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demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 10:04

The system would render the user invisible to all forms of photo-dependent scanning as well as radar and radiowave scans. Instead of making a blackhole where something should be there, there is only a slight ripple and nothing more. Since light is bent, they are also invisible to the naked eye.

Sounds and environmental interaction still give them away as you said. But the greatest shortcoming of the system was that it was supposed to be useable by standard soldiers. So it runs on a hybrid system of solar capacitors and active solar energy. However since the active stealth bends away light energy, it can't charge and be active at the same time so it has a battery life of 2-10 minutes before recharge is required.(possibly even hours because it only generates wave disrupting energies)

The energy weakness can be overcome by carrying a larger energy source but that would be too cumbersome and impractical.

StratoSpear · 2012-05-23, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

@ Stratos
Nanites is used in ST as brainwashing tool.

Also, shield mode don't do jack against solid weapon in canon. (my version DID, but then again it's fanon thing)

Exactly.

For Athena, shield mode holds out against solid weapons as long as the bullet/missile don't hit the shield at insane speeds.

Railcannons, autocannons or continuous fire from a solid repeater will penetrate it like swiss cheese.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 10:10

As I said before, slight ripple is just that, to I.S., they're visible.

The only reason Ichika can't evade Rin's attack is not because he couldn't see it, it took quite a time to detect and process the information.

OTOH, using focused scanning you'll find the hiding mole somehow, though from tactical POV, this'll work at least for 2-3 second. Longer if you're actually hiding behind something.

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 10:16

@zero: That works well enough then. Doesn't have to be perfect.

For some reason, I'm just very obssessed about using a bullet that forces the IS to expend more energy than it should. Specially ionized bullet? ceramic piezoelectric load inside a magnetic jacket? Whole magnetic bullet?

@stratos: A shield mode can withstand those kinds of weapons. However that shield mode just won't be moving much or at all

StratoSpear · 2012-05-23, 10:18

One more scene:

Spoiler for Scene~!:

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 10:25

@ Demi
I think Stratos' "Mach Magnus" do that. It' was designed to penetrate absolute defense, but fail to do it job and tend to shatter when made contact, however still a potent weapon considering that means it can penetrate normal energy barrier with ease. (Correct me if I wrong)

No, nope. In canon, shield mode by default only provides focused, less energy-eating "Reiryaku Byakuya", which mean it's not going to do shit on solid weapon (bullet, missile, solid sword, all the same) but work miraculously well on energy weapon, and unlike normal RB, it doesn't need 'full syncro' and can be used on a whim.

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 10:31

The design of the mach magnus comet rounds seems way too high cost for the specifications I want it to have. The sophisticated micro circuits and CPU's in-charge of handling the smart systems of detecting the target and engaging its own shield are also very difficult to reproduce without the backing of an extremely powerful organization, or a sufficiently technological supplier.

What I require is a simpler solution. It doesn't have to one-shot the IS or even make them feel they are in imminent danger. However, it will make them regret the fact that they thought they would win in a battle of attrition.

There's a shield mode in canon?

StratoSpear · 2012-05-23, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeroXSEED

@ Demi
I think Stratos' "Mach Magnus" do that. It' was designed to penetrate absolute defense, but fail to do it job and tend to shatter when made contact, however still a potent weapon considering that means it can penetrate normal energy barrier with ease. (Correct me if I wrong)

That's correct.

The Mach Magnus' rounds deploy a barrier around the bullet which serves as a "sacrificial shell", equalizing against the IS' energy barrier so that the real bullet can pass through.

The chances of the Magnus' rounds penetrating Absolute defense increases if the weapon is fired at a closer range. (Another reason why Inami only fires the weapon when he's within melee range.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

The design of the mach magnus comet rounds seems way too high cost for the specifications I want it to have. The sophisticated micro circuits and CPU's in-charge of handling the smart systems of detecting the target and engaging its own shield are also very difficult to reproduce without the backing of an extremely powerful organization, or a sufficiently technological supplier.

What I require is a simpler solution. It doesn't have to one-shot the IS or even make them feel they are in imminent danger. However, it will make them regret the fact that they thought they would win in a battle of attrition.

There's a shield mode in canon?

The high cost is the reason why the Magnus is the only weapon of its kind. Praxidike could only produce so much Comet rounds for one unit, the Minerva(Notice how the Minerva Pallas doesn't have any Comet-type weaponry). Coupled with the fact that the Magnus has a small clip, it's one of those "Make every shot count" kind of weapon.

And yes, I'm pretty sure there is a shield mode for the Setsura in canon.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 10:42

Setsura Shield mode to be exact, it has three mode: shield, cannon, and claw.

I think there's one or two 'relatively cheap' rounds designed for anti I.S. operation early in the thread, let me search it for a while.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 10:45

MEISTER Rifle use this cartridge, currently unnamed design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

And here is the schematic of the anti-IS round without the cartridge :

1. Polymer housing.
2. Superconducting solenoid coil with leads connected to 3.
3. Thin ceramic casing.
4. Film of high explosive.
5. Tungsten penetrator.
6. Secondary charge to fire 5.

When the bullet connects with the electric shield of another IS, it juices up the solenoid (2), which fires off the high explosive (4) and discharges a small but intense EM shockwave that puts a hole in the shield where the bullet hit. The remaining electric charge travels down to the secondary charge (6) and fires off the penetrator (5), hitting the base armor of the IS.

I am at a loss of whether to include a cartridge or not for the round....with an EM accelerator it doesn't seem to need one.

There's also HELIX

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Added the rifle grenade. Screw it, without a drawing pad or scanner I can't draw out the schematics properly. It is named HELIX after its payload.

1. HELIX (High Energy Liquefied Ion eXplosive) Warhead with nanite detonator
2. Stabilising Fins
3. Primary Charge
4. Gyroscope/Navigation Computer
5. Solid fuel and aviation motor chamber
6. Firing fuze for motor
7. Camera/Target designation receiver/Contact fuze

When the grenade is fired, it is guided to its target. When it hits the shields or the target, it automatically triggers the primary charge which sprays the liquid ion explosive onto the shield, and being electrically charged, it sticks to the shield by electrical polarity. It is then fired by a nanite detonator in the warhead, resulting in a conventional blast wave that overloads the shields due to immense kinetic force and knocks the pilot backwards.

Helix Design will be used in TLR Stratos, though at larger scale. It's deployment scream "Fuck you" non verbally.

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 10:50

So you guys meant setsura shield mode... I thought we were talking about IS with shield modes in general

As for the bullet designs. I don't really approve of multi-stage ammunitions. Increases the chances of misfire and failure. The first bullet design is more technical about it and uses lower tech but it's still not quite as cost effective as one might imagine. The HELIX however, makes sense.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 10:54

The HELIX design in particular is hilarious because the stronger enemy barrier is, the better. It's like a thermobaric weapon, but with shield energy instead of oxygen. Also, it's usage is more common to RPG-7 than anything else.

When two of them missed the target, it BAKED a quarter of Arena's wall. (Since I.S. coliseum are barrier-sealed to prevent collateral damage)

greedyspectator · 2012-05-23, 11:03

@demi
I'm assuming you're trying to find a way to cheaply deplete an IS shields and not penetrate them?

If so, then what you have to do is to simply dump a lot of kinetic energy onto the shields. Referring back to my previous momentum to kinetic energy ratio, you'll need momentum to maintain direction while the damage is largely caused by kinetic energy. Since you're not trying to penetrate the shields, momentum is not an issue, and all you need to do is increase Kinetic Energy. The formula is Ke=M*V^2. Since an object with less mass tends to accelerate faster (due to inertia and weight) and kinetic energy is more dependent to velocity than mass, a light projectile with high velocity should impart a lot of damage to an IS shields. My preferred method is to use dumb, schramjet assisted projectiles moving at Ultrasonic speeds, perhaps fired from a coilgun or a scram cannon. Although perhaps not as elegant as, let's say, a missile, it can be used and deployed relatively cheaply.

That, and I just love Kinetic-Kill weapons

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 11:06

What if I took the idea of the magnetic jacketed ceramic fillings bullet and exchanged it with some sort of energy draining chaff? Or at least distabilizing agent?

The bullet fires, impacts with the shield causing more damage than a normal bullet of same mass fired at the same velocity. But it doesn't stop there, the inner filling are scattered into the atmosphere and begin to cause distabilization in the barrier and begin to eat away at it. Since the fillings would be light enough to be air-born for a few minutes, they would stick to the IS as it moves, thereby continually eating away at the shields as well as interrupt traditional forms of communications.

Unlike the beacons I mentioned before though, the chaff like material will have a fixed rate on how much they eat shield energy. So effectiveness may vary from unit to unit.

@greedy: Not quite. I'm trying to think up weaponry that can be made via Mcgyvering and in massive quantities in the right situation. Something along the lines of what could be standard military issue. Cost efficiency is a must.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 11:13

That's more reasonable I'd say.

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 11:17

combine these rounds with the energy disruptor beacon and the stealth generator... we have something of a potential black ops soldier that can at least make an IS pilot remotely worried

All I need now is to make some sort of armor that can at least take a round or two from IS grade kinetic fire arms.

greedyspectator · 2012-05-23, 11:23

@demi:
The most readily available material for that kind of armor would be Biosteel (about 20 times stronger than normal steel) or Carbon Nanotubes (about 100 times stronger than normal steel). Or, you can take an alternative method an use some kind of reactive armor design. Or, you can use both by sandwiching a layer of Biosteel between two layers of Carbon Nanotubes. By flooding the Carbon Nanotubes with electricity (CNs are conductive, Biosteel is not), a penetrating projectile would form a superconductor once it penetrates the first CN layer, thereby dumping the projectile with electrical energy enough to vaporize it (Search google for Electric Reactive Armor).

ZeroXSEED · 2012-05-23, 11:28

^^ D'oh, Eras shall never gimped his anti-I.S. terrorist forces then.

Anyway, in Canon there's combination maneuver similar to SRW's. This idea will be executed more in TLR Stratos due to number of personal I.S. being doubled and character interaction is more diverse.

But almost everyone is gawking Rito-Haruna combination when they heard the name...

[Fairy Dancing]

Think Rampage Ghost as executed by Fairylions. It's campy, it's elegant, and very, very destructive....

demino_hellsin · 2012-05-23, 11:29

But the kinetic energy from impact would still do more than just jar the wearer. If the armor survives but the wearer dies due to internal injuries from impact forces then it's moot.

EDIT: Also, I realized that the stealth unit can cushion against energy based weapons since it bends all forms of light and energy... huh.

StratoSpear · 2012-05-23, 11:33

Speaking of rampage...

Spoiler for Wingman:

2012-05-23, 10:10	Link #31203
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	As I said before, slight ripple is just that, to I.S., they're visible. The only reason Ichika can't evade Rin's attack is not because he couldn't see it, it took quite a time to detect and process the information. OTOH, using focused scanning you'll find the hiding mole somehow, though from tactical POV, this'll work at least for 2-3 second. Longer if you're actually hiding behind something. __________________

2012-05-23, 10:18	Link #31205
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	One more scene: Spoiler for Scene~!: Mikoto closes in, firing her Vent rifle while flying across the Carnage’s side in an attempt to shift Gerald’s attention from the Academy. “You bastard! How dare you shoot down Wolf One…!” Yells the Aegis squad’s leader while Gerald then lets off a short laughter. “AHAHAHA! Wolf One… That’s his call sign?” “Tch…” Gerald then aims the Carnage’s left arm towards her as panels on the forearm’s side slide open to reveal tubes of rocket launchers. He then launches several dumb-fire rockets from the tubes which then races towards the grey Rafale Revive IS. With a slight cringe, Mikoto dashes out of the line of fire, causing all the rockets to miss. “If he’s called ‘Wolf One’… That would imply that he has a squad of his own.” *DADADADADADA* She passively gauges the shots’ line of fire according to the aiming direction of the finger cannons, allowing her to avoid the invisible impact shots with relative ease while retaliating with her Vent rifle despite its ineffectiveness. “Well then, are you his wingman?” Gerald ridicules, inducing immense rage within Mikoto. “No! I’m the leader of the Academy’s security trooper squad, Aegis One!” “Really…? So where are the wingmen of ‘Wolf One’?” “Grrh…!” “He doesn’t have any, does he?” “That’s not it…! Wolf One is—” “How cruel of you… To imply a false sense of camaraderie by assigning a misleading call sign to him…!” “No… That’s not how it is…!” Gerald exploits her brief lapse and aims the railcannon arm at her IS, firing off a quick-charged solid shot which catches her off-guard. “What the—!” *KZIING* The speeding caliber round barely grazes her shoulder armor and strikes one of the external thruster units on her back, severely damaging it. __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."

2012-05-23, 10:25	Link #31206
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Demi I think Stratos' "Mach Magnus" do that. It' was designed to penetrate absolute defense, but fail to do it job and tend to shatter when made contact, however still a potent weapon considering that means it can penetrate normal energy barrier with ease. (Correct me if I wrong) No, nope. In canon, shield mode by default only provides focused, less energy-eating "Reiryaku Byakuya", which mean it's not going to do shit on solid weapon (bullet, missile, solid sword, all the same) but work miraculously well on energy weapon, and unlike normal RB, it doesn't need 'full syncro' and can be used on a whim. __________________

2012-05-23, 10:42	Link #31209
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Setsura Shield mode to be exact, it has three mode: shield, cannon, and claw. I think there's one or two 'relatively cheap' rounds designed for anti I.S. operation early in the thread, let me search it for a while. __________________

2012-05-23, 10:54	Link #31212
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	The HELIX design in particular is hilarious because the stronger enemy barrier is, the better. It's like a thermobaric weapon, but with shield energy instead of oxygen. Also, it's usage is more common to RPG-7 than anything else. When two of them missed the target, it BAKED a quarter of Arena's wall. (Since I.S. coliseum are barrier-sealed to prevent collateral damage) __________________

2012-05-23, 10:04	Link #31201
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	The system would render the user invisible to all forms of photo-dependent scanning as well as radar and radiowave scans. Instead of making a blackhole where something should be there, there is only a slight ripple and nothing more. Since light is bent, they are also invisible to the naked eye. Sounds and environmental interaction still give them away as you said. But the greatest shortcoming of the system was that it was supposed to be useable by standard soldiers. So it runs on a hybrid system of solar capacitors and active solar energy. However since the active stealth bends away light energy, it can't charge and be active at the same time so it has a battery life of 2-10 minutes before recharge is required.(possibly even hours because it only generates wave disrupting energies) The energy weakness can be overcome by carrying a larger energy source but that would be too cumbersome and impractical.

2012-05-23, 10:16	Link #31204
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	@zero: That works well enough then. Doesn't have to be perfect. For some reason, I'm just very obssessed about using a bullet that forces the IS to expend more energy than it should. Specially ionized bullet? ceramic piezoelectric load inside a magnetic jacket? Whole magnetic bullet? @stratos: A shield mode can withstand those kinds of weapons. However that shield mode just won't be moving much or at all

2012-05-23, 10:31	Link #31207
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	The design of the mach magnus comet rounds seems way too high cost for the specifications I want it to have. The sophisticated micro circuits and CPU's in-charge of handling the smart systems of detecting the target and engaging its own shield are also very difficult to reproduce without the backing of an extremely powerful organization, or a sufficiently technological supplier. What I require is a simpler solution. It doesn't have to one-shot the IS or even make them feel they are in imminent danger. However, it will make them regret the fact that they thought they would win in a battle of attrition. There's a shield mode in canon?

2012-05-23, 10:50	Link #31211
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	So you guys meant setsura shield mode... I thought we were talking about IS with shield modes in general As for the bullet designs. I don't really approve of multi-stage ammunitions. Increases the chances of misfire and failure. The first bullet design is more technical about it and uses lower tech but it's still not quite as cost effective as one might imagine. The HELIX however, makes sense.

2012-05-23, 11:03	Link #31213
greedyspectator Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	@demi I'm assuming you're trying to find a way to cheaply deplete an IS shields and not penetrate them? If so, then what you have to do is to simply dump a lot of kinetic energy onto the shields. Referring back to my previous momentum to kinetic energy ratio, you'll need momentum to maintain direction while the damage is largely caused by kinetic energy. Since you're not trying to penetrate the shields, momentum is not an issue, and all you need to do is increase Kinetic Energy. The formula is Ke=M*V^2. Since an object with less mass tends to accelerate faster (due to inertia and weight) and kinetic energy is more dependent to velocity than mass, a light projectile with high velocity should impart a lot of damage to an IS shields. My preferred method is to use dumb, schramjet assisted projectiles moving at Ultrasonic speeds, perhaps fired from a coilgun or a scram cannon. Although perhaps not as elegant as, let's say, a missile, it can be used and deployed relatively cheaply. That, and I just love Kinetic-Kill weapons __________________ “The evil that is in the world almost always comes from ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.” ― Albert Camus

2012-05-23, 11:06	Link #31214
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	What if I took the idea of the magnetic jacketed ceramic fillings bullet and exchanged it with some sort of energy draining chaff? Or at least distabilizing agent? The bullet fires, impacts with the shield causing more damage than a normal bullet of same mass fired at the same velocity. But it doesn't stop there, the inner filling are scattered into the atmosphere and begin to cause distabilization in the barrier and begin to eat away at it. Since the fillings would be light enough to be air-born for a few minutes, they would stick to the IS as it moves, thereby continually eating away at the shields as well as interrupt traditional forms of communications. Unlike the beacons I mentioned before though, the chaff like material will have a fixed rate on how much they eat shield energy. So effectiveness may vary from unit to unit. @greedy: Not quite. I'm trying to think up weaponry that can be made via Mcgyvering and in massive quantities in the right situation. Something along the lines of what could be standard military issue. Cost efficiency is a must.

2012-05-23, 11:13	Link #31215
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	That's more reasonable I'd say. __________________

2012-05-23, 11:17	Link #31216
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	combine these rounds with the energy disruptor beacon and the stealth generator... we have something of a potential black ops soldier that can at least make an IS pilot remotely worried All I need now is to make some sort of armor that can at least take a round or two from IS grade kinetic fire arms.

2012-05-23, 11:23	Link #31217
greedyspectator Senior Member Join Date: May 2012	@demi: The most readily available material for that kind of armor would be Biosteel (about 20 times stronger than normal steel) or Carbon Nanotubes (about 100 times stronger than normal steel). Or, you can take an alternative method an use some kind of reactive armor design. Or, you can use both by sandwiching a layer of Biosteel between two layers of Carbon Nanotubes. By flooding the Carbon Nanotubes with electricity (CNs are conductive, Biosteel is not), a penetrating projectile would form a superconductor once it penetrates the first CN layer, thereby dumping the projectile with electrical energy enough to vaporize it (Search google for Electric Reactive Armor). __________________ “The evil that is in the world almost always comes from ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.” ― Albert Camus

2012-05-23, 11:28	Link #31218
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	^^ D'oh, Eras shall never gimped his anti-I.S. terrorist forces then. Anyway, in Canon there's combination maneuver similar to SRW's. This idea will be executed more in TLR Stratos due to number of personal I.S. being doubled and character interaction is more diverse. But almost everyone is gawking Rito-Haruna combination when they heard the name... [Fairy Dancing] Think Rampage Ghost as executed by Fairylions. It's campy, it's elegant, and very, very destructive.... __________________

2012-05-23, 11:29	Link #31219
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	But the kinetic energy from impact would still do more than just jar the wearer. If the armor survives but the wearer dies due to internal injuries from impact forces then it's moot. EDIT: Also, I realized that the stealth unit can cushion against energy based weapons since it bends all forms of light and energy... huh.

2012-05-23, 11:33	Link #31220
StratoSpear Titans Test Team Pilot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Elysium	Speaking of rampage... Spoiler for Wingman: “W-What is that unit…?” Upon seeing a magnified feed, Iris notices that the battle-armor shares resemblance to the Proioxis. However, unlike the said unit, the unknown battle-armor unit sports more organic armor structure: its chestplate is rounded unlike the geometrical, pointy armor design that the Proioxis has. The battle-armor also sports twin thruster units at the back of its shoulders like the Proioxis albeit more rounded. “No… That’s not the Proioxis…” “Who the hell are you?” Gerald yells out to the unknown unit hovering a short distance away from the Carnage. Concealed within a hypervisor helmet like the Proioxis’, the pilot’s head raises. The hypervisor’s ‘eyes’ then flashes a bright ember light as the pilot gives a cold, sharp stare at the Minerva Pallas battle-armor that’s sitting in the Carnage’s cockpit. “…Someone that you will regret upsetting. Someone that is about to wreck your hardware and tear your organization inside out… with this Arete battle-armor.” Mikoto and Iris immediately recognize the familiar female voice behind the hypervisor helmet. “That voice… the summer enrollee!” “Tsurugi!” Gerald raises an eyebrow as he’s unfamiliar with the name, keeping his sights upon the Arete battle-armor as Tsurugi raises the saber hilt while it deploys an energy saber blade. “…I am his wingman, Tsurugi Katami… Call sign, Wolf Two!” She firmly declares then boosts towards the Carnage. __________________ "You cannot be bad at watching a movie. You cannot be bad at listening to an album. ...But you can be bad at playing a videogame, and the game will punish you and deny you access to the rest of the videogame."