Steins;Gate - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by xellos2099

Maybe because in the beta timeline, John Tilter appear in Us web for a while, and as far as I know, Kurisu live in US at that time and thus her interest in time travel.

I was under the impression in this episode that the only reason Kurisu threw together something for the time machine was because her father contacted her and she wanted to impress him, or something.

[blakstealth]

Omfg wow. Awesome episode. Also love the use of the VN's OP at the end.

[dark998]

10/10 episode, that's all. Quite liked Hacking to the Gate ver.2 and Sky-Clad Observer.

[Morisato]

Hmm, this show is just one giant time paradox.

So Okabe went back in time to prevent Kurisu from dying but was the one who killed her in the first place? And the future Okabe experienced everything the current Okabe did (witnessing Kurisu's corpse, saving Mayuri repeatedly, trying to save Kurisu again) but decided to wait 15 years and build a real time machine. That means time traveling is part of his life in all world lines?

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Morisato

Hmm, this show is just one giant time paradox.

So Okabe went back in time to prevent Kurisu from dying but was the one who killed her in the first place?

Kind of. In the line that Okabe's currently in, it is difficult/impossible to prevent Kurisu's death, like Mayuri's was. If her father doesn't kill her, Okabe does. If he doesn't, someone else does and so on (like even the little girl downstairs accidentally killing Mayuri at the proper time). So clearly in some attempts, Okabe would be the primary impetus. This concept is referred to in-universe as the Attractor Field.

Originally Posted by Morisato

And the future Okabe experienced everything the current Okabe did (witnessing Kurisu's corpse, saving Mayuri repeatedly, trying to save Kurisu again) but decided to wait 15 years and build a real time machine. That means time traveling is part of his life in all world lines?

Not necessarily; the Okabe we saw in the video is the one with our Okabe's exact reference frame. It's himself, fifteen years down the line. Like if there was a fifteen year timeskip.

That doesn't mean that other Okabes have or haven't done similar things, though. Only that future Okabe in the video isn't evidence of it.

And waiting 15 years to create a time machine means that SERN doesn't take over, and instead WWIII happens. And this time the time machine is 'Perfect'. In other words, it can take multiple physical bodies back and forth through time. Even with the experimental knowledge Okabe has at this moment (at the narrative present moment), he wouldn't be able to create a time machine that good.

And what paradox do you see? So far, though the concept of multiple timelines, the only odd thing is Okabe's Reading Steiner.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

And what paradox do you see? So far, though the concept of multiple timelines, the only odd thing is Okabe's Reading Steiner.

There is clearly a paradox here through.

Okabe see Kurisu died > send the text msg > Okabe jump to Alpha world and meet her > jump back to Beta world line and want to save Kurisu > killed her (due to Attractor Field) > create a time machine to fake Kurisu's death > Okabe see Kurisu died

So what is the original cause in this infinite loops? In another word, the paradoxes in Stein;gates only can be explained if every time they "time travel", they jump to a completely different parallel world/ world line. Because then it's no longer time traveling and won't cause any time paradox

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

In another word, the paradoxes in Stein;gates only can be explained if every time they "time travel", they jump to a completely different parallel world/ world line. Because then it's no longer time traveling and won't cause any time paradox

Yep. It's established that small changes jump world lines, and game-breaking changes jump world trunks (like alpha -> beta). He's looking for a way to jump from beta to gamma, or as he calls it, Steins Gate. And his best theory is to create a quasi-stable time loop on the following guess:

The important thing to this world-trunk is not that Kurisu dies, it's that Okabe thinks she's dead, and sends a cell-phone message to that effect while the Phone Microwave is on.

Through that, he figures he can jump the world-trunk by making her survive and fulfill the condition above.

So, by your definition, there isn't any time traveling in this series at all. They're jumping to different times in different worlds... which I'd call time traveling.

[Morisato]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

Yep. It's established that small changes jump world lines, and game-breaking changes jump world trunks (like alpha -> beta). He's looking for a way to jump from beta to gamma, or as he calls it, Steins Gate. And his best theory is to create a quasi-stable time loop on the following guess:

The important thing to this world-trunk is not that Kurisu dies, it's that Okabe thinks she's dead, and sends a cell-phone message to that effect while the Phone Microwave is on.

Through that, he figures he can jump the world-trunk by making her survive and fulfill the condition above.

So, by your definition, there isn't any time traveling in this series at all. They're jumping to different times in different worlds... which I'd call time traveling.

Yea but then THAT okabe will jump to alpha line and mess around with D-Mail until Mayuri dies, reverses them, realizes that Kurisu will die, and tries to save her by faking her death and we're back to square one. This loop doesn't end.

So he saves this Kurisu by faking her death... then does that meant when he travels forward in time a month later, Kurisu will be alive? But she won't retain her memories of the other world lines.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Morisato

So he saves this Kurisu by faking her death... then does that meant when he travels forward in time a month later, Kurisu will be alive? But she won't retain her memories of the other world lines.

It's debatable exactly on whether or not Kurisu remembers her world line experiences, since she confessed in episode 22 that she has hazy memories at best that she remembers everything she's been through, and there seemed to be a few small hints in episode 23 that she at least recognized Okabe to some extent.

[soulshunters]

Physical Time Travelling doesnt change world line only d-mail do...

this steins gate was destined to true end route since at first ep there is the d-video from the future okabe which mean the whole okabe going to alpha and beta line are destined to happen at the start.
future okabe d-video received>Okabe see Kurisu died > send the text msg > Okabe jump to Alpha world and meet her > jump back to Beta world line and want to save Kurisu > killed her (due to Attractor Field) >the future okabe send d-video + create a time machine to fake Kurisu's death > Okabe see Kurisu died

basiclly think of the show steins gate as to what happen when future okabe send d-video and when present okabe using that d-video+future suzu to make sure present okabe do it right and change world line to steins gate

not really spoiler but...
my question is how can they switch out metal opa when the past okabe observed, so shouldnt the attractor field force it to be metal opa no matter what?( even though i know how it ends it just doesnt make sense to me...) or does attractor field only attract human life and not object...

[Eater of All]

Originally Posted by Morisato

Yea but then THAT okabe will jump to alpha line and mess around with D-Mail until Mayuri dies, reverses them, realizes that Kurisu will die, and tries to save her by faking her death and we're back to square one. This loop doesn't end.

So he saves this Kurisu by faking her death... then does that meant when he travels forward in time a month later, Kurisu will be alive? But she won't retain her memories of the other world lines.

So I simply think of it as one big timeline where changing world lines is no different from changing rooms. That time loop of future Okarin causing everything to start is a classic example of a stable time loop where there is no "beginning". There's no need to ask when it all "began"; the timeline is assumed to have been constructed fully from the start.

Though the problem with this is, if present Okarin successfully moves to a Steins;Gate worldline, that would mean there can be no 33-year-old Okarins that will kickstart all of this again. It's like a gap in the middle of the timeline.

[risingstar3110]

If all these world line is independent, and when Okarin "time travel", he simply just shift a copy of himself to another world, then this would only means two things:

• There are plenty of world line, Okarin just disappeared when he put on the headset.
• There are plenty of world line when Okarin will put up a dumb-fold faces when he put on the headset, because he can't understand why he couldn't time travel. Even when his memories showed that he did

In another word, among those hundreds worlds, or let's just call it "fragments" (but don't state out where it referenced because it will spoil others), there are just few when Okarin reached the happy ending of "Stein Gates"

[Kaioshin Sama]

What a stretch of episodes these past 3 have been. I slightly prefer episode 22 out of all of them for it's impossible choice scenario and impeccable romantic drama of the kind I rarely get to see done to my satisfaction, but not by much.

For a penultimate episode this indeed does it's job quite well. Providing answers to long asked questions from the beginning of the series, and providing a possible solution to the dilemma of finding the perfect timeline where all the characters survive and there's no WWIII. Not much else to add, looking forward to the ending and will be sad to say goodbye to such good characters.

[Marina2]

Originally Posted by soulshunters

not really spoiler but...
my question is how can they switch out metal opa when the past okabe observed, so shouldnt the attractor field force it to be metal opa no matter what?( even though i know how it ends it just doesnt make sense to me...) or does attractor field only attract human life and not object...

Don't forget that, according to Mayuri, Metal oppa is a rare item among normal oppa. What Okabe really need to do is to get [U]Metal oppa before his past self and let his past self and Mayuri get normal one that doesn't made with metal. (Yes, normal oppa is non-metallic object - not sure if anime version ever told that)

Attractor field force that 'someone' will get oppa ,but it doesn't mean it has to be a metal one. if Dr. Naka... has normal oppa with him, it won't trigger the security system.

[Xcomp]

Ooo, what an exciting cliff hangar! And well blended into the original game's opening theme! Now we all just wait for the plan to flow into action.

But again, I'd like to see the other drama CD animated too though.

Spoiler for Drama CD:

Mayuri doesn't slap Okarin and encourage him to try again because she couldn't bear to see him suffering. Suzuha doesn't give up and decides to wait, hoping he will change his mind. A year passes by where Okarin leads a normal student life again but he remains traumatised. Mayuri regrets not encouraging him and ends up traveling back in time with Suzuha to maker herself do so.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Marina2

(Yes, normal oppa is non-metallic object - not sure if anime version ever told that)

I sort of figured that was the case, since Mayuri made such a big deal out of the metal Oppa being rare and hard to find.

[ZGMF-X10A]

anyone know what the song in the ED is for this episode? I can't find it in the ED cd of Steins;gate

[jeroz]

it's the xbox game opening. quite easy to find the full version on the internet :P

[ZGMF-X10A]

Originally Posted by jeroz

it's the xbox game opening. quite easy to find the full version on the internet :P

thx, found it

[Alucard24]

Lots of answers in this ep !

I wondered why Kurisu didn't say anything about who stabbed her last ep .... that's because she didn't want to burden him.

And the reason because Okabe 2015 could not come with Suzuha is because it was needed that Okabe august 2010 kill Kurisu to awaken this pain.

I loved how Suzuha look at Okabe at the end of the ep xD

But why could he see the video after failing and not before ??