US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[GDB]

Lindsey Graham now opposes "No New Tax" Pledge

So, one of two things will happen. He'll either be buried by the GOP zealots, or his openness will begin a domino effect with more somewhat sane republicans stepping up. Question is, will sanity win out, or greed?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by GDB

Lindsey Graham now opposes "No New Tax" Pledge

So, one of two things will happen. He'll either be buried by the GOP zealots, or his openness will begin a domino effect with more somewhat sane republicans stepping up. Question is, will sanity win out, or greed?

My money is on him being buried. Too many GOP have signed their name on the dotted line and in effect sold their soul to someone who isn't even an elected official. They can't back off now, not when they are the majority.

Graham's gone.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by GDB

Lindsey Graham now opposes "No New Tax" Pledge

So, one of two things will happen. He'll either be buried by the GOP zealots, or his openness will begin a domino effect with more somewhat sane republicans stepping up. Question is, will sanity win out, or greed?

Let's hope for sanity but, given the curent GOP, greed ( if not stupidity or worse ) is more likely...

[Solace]

Bill Maher's "shock value" joking aside, he makes a good case for the liberal frustration with Obama and the Dems here:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ax15XRL1URQ

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Mr. DJ]

He is the perfect balance of love and hate.

[Sugetsu]

Great video Solace, it makes you laugh because there is so much truth in it.

By the way, I was hoping to take this thread by storm with the videos I posted about GOP tanking the economy on purpose, but only Xacual seemed interested.

[mangamuscle]

@Sugetsu To me is has been quite obvious for years that the GOP wants to return to the white house so badly they are wrecking the economy just to point fingers and say "see, the dems can't you need us", they are like a ****ing group of lemmings >_<

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

Great video Solace, it makes you laugh because there is so much truth in it.

By the way, I was hoping to take this thread by storm with the videos I posted about GOP tanking the economy on purpose, but only Xacual seemed interested.

Well... it isn't that they aren't interesting - its just that the its been fairly open knowledge for several years except to the kool-aid drinkers. There are simply too many video clips, quotes, and emails confirming it from the GOP leadership itself. As far as I'm concerned, when the top leadership each separately say "Our top priority is to make Obama a one-term president" and you watch them play obstructionist on *every* issue that even has bipartisan "win" written on it - unless one is really stupid (apparently almost half the population?)............................

And yes, I don't care if you're conservative or liberal -- if you can't see what the GOP has become, at this point, I have to draw conclusions about you.

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Vexx

And yes, I don't care if you're conservative or liberal -- if you can't see what the GOP has become, at this point, I have to draw conclusions about you.

I would LOVE to see you debate with my Republican friend...he's so blind to this.

[Anh_Minh]

Also, personally, I don't like videos. Too long, I prefer text.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Also, personally, I don't like videos. Too long, I prefer text.

There was an article long ago (sorry, don't have the link) that showed most people prefer the text to photos/video. My browser does not do flash (eat that malware) so I only see videos if I am really interested AND they were codded with html5 support.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

There was an article long ago (sorry, don't have the link) that showed most people prefer the text to photos/video. My browser does not do flash (eat that malware) so I only see videos if I am really interested AND they were codded with html5 support.

Fastest way for me to leave a web page is to say you have a guide or tutorial on something and then it turns out to be a video. I read *much* faster than the usual pace of video. For news - video is useful to emphasize what someone has said, but it should be supplementary to text - not a replacement.

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I would LOVE to see you debate with my Republican friend...he's so blind to this.

Usually on the web I find that such people are
1) too young to remember and haven't studied recent history
2) old enough but politically infantile (they don't go past the talking points/soundbites)
3) they've got blinders on because they're 'single issue' people ("no taxes", "pro life", "anti immigrant", Obama is Black, etc) -- which also means they aren't thinking critically.

I registered originally as a Republican in the 1970s because the Democratic party was corrupt and ineffective but also because the GOP was playing a good balance between fiscal responsibility and making sure the barons got their cut. Eisenhower raised taxes, Nixon raised taxes, Reagan raised taxes - when it was needed for good governance and to execute programs that the private sector sucks at. I voted for Reagan (which I only slightly regret because the other choices were meh), I voted for Bush 1 (he had an excellent grasp of foreign affairs and understood that compromise was how it worked), and I voted for Bob Dole. But since the early 90s, the drift of the GOP into extremist positions that are abusive to most of the community has driven me and other "traditional" fiscal conservative social progressive types away.

The current GOP laughs at the majority of their voter base as they stomp on them, mislead them, and abuse them. They're far more dangerous to the community of the United States than the alternative (which also needs a massive reset but one party at a time, thanks). Follow the money and you'll see most of the corporations who actually depend on the existence of a middle-class have quietly shifted money to the Democrats. The GOP is primarily funded by the "0.01%" who could care less if the US fell into a two tier wasteland. So what we have in the US is not "left" and "right" but "corporatist center-right" and "plutocrat ultra-right".

[Ithekro]

Many people that "support" the GOP are voters that think Obama is the worst thing ever. Be it from a racial standpoint, a reaction to the "Chosen One" following Obama had in the beginning, or simply thinking he's a Socialist, Muslim, or both. Or those that refuse to think he is an American at all no matter what is placed before them. They will believe anything that is brough up is a fake and have people willing to testify that Obama is not a native born.

Most of these people do not like the GOP politics, and certainly don't care for their economics. But they see it as a better alternative to losing (in their mind) who we are as a country. The ideals of a country outweigh the economy. They would rather their be "minor" problems than have the country turn into a Socialist Muslim state (as they seem to believe will happen if Obama gets another term). A way of life idealism fight verse politics....

With that to go against....well, I don't think any arguement is getting through all that.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Well... it isn't that they aren't interesting - its just that the its been fairly open knowledge for several years except to the kool-aid drinkers. There are simply too many video clips, quotes, and emails confirming it from the GOP leadership itself. As far as I'm concerned, when the top leadership each separately say "Our top priority is to make Obama a one-term president" and you watch them play obstructionist on *every* issue that even has bipartisan "win" written on it - unless one is really stupid (apparently almost half the population?)............................

And yes, I don't care if you're conservative or liberal -- if you can't see what the GOP has become, at this point, I have to draw conclusions about you.

This, pretty much. The GOP is the party that campaigns on the platform of "The government can't do anything right", and then once elected does a fine job of proving it.

The truth is that the Democrats are very flawed. Do I like the fact that Obama is Bush-lite? No. Do I like the fact that most of them couldn't find a backbone if their lives depended on it? No. Do I like the fact that they're incredibly good at shooting themselves in the foot? No.

But that doesn't make them extremists, it just makes them lame. If people honestly cannot see the difference between what the GOP has become and how it is only getting worse, and what the Democrats are....I'm truly sorry. It means things have to get even worse for the country before people realize this.

Here's an excerpt from one of my favorite political speeches:

Originally Posted by FDR

Let me warn you and let me warn the Nation against the smooth evasion which says, "Of course we believe all these things; we believe in social security; we believe in work for the unemployed; we believe in saving homes. Cross our hearts and hope to die, we believe in all these things; but we do not like the way the present Administration is doing them. Just turn them over to us. We will do all of them- we will do more of them we will do them better; and, most important of all, the doing of them will not cost anybody anything."

But, my friends, these evaders are banking too heavily on the shortness of our memories. No one will forget that they had their golden opportunity—twelve long years of it.

Remember, too, that the first essential of doing a job well is to want to see the job done. Make no mistake about this: the Republican leadership today is not against the way we have done the job. The Republican leadership is against the job's being done.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/in...#axzz1T2R6VpBQ

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Usually on the web I find that such people are
1) too young to remember and haven't studied recent history
2) old enough but politically infantile (they don't go past the talking points/soundbites)
3) they've got blinders on because they're 'single issue' people ("no taxes", "pro life", "anti immigrant", Obama is Black, etc) -- which also means they aren't thinking critically.

It the case of peoples on and out of the web, the one on the web are simply more vocal about it.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Solace

This, pretty much. The GOP is the party that campaigns on the platform of "The government can't do anything right", and then once elected does a fine job of proving it.

The truth is that the Democrats are very flawed. Do I like the fact that Obama is Bush-lite? No. Do I like the fact that most of them couldn't find a backbone if their lives depended on it? No. Do I like the fact that they're incredibly good at shooting themselves in the foot? No.

But that doesn't make them extremists, it just makes them lame.

Pretty much my position on the Dems.
Obama certainly didn't delivered what he promised when he signed up. But not because he didn't want to, he just wasn't very good at his job.

However, GOP will never deliver what they promised because they simply don't want to. They have a voting bloc who are under so much control that GOP no longer need to do anything for them at all.

[Bri]

Looks like Murdoch and Newscorp (Fox, Sky, WSJ, Sun, Times) made a few too many enemies over the years. British politicians now see a chance to get rid of the leash. Their calling for the break up of part of his empire.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18412172


Scary example is how former PM Major admits to Murdoch trying to manipulate UK foreign policy by threatening to withdraw his media support in the following election.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18405629


According to Major, Murdoch wanted a UK referendum on the EU so it would leave the EU. The reasoning being that EU-internal competition regulations will hurt the profitability and market concentration of his empire. He also implies he controls his news media, not the editors. Clearly he acts the same way in the US with Fox and his papers. There goes the pretense of a free press.

What strikes me and what I find very cynical is Murdoch's method of operation: he uses his media to stir hate and division to manipulate the public opinion, and backs certain more pliable politicians, simply to improve his empire's financial performance and power, not out of any ideological background or preference. Corporatism at it's finest...

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Bri

What strikes me and what I find very cynical is Murdoch's method of operation

What strikes me is that people think Murdoch is some kind of oddball in a sea of free media/journalism *facepalm* Here the two biggest media outlets are supporting one presidential candidate out of profit and corporate gain, big media companies are the same no matter where you are.

[Sugetsu]

^ The US population would certainly not be as divided as it is now if there wasn't a Fox News to spread misinformation around.

What really fascinates me about Mr Murdoch is his hunger to control media. If I am not mistaken, at least in the US, he owns most of the news papers and local new stations. Why would a man want that kind of information control in the first place, unless he had some kind of agenda? I don't think he just wants to maximize profits, there is no need to control most of the media just to get money. I believe the man is in on some kind of conspiracy. I know that sounds paranoid.

[mangamuscle]

^ Whether it is obvious or not I will say it, once a man has acumulted great amounts of money, the only thing left for them is to start acumulating political power. This is the same no matter who he is, the problem for Mr. Murdoch is that he become too obvious, like the vampire that slaughters a whole town and leaves the carcass in plain view.