Sword Art Online - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Valky]

Feels quite rushed.

[cut]

[-Sho-]

Hmmm to sum up.
It was rushed , cliché and the whole setting was forced like for example the guy who QQ for Diabel's death....
The food part , really...
Kiri x Asuna combo action was quite good but that's it.
I don't see anything better yet.

[Klashikari]

As a anime only watcher, I can't say I fully enjoyed this episode, as it had glaring issues all around, moreso as a second episode.

Really, this episode lacked quite a lot in term of character development and whatnot: the interactions between Kirito and Asuna were not enought to warrant such "trust" during the boss fight and post boss sequence.
Likewise, Diabel death was sort of an oxymoron: even without LN knowledge, it was obvious they hinted something "wrong" with Diabel's objective, with few grins and expressions. Yet, we were served with a reckless charge and a "tragic death", which hardly mattered, due to his characterization.
Kirito's sense of responsibility was almost shoehorned, as Kirito hardly has shown such dejection of himself regarding his solo play until that beta tester issue emerged. And frankly, the whole point about Beta tester was ludicrous at best: this episode is one of many examples that beta test doesn't mean anything. The obvious reason is of course the fact the released game might be quite different from the beta, which can actually turn a boss into something hardcore or a pushover, or break or make a class of the game. Having the hang of the mechanics and all is one thing, expecting an easier game with beta testing is a bit silly, even moreso when such information can be found in bulletin boards and all.

Things went even more downhill when things are brushed quite quickly in contrast of a game, moreso being on an anime medium instead of LN: very little was actually explained regarding tactics and mechanics (blabbing switch left and right without explaining was weird... what was it? Considering the emphasis, I doubt it is simply being a mere "baton passing", so I assume it is basically passing the "aggro" of the boss to your party member, but there wasn't any explanation or/and visual clue about that).
And I agree as a RPG and MMORPG player that the boss felt more or less like a mid boss instead of a real boss. Of course, the game is much less forgiving since there isn't any magic, and thus healing abilities. But seriously, for a boss requiring a raid, it was quite straightforward, and having a single attack pattern change doesn't mean anything in the equation.

And finally, the animation budget was almost awful for an action based series: way too many still shots and cheap tricks such like accelerating lines being abused to feign actual speed. Notice you rarely even see Asuna and Kirito against the boss in the same shot in movements.

The issues with this episode made me curious about the actual content, but that also reminds me that I might see this series in an even less positive light should I read the LN.

While Episode 1 was a tad slow, it was very good into establishing the premise and setup. But episode 2? It was rather mundane and way too rushed for what it was supposed to present.

[zeniselv]

kirito and asunas bonding can be pretty much resumed in how well kirito treated asuna, their trust in the fight was pretty much all they could do in such situation, its usually how things go on an MMO where all you can do is play your part well and expect the others to do theirs, the lack of explaination of the setting really was an issue, but i think we will get that later, maybe changing the focus to another character for a while, or kirito helping another noob, we have to realize nowadays omitting parts of the story and putting them on the DVD/BD is becoming a fad, the death of diabel had a fair impact, he migth not had been the strongest, but he was the leader, and losing him would have been a huge blown on their morale and confidence, animation truly wasnt at the levels of other A-1 productions, yet by any means its bad, it migth be what i feared for A-1 having so many projects at the same time, but its hardly at the levels of bones and jc staff.

[Klashikari]

^ You can't compare it to a real MMO, since their lives are at stake, which was at least covered properly in ep1 and 2.
That's the very reason why their mutual trust was a bit unnatural, even if they were friends prio SAO (and that point was clear to them only during and after the fight).

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As a anime only watcher, I can't say I fully enjoyed this episode, as it had glaring issues all around, moreso as a second episode.

Really, this episode lacked quite a lot in term of character development and whatnot: the interactions between Kirito and Asuna were not enought to warrant such "trust" during the boss fight and post boss sequence.

In the novel, the boss fight was longer, so they'd had longer to observe each other.

Besides - something that wasn't explained in the anime - they were desperate. If they didn't win that fight, if they fled, they'd never get the nerve to try again. (And by that I mean the players as a whole. Most hadn't even worked up the courage to leave the city.)

Likewise, Diabel death was sort of an oxymoron: even without LN knowledge, it was obvious they hinted something "wrong" with Diabel's objective, with few grins and expressions. Yet, we were served with a reckless charge and a "tragic death", which hardly mattered, due to his characterization.
Kirito's sense of responsibility was almost shoehorned, as Kirito hardly has shown such dejection of himself regarding his solo play until that beta tester issue emerged.

He did feel guilty about abandoning Klein. He may not feel responsible to all the players, but Klein was his first friend in SAO, and since he's no good at making friends, it mattered a lot. That's been eating at him.

And frankly, the whole point about Beta tester was ludicrous at best: this episode is one of many examples that beta test doesn't mean anything. The obvious reason is of course the fact the released game might be quite different from the beta, which can actually turn a boss into something hardcore or a pushover, or break or make a class of the game. Having the hang of the mechanics and all is one thing, expecting an easier game with beta testing is a bit silly, even moreso when such information can be found in bulletin boards and all.

Things went even more downhill when things are brushed quite quickly in contrast of a game, moreso being on an anime medium instead of LN: very little was actually explained regarding tactics and mechanics (blabbing switch left and right without explaining was weird... what was it? Considering the emphasis, I doubt it is simply being a mere "baton passing", so I assume it is basically passing the "aggro" of the boss to your party member, but there wasn't any explanation or/and visual clue about that).

Yeah. It's when you stagger a monster to disengage and your partner jumps in. It allows you to recover your concentration and wait out the cooldown period of a Sword Skill, if you used one.

And I agree as a RPG and MMORPG player that the boss felt more or less like a mid boss instead of a real boss. Of course, the game is much less forgiving since there isn't any magic, and thus healing abilities.

There are potions. They're just slow-acting.

But seriously, for a boss requiring a raid, it was quite straightforward, and having a single attack pattern change doesn't mean anything in the equation.

Yeah, it was supposed to be more complicated.

[zeniselv]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You can't compare it to a real MMO, since their lives are at stake, which was at least covered properly in ep1 and 2.
That's the very reason why their mutual trust was a bit unnatural, even if they were friends prio SAO (and that point was clear to them only during and after the fight).

my only problem is that since there was a time skip and nothing was told we cannot know if this was the first boss raid or if there was a reason for kirito to join this one, but from the little we can know kirito care for other people and seem to want to have friends, and we were shown that leaving klein affected him, he probably wanted to help these people, and since asuna was the only party member she could find, he could only leave the raid, or trust her and fight, for asuna she pretty much said she wanted to do something, she would prefer to die in a figth than to stay put waiting, so what else she could so, either partner and trust kirito or go alone.

[aigomorla]

wow i see im not the only one who was not happy with episode2.

Spoiler for comparison to the novels:

Where is the real cream scene with asuna? Infact where is the cream?? thats butter... in the book it said it was a BIG pile of cream...
Kirito was wayyyyy more cocky when he approached her.
Where's the comments in Asuna's mind and the real reason why she let him sit next to him.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REAL KIRITO + ASUNA MEETING AT THE DUNGEON.

Where is RAT?
Where is the INN scene with Asuna where she adds one more reason to clear floors being so she can have a luxury apartment in the higher floors with a full BATH. <-- and no im not kidding


:\

*sigh*

Oh well at least we get an anime...
But lately im not too happy at how they are changing the light novels so much where one could say it would almost be alternate timeline.

BTW next episode, be prepared to cry.... :P
Rudolph the Red Nose is a very sweet chapter..

[kyp275]

Spoiler for comparison to the novels; reply to aigomorla:

Originally Posted by aigomorla

Where's the comments in Asuna's mind and the real reason why she let him sit next to him.

An inner monologue for a new character in episode 2 of a show about her feelings? really?

Originally Posted by aigomorla

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REAL KIRITO + ASUNA MEETING AT THE DUNGEON WHERE HE SAVES HER.

Where it belongs, as it's completely immaterial to the core story.

Originally Posted by aigomorla

Where is RAT?
Where is the INN scene with Asuna where she adds one more reason to clear floors being so she can have a luxury apartment in the higher floors with a full BATH.
^ not joking.

:\

*sigh*

Oh well at least we get an anime...
But lately im not too happy at how they are changing the light novels so much where one could say it would almost be alternate timeline.

Read above.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by aigomorla

Oh well at least we get an anime...
But lately im not too happy at how they are changing the light novels so much where one could say it would almost be alternate timeline.

Alternative timeline..? Nothing of the sort. It's still the same story, with the same (important) characters.

Changing the novels? No, not really. What they're doing is removing material, not changing it. This is an adaptation, not a translation; some material will get cut. I thought they did a good enough job, and while I am happy with the pacing, I know it could've been better.

Anyway, after re-watching the episode for the second time with friends, I've come to love the sound sword skills make while charging up.

[HandofFate]

Rather than the LN reader that reads the novel first, then watches the anime so I can nitpick every small detail with the others.

I'm the one that watches the anime first, then reads the corresponding chapters in the LN.

And I thought the way they handled it was pretty clever. Sure a lot of stuff was cut, but they way they rearranged a few things to make it more presentable as a visual format so it can stand on its own was amusing.

[maelstormCaT]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Rather than the LN reader that reads the novel first, then watches the anime so I can nitpick every small detail with the others.

I'm the one that watches the anime first, then reads the corresponding chapters in the LN.

And I thought the way they handled it was pretty clever. Sure a lot of stuff was cut, but they way they rearranged a few things to make it more presentable as a visual format so it can stand on its own was amusing.

I agree with that. This ep can be so much worse.

[Randrak42]

Well it managed to keep my attention for the duration of the episode. That's a plus in my book since it doesn't happen often and with just any anime xD

[LKK]

I gave the episode 2 one point less than I gave episode 1. Why? I missed the gorgeous scenery porn from episode 1. Other than that, I felt episode 2 held up to episode 1. As an anime only viewer reading what the novel readers said was missing from the adaptation, I have to say that I still feel I got the most important parts of the story from what the anime showed me. Yes, more elaboration would have been nicer but not essential to my understanding. As for the stills in the fight scene, I guess I've become so accustomed to them that I don't notice them any more. I thought the fight scene was exciting. In short, my only complaint about episode 2 was what I said at the beginning. Not enough scenery porn.

[Eater of All]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Spoiler for space:

As a anime only watcher, I can't say I fully enjoyed this episode, as it had glaring issues all around, moreso as a second episode.

Really, this episode lacked quite a lot in term of character development and whatnot: the interactions between Kirito and Asuna were not enought to warrant such "trust" during the boss fight and post boss sequence.
Likewise, Diabel death was sort of an oxymoron: even without LN knowledge, it was obvious they hinted something "wrong" with Diabel's objective, with few grins and expressions. Yet, we were served with a reckless charge and a "tragic death", which hardly mattered, due to his characterization.
Kirito's sense of responsibility was almost shoehorned, as Kirito hardly has shown such dejection of himself regarding his solo play until that beta tester issue emerged. And frankly, the whole point about Beta tester was ludicrous at best: this episode is one of many examples that beta test doesn't mean anything. The obvious reason is of course the fact the released game might be quite different from the beta, which can actually turn a boss into something hardcore or a pushover, or break or make a class of the game. Having the hang of the mechanics and all is one thing, expecting an easier game with beta testing is a bit silly, even moreso when such information can be found in bulletin boards and all.

Things went even more downhill when things are brushed quite quickly in contrast of a game, moreso being on an anime medium instead of LN: very little was actually explained regarding tactics and mechanics (blabbing switch left and right without explaining was weird... what was it? Considering the emphasis, I doubt it is simply being a mere "baton passing", so I assume it is basically passing the "aggro" of the boss to your party member, but there wasn't any explanation or/and visual clue about that).
And I agree as a RPG and MMORPG player that the boss felt more or less like a mid boss instead of a real boss. Of course, the game is much less forgiving since there isn't any magic, and thus healing abilities. But seriously, for a boss requiring a raid, it was quite straightforward, and having a single attack pattern change doesn't mean anything in the equation.

And finally, the animation budget was almost awful for an action based series: way too many still shots and cheap tricks such like accelerating lines being abused to feign actual speed. Notice you rarely even see Asuna and Kirito against the boss in the same shot in movements.

The issues with this episode made me curious about the actual content, but that also reminds me that I might see this series in an even less positive light should I read the LN.

While Episode 1 was a tad slow, it was very good into establishing the premise and setup. But episode 2? It was rather mundane and way too rushed for what it was supposed to present.

Being a beta tester does have its advantages though. You say that the Kobold fight seems straightforward, but that's only because of Diabel's experience in leading a raid. And if Kirito didn't know about the new attack pattern, the boss could've probably KO'd several more guys, maybe even wipe out the entire group.

No I don't agree with Kibaou's belief that the beta advantage is unfair or cheating. I do think it's still a great advantage though.

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Rather than the LN reader that reads the novel first, then watches the anime so I can nitpick every small detail with the others.

I'm the one that watches the anime first, then reads the corresponding chapters in the LN.

If enough people do that, would the LN start to get nitpicked instead?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by zeniselv

my only problem is that since there was a time skip and nothing was told we cannot know if this was the first boss raid or if there was a reason for kirito to join this one, but from the little we can know kirito care for other people and seem to want to have friends, and we were shown that leaving klein affected him, he probably wanted to help these people, and since asuna was the only party member she could find, he could only leave the raid, or trust her and fight, for asuna she pretty much said she wanted to do something, she would prefer to die in a figth than to stay put waiting, so what else she could so, either partner and trust kirito or go alone.

It is heavily implied it is indeed the first boss raid, as Kirito mention he didn't find the boss room yet, so I doubt there was anything close to that boss so far.

Originally Posted by Eater of All

Being a beta tester does have its advantages though. You say that the Kobold fight seems straightforward, but that's only because of Diabel's experience in leading a raid. And if Kirito didn't know about the new attack pattern, the boss could've probably KO'd several more guys, maybe even wipe out the entire group.

No I don't agree with Kibaou's belief that the beta advantage is unfair or cheating. I do think it's still a great advantage though.

Of course it isn't void of advantages, but Kibaou statement was quite ludicrous imho, considering how things went, and he was quick to forget the source of the established information from the guidebook.

In any online game, you should never expect things to remain as they were initially discovered, even moreso in MMORPG case which can be dramatically altered from beta, or even after its release, due to patch and event.
Heck, even without Kirito's comment, the boss weapon was clearly not a talwart, although I wonder if animators have a real idea of what's a nodachi to begin with.

But as you said, the whole "cheater" point is stupid as hell. In fact, this kind of information should probably be avaiable to anyone having a brain and checking bulletin board or anything reporting info from a beta (considering SAO fame in the setup, you would definitely expect players raving about the exposed content from the beta etc).

[Adigard]

LN reader here... I actually enjoyed the ep.

Spoiler for comparison to the novels:

I think my only real nitpicks

A) Not detailing Asuna holing up in the starter city with everyone else before finally deciding she really needed to play the game to win. Rather than just sitting on her haunches with the other 7950 some'odd players who aren't on the front lines. It's an important character bit, and could potentially been better detailed. It was lightly touched upon, and someone really paying attention could possibly pick it up by reading between the lines... but I think it bears mentioning since it's a shown in the OP. Could be added later, when Asuna returns to the storyline, as a flashback. It's important, IMO, because she's an absolute MMO noob who's never played anything tougher than a casual game, and yet she's managed to survive and even thrive despite her very strong limits (only knowing one attack, having no idea how to solo switch).

B) By tightening the storyline so tight, and removing so many stray details we don't know why Diabel decided to suicide, rather than taking the healing potion. LN reader's of course know that he's not as 'good' of a person as he sounds, and again... reading between the lines it should be apparent something is up.

C) PK? If there is no PK'ing, the noob vs. beta-tester debate is a little silly and pointless.

A and B could be apparent to people really paying attention, but by skipping First Day we miss some important background details on PK'ing which would explain why Kirito was so worried about a battle between noobs and betas.

As for the advantage beta testers have? Considering how difficult Kline found the first mob he fought in the field... imagine how poorly most fights went for new players in the starter fields? The death rates would have been horrendous as the first few non-beta brave souls took to the fields.

[kyp275]

@ Klashikari

Yea, but just look at your typical MMO player base, and all of a sudden Kibaou's idiocy makes much more sense

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by kyp275

@ Klashikari

Yea, but just look at your typical MMO player base, and all of a sudden Kibaou's idiocy makes much more sense

...indeed, when I think about people not realizing their idiocy of DPSing with high aggro moves (despite some MMO -DO- now state it has high aggro, like in wow), then being crushed like ants without understanding why and blaming the tank for that; I surely get why some players can be really stupid in such games, even when every kind of information are at their disposal...

[AmeNoJaku]

IMHO better than episode one, since something happened to move the plot forward, unfortunately not in the best way possible. At least players are depicted as immature kids with an attitude and even bigger priority problems, as they usually are in this kind of games IRL.