reach" of the Edo Tensei summoning. Meaning: you can summon a soul... but where can you summon it from. Can you call it from anywhere? Meaning: can you summon the soul even if it is trapped in an endless fight with /with the HANDS of Oro ha-ha/ some other souls. You may be able to call it. Unless the Shinigami is a douche and will not give it back, it's a possibility.

[Akachou]

Originally Posted by Sasheks

About Kabuto summoning ...Madara? He is already there and we were talking about summoning souls, right? His soul is there if he could summon his body /which should also be there in front of him assuming this is the real Madara/, then everything's cool.

And does anyone know what is the "reach" of the Edo Tensei summoning. Meaning: you can summon a soul... but where can you summon it from. Can you call it from anywhere? Meaning: can you summon the soul even if it is trapped in an endless fight with /with the HANDS of Oro ha-ha/ some other souls. You may be able to call it. Unless the Shinigami is a douche and will not give it back, it's a possibility.

I think the answer is yes.
The 4th Hokage has been summoned by Orochimaru before. The 3rd Hokage aborted that, but the fact is that the 4th Hokage had used Shkiki Fuujin before he died, so his soul was contained in the dimension of the Death God in an endless fight with the Kyuubi.

[Sasheks]

Originally Posted by Akachou

I think the answer is yes.
The 4th Hokage has been summoned by Orochimaru before. The 3rd Hokage aborted that, but the fact is that the 4th Hokage had used Shkiki Fuujin before he died, so his soul was contained in the dimension of the Death God in an endless fight with the Kyuubi.

That's my point. Anyone else?

I support the idea of the summoning being either Madara's brother /yes, i think that is Madara right there.../ or the sage of 6 paths.

[Emilis]

Originally Posted by Akachou

Just in case this guy who says "My power. Uchiha Madara's power" and people say "You go by Madara these days"... just in case this guy was not Madara, summoning Madara would make him a liar. He wouldn't seem immortal anymore. He wouldn't be overestimated. If he was not Madara, only a summoned Madara could be the ultimate proof and he wouldn't want anyone to see that, I guess.

Yep, I've been noticing a lot of these not-to-subtle hints lately that he's not really Madara. Even Kakashi saying in the last manga that there is no proof he's Madara, but he believes he is just because of what his plans are. I don't know why a character would make distinctions like that unless the author simply wants to drop hints.... or is a super troll... dang you Kishi

[Photonbeam]

Originally Posted by Photonbeam

Spoiler for Ah:

I am guessing that Kabuto summoned Uchiha Izuna.

My guess still stands.

Will Kabuto do the same thing Orochimaru did and take over Sasuke's body?

[SuigetsuKun]

Originally Posted by Photonbeam

My guess still stands.

Will Kabuto do the same thing Orochimaru did and take over Sasuke's body?

I think he wants to do that because it was Orochimaru's highest goal and thus it might be the ideal way for a being like Kabuto to evolve.

[Gin]

Where's all the Kabuto just Edo Tensei'd Obito theories at?

[John D.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't First, Second, Third and Fourth Hokage souls sealed away and therefor off limit for Edo Tensei?

When Kobuto already had summoned powerful men like Pain and Itachi it's hard to imagine someone who would excite Madara to that effect...The only one I can think of that would make a difference is Rikudō Sennin.

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

I thought about Jiraiya... wouldn't Jiraiya be the perfect weapon to fight Naruto? Naruto wouldn't be able to fight him. It would expose Naruto's weakness and he could get voulnerable, no matter what power he acquires.

Madara is waging war against plenty more than just Naruto and I can't imagine Madara reacting like he did just for the prospect of a good weapon against Naruto.

Originally Posted by Emilis

So I just read the data book information on Edo Tensei, and I swear this has to be the most broken technique in the series.

I agree, it such a god awful powerful technique that all shinobis should be out to learn it...Though, of course, it's very likely extremely hard to learn, else why wouldn't more "evil" (and good guys as well, since it was Nidaime (who was a good guy, wasn't he) who created the technique in the first place) shinobis be able to perform it.

[Photonbeam]

Originally Posted by SuigetsuKun

I think he wants to do that because it was Orochimaru's highest goal and thus it might be the ideal way for a being like Kabuto to evolve.

That's plausible but if he wanted a sharingan, he should have asked Madara for a pair with Mangekyou Sharigan already activated.