Who is the strongest guy/gal in OP?

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

it would not be out of character for Mihawk to have already lost his title as he has been ignoring an opponent for the last 10 years

What? where was this ever stated, We seen him ignore his old rival once, and ignore Don way back in East Blue, Who's the dude Mihawk has been ignoring for the last 10 years? and the whole Mihawk not really the strongest swordsman and Shanks is a twist that would end up being wack.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok

I always wondered at the significance of her introduction near the Zoro flashback. Then, there was the fact that she looked like Kuina.... and her death still seems a little... fishy to me... But I don't want to deal with flamers, so I'll leave that theory on the back-burner for now.

Well, with her being Smoker's subordinate, she was ound to once again come into conflcit with Zoro and her resemblance to Kunia helped fuel the conflict Zoro would have with facing her... the reasons were there on its own... just haven't giving much thought on the possibilities for her being the final confrontation though

Originally Posted by JINBEI

What? where was this ever stated, We seen him ignore his old rival once, and ignore Don way back in East Blue, Who's the dude Mihawk has been ignoring for the last 10 years? and the whole Mihawk not really the strongest swordsman and Shanks is a twist that would end up being wack.

Shanks... the whole reason Mihawk blew off Shanks was being he was missing an arm (his good arm to be exact), which he lost 10 years ago... Mihawk has little interest in dueling someone with a handicap and as such would have been ignoring Shanks not just the one time, but most likely every time since then

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

and as i said, shanks and mihawk being connected does not in anyway reflect Zoro and Luffy being connected... at this point the dynamics of the story wouldn't be the slightest bit different if Mihawk and Shanks were not connected... thus the connection of Shanks and Mihawk has absoulty no bearing on Luffy and Zoro

Wrong, Both Mihawk and Shanks influence Luffy and Zoro, that's a connection.

trying to do something is better than actually doing nothing

Action >Words.

Luffy surpassing shanks is not the true goal...

I didn't say it was, I said Luffy has to surpass Shanks to get one piece, fact.

Actually i talk of your past fanboyism.... you use to defend the shichibukai to high heaven and back and never except anything less that they were awesome; just like you can't except its even remotely possible that Mihawk isn't really the strongest you use to never except the possibility that for instance, Eneru could have beaten croc... or came up with lame theories of how Mihawk could beat logias as well for that matter (before we knew of Haki)

actually, this theory stays within the bounds of the story... i even go to give reasons that might support the possibility... unlike shippers for instance that talk of things that can not happen because that would taking the characters completely out of character; and no, it would not be out of character for Mihawk to have already lost his title as he has been ignoring an opponent for the last 10 years... furthermore, the build up wouldn't be for nothing, as it would serve as a way of raising Zoro's hope for his disappointment; and it did serve as powerful motivation

it is a good skill in writing to mislead readers, such as giving us the information publicly known by the world as oppose to the real truth, and draw them to false conclusions but provide subtle hints to the real truth

Good writing...? Naw, cause in the past Shanks couldn't beat Mihawk with BOTH arms. Now you say since Mihawk has been ignoring Shanks for the past 10 years since he has one arm, Shanks would be stronger and make it great writing...?











NO.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Wrong, Both Mihawk and Shanks influence Luffy and Zoro, that's a connection.

you seem to be missing the point... Again i ask... how does Shanks and Mihawk having a connection to each other, relate to Zoro and Luffy? If Shanks and Mihawk had never once met before, how would the storyline of one piece differ?

Mihawk affected Zoro in his own way, and Shanks effected Luffy in a different way... if Shanks and Mihawk never shared a connection in rivalry, that dynamic would not change at all

Action >Words.

Words>Nothing
Words=something
not to mention that "Words" means a good posssibility that Shanks will take "action" in the future

Good writing...? Naw, cause in the past Shanks couldn't beat Mihawk with BOTH arms. Now you say since Mihawk has been ignoring Shanks for the past 10 years since he has one arm, Shanks would be stronger and make it great writing...?
NO.

realistic writing (which were threw out the window with a "rubber man") does not = good writing
You need to review your classic Tropes This wouldn't be the first case where a character took a disability and trained themselves to not only compensate for it, but grow beyond what they would normally be capable of (Yomi from yuyu hakusho and Toph from avatar are the first two to come to mind)

In shonen characters can not only grow stronger but they can overcome any disability... i mean, Zoro was nothing compared to Mihawk when they met, and he was barely able to handle a sword back when Mihawk first had the title (he might have been holding it longer than Zoro has been alive)... and yet this is the man that will rise up and take the title in no time at all... Same goes for Luffy... he only started his journey within the last year and already he accomplished and grown stronger than many others who spent their whole life time at sea... and soon he will surpass even the likes of Whitebeard who has been at the chase for one piece for that last 20 years

great writing is not about making things "realistic" but just making them "believable" within the world of the story... What i'm saying is that we got weak little rookies rising up in less than a years time to defeat people who have been at this game for a decade... and your saying that Shanks with 1 arm can't possibly keep on training and eventually grow beyond Mihawk's level in 10 years? when you got no bodies rising up to the greatest heights in just one year, a seasoned and powerful swordsman with one arm rising up and becoming stronger than the next strongest guy in 10 years becomes quite believable...

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

you seem to be missing the point... Again i ask... how does Shanks and Mihawk having a connection to each other, relate to Zoro and Luffy? If Shanks and Mihawk had never once met before, how would the storyline of one piece differ?

Mihawk affected Zoro in his own way, and Shanks effected Luffy in a different way... if Shanks and Mihawk never shared a connection in rivalry, that dynamic would not change at all

You missed my point from the start, I said nothing about Mihawk and Shanks connection with each other relating to Luffy and Zoro, I said...

Originally Posted by Phenomenol

Both Mihakw and Shanks [past rivals] have major influences on our MAIN characters of equal importance cause they are striving to be better than both.

Words>Nothing
Words=something
not to mention that "Words" means a good posssibility that Shanks will take "action" in the future

Walk the walk or talk the talk?
Shanks isn't making moves like Whitebeard or Blackbeard, period.

realistic writing (which were threw out the window with a "rubber man") does not = good writing
You need to review your classic Tropes This wouldn't be the first case where a character took a disability and trained themselves to not only compensate for it, but grow beyond what they would normally be capable of (Yomi from yuyu hakusho and Toph from avatar are the first two to come to mind)

In shonen characters can not only grow stronger but they can overcome any disability... i mean, Zoro was nothing compared to Mihawk when they met, and he was barely able to handle a sword back when Mihawk first had the title (he might have been holding it longer than Zoro has been alive)... and yet this is the man that will rise up and take the title in no time at all... Same goes for Luffy... he only started his journey within the last year and already he accomplished and grown stronger than many others who spent their whole life time at sea... and soon he will surpass even the likes of Whitebeard who has been at the chase for one piece for that last 20 years

great writing is not about making things "realistic" but just making them "believable" within the world of the story... What i'm saying is that we got weak little rookies rising up in less than a years time to defeat people who have been at this game for a decade... and your saying that Shanks with 1 arm can't possibly keep on training and eventually grow beyond Mihawk's level in 10 years? when you got no bodies rising up to the greatest heights in just one year, a seasoned and powerful swordsman with one arm rising up and becoming stronger than the next strongest guy in 10 years becomes quite believable...

I know all about tropes already, thanks for the link though.

You automatically ASSUMING the guy Shanks couldn't beat with BOTH arms [Mihawk] stopped training?! Like I said, it ain't good or believable writing.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

You missed my point from the start, I said nothing about Mihawk and Shanks connection with each other relating to Luffy and Zoro, I said...

No, but it was i who raised the question of "what reason did Oda have of giving Mihawk and Shanks a rival relationship when it doesn't seem to add anything to the story?" in the first place that started this string of conversation...
i think from there you went on to talk about how each of them influenced someone in the story, and i have been pointing out that did not answer the question i orginal asked since their influences on people seems to be completely irrelevant to their own relationship

Walk the walk or talk the talk?
Shanks isn't making moves like Whitebeard or Blackbeard, period.

Talking the talk, is better than doing nothing and only looking out for yourself as Mihawk does... the whole point of this string debate was to say that Shanks has more importance than Mihawk does... all Mihawk does is look out for himself, he doesn't give a damn about the era or the world and any effect he might have is just accidental in him watching out for himself

not to mention "talk" IS a kind of action... the whole "talk the talk, walk the walk" thing you quote refers to people who "talk like they can do something" but do not take "action that they said they could do"... like a person SAYING they can beat up guy A, but leaving the question as to whether or not he can pull it off... If the person can not beat up guy A, that means he could "talk the talk" but he could not "walk the walk"... this is much different than what Shanks is doing with Whitebeard as he was making an attempt at negotiation and diplomacy to convince Whitebeard to take on a different action that only he could do... through "words" he was attempting to influence the "actions" of whitebeard; ergo, if Whitebeard listened, Whitebeard's actions would have been Shank's actions (just because Shanks failed does not discount that fact that he tried to take action)

You automatically ASSUMING the guy Shanks couldn't beat with BOTH arms [Mihawk] stopped training?! Like I said, it ain't good or believable writing.

Where do i say i think Mihawk STOPPED training... All Shanks needs to do is train MORE than Mihawk does. So long as Shanks does that the training would add up and eventually overcome Mihawk. Hell, considering Zoro quick rise to power and him being destined to surpass Mihawk, i'd be quick to assume that Zoro does more training than Mihawk does these days

i mean, if Mihawk does 2000 pushups a day, and Shanks does 3000 one armed pushups a day, would it be surprising to say that Shanks more rigorous training would pay off and allow him to eventually surpass Mihawk?

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

No, but it was i who raised the question of "what reason did Oda have of giving Mihawk and Shanks a rival relationship when it doesn't seem to add anything to the story?" in the first place that started this string of conversation...
i think from there you went on to talk about how each of them influenced someone in the story, and i have been pointing out that did not answer the question i orginal asked since their influences on people seems to be completely irrelevant to their own relationship

That won't be brought up into light until later in the story obviously.

Talking the talk, is better than doing nothing and only looking out for yourself as Mihawk does... the whole point of this string debate was to say that Shanks has more importance than Mihawk does... all Mihawk does is look out for himself, he doesn't give a damn about the era or the world and any effect he might have is just accidental in him watching out for himself

not to mention "talk IS a kind of action"... the "talk the talk, walk the walk" thing you quote refers to people who "talk like they can do something" but do not take "action"... like a person SAYING they can beat up guy A, but leaving the question as to whether or not he can pull it off... If the person can not beat up guy A, that means he could "talk the talk" but he could not "walk the walk"... this is much different than what Shanks is doing with Whitebeard as he was making an attempt at negotiation and diplomacy to convince Whitebeard to take on a different action that only he could do

And Talk is cheap.
Call me when Shanks is doing what Whitebeard is doing, taking action, actually doing something about it.

Where do i say i think Mihawk STOPPED training... All Shanks needs to do is train MORE than Mihawk does. So long as Shanks does that the training would add up and eventually overcome Mihawk. Hell, considering Zoro quick rise to power and him being destined to surpass Mihawk, i'd be quick to assume that Zoro does more training than Mihawk does these days

i mean, if Mihawk does 2000 pushups a day, and Shanks does 3000 one armed pushups a day, would it be surprising to say that Shanks more rigorous training would pay off and allow him to eventually surpass Mihawk?

I'm sorry now your just well wishing here my friend...."ALL sHANKS NEEDS TO DO IS THIS AND DO THAT.."
Shanks COULDN'T beat Mihakw with Both arms in the past he ain't beating him now with one arm. Hence the reason why Mihawk dismissed him and Shanks didn't challenge it at all. The facts are the facts and truth is truth Mihakw is the strongest swordsman.
You know better Slayerx. You and I been at this one piece thing for years,

[james0246]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Good writing...? Naw, cause in the past Shanks couldn't beat Mihawk with BOTH arms. Now you say since Mihawk has been ignoring Shanks for the past 10 years since he has one arm, Shanks would be stronger and make it great writing...?

The various possibilities that SlayerX has speculated upon, while a little farfetched, are not necessarily "bad writing". Instead, they seem to be adequate possibilities (no real major rewrite is needed to adjust for the possible change) that would fit quite easily within the current information that we posses concerning Mihawk and Shanks (as well as a peripheral knowledge of the One Piece universe). While we cannot determine the potential (i.e. "good" or "bad") of Mihawk's possible storylines, we can discuss the potential of Zoro's storyline. Consequently, the only bad writing that we can say for certain that could involve Zoro would be a storyline in which he betrays his friends or he is defeated and does not commit suicide. Otherwise, almost anything is possible (as evidenced by the current storyline involving Zoro and Perona).

edit: LOL, I just edited out that portion right before you posted . I mistook what you had written, but upon review, I edit out the portions dealing with Shanks v Mihawk.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by james0246

Not to get too much into a Shanks v Mihawk debate, but it was never said that Mihawk defeated Shanks 10 years ago (when they were active rivals). In fact, it could very well be that Mihawk only took the title of "Greatest Swordsman" when Shanks lost his arm (I do not know what their current power levels are, nor do I wish to really speculate currently), effectively meaning that Mihawk never defeated Shanks in an actual fight.

I never did say Miahwk beat Shanks either.
You could be right about how Mihawk obtained his title but that is something the story will reveal, obviously.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

That won't be brought up into light until later in the story obviously.

well if that's your reasoning, you should have just said so in the first place

And Talk is cheap.

AGAIN you do it
"talk is cheap" is ANOTHER line just like "talk the talk and walk the walk"... people who say nothing can be accomplished through "talk" is speaking ignorance


hell, people use "talking" everyday to influence the way of the world... and anytime you do something in a attempt to influence others you are taking an "action"
really, "talk the talk" should be meant more towards those types that sit around at home complaining about how crappy things are and how things should be, but never get up off their asses to actually try and change what's wrong; and "talking" to the right kind of people CAN bring about change

a single person can't make a new law for instance, but by talking to those that can make such laws he can take action, the action of talking, to the making new laws... hell entire wars can potentially be averted or ended through "talking"... heh, Oda knows that had shanks came in contact with Whitebeard sooner and Whitbeard listened to Shanks, Ace would not have been captured by Blackbeard

Call me when Shanks is doing what Whitebeard is doing, taking action, actually doing something about it.

oh, i see... so you want to play the "lets give the the benefit of the doubt for now and wait and see" argument for the importance of the Shanks and Mihawk relationship, but don't want to play it here

also you forget, we are talking about who is more important between Shanks and Mihawk, not Shanks and Whitbeard... and thus far, Shanks attempts at "talking" to influence the era, is better than anything Mihawk has done... and anything Mihawk has done that might have influence on the era will have been done out of personal selfishness, which is much lower than the actions and words from someone actually aiming to influence the era at hand

I'm sorry now your just well wishing here my friend...."ALL sHANKS NEEDS TO DO IS THIS AND DO THAT.."
Shanks COULDN'T beat Mihakw with Both arms in the past he ain't beating him now with one arm. Hence the reason why Mihawk dismissed him and Shanks didn't challenge it at all. The facts are the facts and truth is truth Mihakw is the strongest swordsman.
You know better Slayerx. You and I been at this one piece thing for years,

and again i point to the tropes... where those with disabilities through training or other devices found a way not only to compensate for the weakness but rise beyond it

it could very well be that 10 years ago, Shanks and Mihawk each did 2000 push ups to maintain and grow their strength, but after Shanks lost his arm and had his power cut down along with it, he decided he was gonna train even harder to make up for it... hell that's what Zoro is doing, in one year after his encounter with Mihawk he has grown much faster than he did in the 10 years from when he first started his training; Zoro accelerated his training and Shanks could have done the same to overcome his weakness... what you are practically saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Shanks to have trained harder

Mihawk doesn't KNOW he can beat Shanks now... how could he, he hasn't fought Shanks in 10 years... He THINKS he can beat Shanks now that he has a handicap and that's why he has no interest in fighting Shanks. Essentially, his dismissal of Shanks is nothing more than pure arrogance. Is Mihawk right? maybe, but i'm saying its very well possible that he has allowed his arrogance to blind him to Shank's current potential

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

well if that's your reasoning, you should have just said so in the first place

Happy Holidays.

AGAIN you do it
"talk is cheap" is ANOTHER line just like "talk the talk and walk the walk"... people who say nothing can be accomplished through "talk" is speaking ignorance


hell, people use "talking" everyday to influence the way of the world... and anytime you do something in a attempt to influence others you are taking an "action"
really, "talk the talk" should be meant more towards those types that sit around at home complaining about how crappy things are and how things should be, but never get up off their asses to actually try and change what's wrong; and "talking" to the right kind of people CAN bring about change

a single person can't make a new law for instance, but by talking to those that can make such laws he can take action, the action of talking, to the making new laws... hell entire wars can potentially be averted or ended through "talking"... heh, Oda knows that had shanks came in contact with Whitebeard sooner and Whitbeard listened to Shanks, Ace would not have been captured by Blackbeard

I'm gonna give it to you straight...What has Shanks accomplished through his talking...?

Spoiler:

NOTHING

oh, i see... so you want to play the "lets give the the benefit of the doubt for now and wait and see" argument for the importance of the Shanks and Mihawk relationship, but don't want to play it here

also you forget, we are talking about who is more important between Shanks and Mihawk, not Shanks and Whitbeard... and thus far, Shanks attempts at "talking" to influence the era, is better than anything Mihawk has done... and anything Mihawk has done that might have influence on the era will have been done out of personal selfishness, which is much lower than the actions and words from someone actually aiming to influence the era at hand

Shanks has done nothing to influence the era but bring a young boy out to sea. No more important than what Mihawk in the story has done. Heck we haven't even had many Shanks showings and your acting as if he's so relevant right now; he's not.

and again i point to the tropes... where those with disabilities through training or other devices found a way not only to compensate for the weakness but rise beyond it

it could very well be that 10 years ago, Shanks and Mihawk each did 2000 push ups to maintain and grow their strength, but after Shanks lost his arm and had his power cut down along with it, he decided he was gonna train even harder to make up for it... hell that's what Zoro is doing, in one year after his encounter with Mihawk he has grown much faster than he did in the 10 years from when he first started his training; Zoro accelerated his training and Shanks could have done the same to overcome his weakness

Mihawk doesn't KNOW he can beat Shanks now... how could he, he hasn't fought Shanks in 10 years... He THINKS he can beat Shanks now that he has a handicap and that's why he has no interest in fighting Shanks. Essentially, his dismissal of Shanks is nothing more than pure arrogance. Is Mihawk right? maybe, but i'm saying its very well possible that he has allowed his arrogance to blind him to Shank's current potential

Mihawk: "If you fancy yourself a swordsman, then we need not cross blades.
I shall divine the difference in our strengths by eye.
Does the bravery to stand up to me with blade in hand come from your heart...?
Or from simple ignorance?"

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

I'm gonna give it to you straight...What has Shanks accomplished through his talking...?

Spoiler:

NOTHING

trying to do something but failing is not "nothing"
waht it does show is that Shanks is highly likely to take on furthar action in the future

Shanks has done nothing to influence the era but bring a young boy out to sea. No more important than what Mihawk in the story has done. Heck we haven't even had many Shanks showings and your acting as if he's so relevant right now; he's not.

actually what shanks did IS more important... as i said, the great difference between what Shanks does and what Mihawk does is that Shanks does things for the benefit of not himself but the era in general... Shanks expects great things from Luffy and to move the era, and he also tried to move thigns when he wanted to get in touch with Whitebeard...

Mihawk on the other hand, he does things for himself... he has a personal interest in Zoro as Zoro can be a potential new challanger to him... he doesn't give a damn about how Zoro might effect the era. Mihawk is arrogant and selfish in his actions...

all in all, this gives Shanks more importance than Mihawk

Mihawk:"If you fancy yourself a swordsman, then we need not cross blades.
I shall divine the difference in our strengths by eye.

Pheh, your comparing Mihawk looking at someone who isn't even strong enough to stand in his shadow to Shanks? If Mihawk could determine ALL strength including such close to his own at a glace, then it would have been pointless for him to even bother battling Shanks in the past as he would already know the outcome...

that just ain't gonna cut it, unless you are trying to argue that Shanks is not just weaker but SIGNIFICANTLY weaker, which is unlikely due to his status in the world...

not to mention the fact that Mihawk says he has no interest in fighting a one armed man... sounds more like he's not even using that glance of his and just looking with arrogance and saying that someone with a handicap his beneath him...

[Red Kite]

Originally Posted by Chosen

I would guess Shanks is the strongest, all the mysterious guys in Shonen Jumps are always incredible strong, like Itachi is in Naruto.

itachi is not misterious we lnow more about him then deidara.... anyways to stay on topic i think its either a tie between shanks and whitebeard (aokiji also being somwhhere inbetween)


mihawk cant be the strongest because it is obvious that one day zorro is gonna have to beat him.

[BlackNhite]

Originally Posted by Red Kite

mihawk cant be the strongest because it is obvious that one day zorro is gonna have to beat him.

Well, if you're going to use that as an argument, its obvious that the strongest person in One Piece would have to be Luffy as his dream is, "loftier than even Zoro's," to quote Mihawk.

Luffy is bound to surpass both Shanks and Whitebeard sooner or later.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by BlackNhite

Well, if you're going to use that as an argument, its obvious that the strongest person in One Piece would have to be Luffy as his dream is, "loftier than even Zoro's," to quote Mihawk.

Luffy is bound to surpass both Shanks and Whitebeard sooner or later.

indeed, the thread is more about how is the strongest now or in the very near future will be... whose gonna be the strongest at the end is pretty much inevitably gonna be Luffy as per the laws of shonen

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Whitebeard is the strongest character until proven otherwise. No one can refute this statement at the moment.

[Cinocard]

Whoa, this argument about Shanks and Mihawk has been for several days and still nothing concluded.

I wanna say something:

22 years after Roger execution, the New world has remained "peaceful" with the power balance between Marine, Shichibukai and Yonkou. They all hardly have anything to do. So Shanks kills time by drinking, and Mihawk kills time by traveling and chopping down small preys. Nothing we have seen would indicate they would gain more power than the past, though they should, as this is Shounen.

We don't know anything about the duel between Mihawk and Shanks in the past. We don't know if it's really a tie, or one of them has the upper hand and just leave it like that (if you read Shounen enough, you can imagine the picture) We don't even know if they dueled each other only once or not.

One's reason does not tell how importance one's action is. Blackbeard is pure evil and selfish, yet it's clear how influence his actions are.
Mihawk, just sitting there as a Shichibukai, is influential enough to the whole world (may be he didn't even want to do it, but understood he must do it) We didn't see much of his action, but it does not mean he didn't do anything. He MAY has his own calculation, like Kuma.

And i don't want to argue again, one-arm man and two-arm man, who is better.

The only thing i see worth mentioning is Mihawk sentence: "i have given up thinking about fighting the one arm man like you for a long time."
If Mihawk and Shanks power were truly equal before, there's no doubt after losing an arm, in a short time Shanks could not fill in the gap in the power, and lost in a rematch against Mihawk. Mihawks could even give Shanks several chance, but he still lost.
Or as a fight between swordmen (Shanks also uses sword, so i assume so) Mihawk just finds it meaningless to fight a handicapped opponent, regardless of the outcome.
Or Mihawk was just ignorance and looked down to others.
Or he became a Shichibukai around the time Shanks came back from East Blue, or Shanks officially became an Yonkou at that time, or both, so they had to stop dueling. As it wasn't a personal matter anymore.
Or their Friendship just "bloomed" after the duel, in a shounen way.

Again, it comes down to how you see it, personal perspective, i guess.

[chopperman]

of course Blackbeard!

[shankss]

My bet is on Tiger Fisher even if he is dead.Even as a fishman on land he wrecked entire Mariejoa town and freed entire slaves alone.Not everyone can do this, especially not alone

[MihawkXGP]

Originally Posted by shankss

My bet is on Tiger Fisher even if he is dead.Even as a fishman on land he wrecked entire Mariejoa town and freed entire slaves alone.Not everyone can do this, especially not alone

No doubt he was a powerful fishman, but no way was he the strongest. Since the death of Roger, there is no question about it that Whitebeard is the strongest in the OP world and has gone unchallenged up until BB revealed his true power.

Oh yeah, good old topic. I remember all the old debates i had in this topic...that was fun.