2010-05-16, 00:43 | Link #23422 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I don't know if I should laugh or sob in the corner. As for the suicide thing, Kallen's character poem suggests that she was actually seeking a form of Suicide By Cop, though more indirectly than what Suzaku was after. The lines in her poem suggest that she did not trully believe her actions in the resistence would change anything, but rather only lead to her own death, and that she didn't see anything beyond this until Zero appeared. Perhaps "seeking" is too strong a word, but the fact that she was willingly engaging in what she believed to be dangerous and admitedly futile activities doesn't imply a terribly hopeful situation. |
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2010-05-16, 10:40 | Link #23423 |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
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Well, she didn't have a will of her own before she met Zero, she was just following her brother's footsteps, or rather, trying to kill as many people as she possibly could who she believes to be responsible for her brother's death, i.e, every single Britannian out there.
As for Japan being free and all that, Kallen is not a stupid girl, she knows very well that what her current band of merry men is doing is nothing more but annoying Britannia, which is why Zero was such an important figure for her, it gave her a sense of direction and purpose instead of rashly charging at Britannians just cause she wants to kill em.
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2010-05-16, 10:43 | Link #23424 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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he gave her the sense that she can WIN not purpose, since she always HAD a purpose he gave her a sense that she can actually ACHIEVE that purpose and she never went for that whole "kill as many as you can" angle either her targets usually were actual military people, or people who are a threat to her not just "anyone who's britannian"
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2010-05-16, 10:58 | Link #23425 | |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
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Well, I wasn't really talking about civilians, after all my dear Kallen is not a psycho mass-murderer, but the relish she feels when she takes out a Britannian Knightframe is proof enough that she just enjoys killing them whenever she gets the chance, and I don't blame here.
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2010-05-16, 12:24 | Link #23427 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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if it was, every soldier and cop who has ever taken a life would be a murderer. its only murder if you intentionally (cold blooded or not) kill someone who can't fight back and isn't at all a threat to you simply killing isn't enough to count as murder kallen killed a LOT of people best we can tell, she never murdered anybody
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2010-05-16, 12:36 | Link #23428 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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i'll concede that she's killed a LOT of people
as for the "murder" part, we'll just have to agree to disagree for now though its quite suprising is that she's probably got a considerably lower death toll then Nunnaly by the end of the show how the fuck did they think THAT was a good idea
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2010-05-16, 12:38 | Link #23429 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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I mostly agree, but the "can't fight back" part seems a bit general to me. If I give someone a gun and a fair chance to kill me first, it'd still be murder if I was faster. Though yeah, if it was the other way around, my would-be victim would have acted in self-defence.
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2010-05-16, 19:46 | Link #23431 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2010-05-17, 08:51 | Link #23432 |
Pancakes
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In Your House. No, really, look properly.
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Not quite, a mass murderer, under strict definition, is someone who ordered the deaths of troves of people, or is directly responsible for their deaths. An example of this would be Adolf Hitler who ordered the genocide of the Jews, or Stalin who purged people who weren't supporting him, or of course, Lulu.
Kallen was a soldier, nothing more, nothing less. It is the twisted thought process of mankind, murder is acceptable as long as it is on a battlefield. War is the one and only place where people would actually be decorated and awarded for killing other people. And in that respect, Kallen is not, and never will be, a mass murderer, she was simply doing her job. An often overused reason, yet true, a soldier who is unable to kill will be nothing more but dead weight on the battlefield. An unfortunate yet true fact.
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2010-05-17, 20:39 | Link #23433 |
Metal Gear!?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
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I don't see what the big deal is. Kallen is an pilot so is the rest of the KMFs pilots in the show who killed people. Many characters took out others in KMFs in battles. At least Kallen didn't kill someone face to face which would have been more difficult to do. Like Lelouch to Clovis or C.C to Mao. In an battle it is expected people will die. Kallen fought for respectable reasons. And she wasn't like Lord Bradley anyway who enjoyed killing.
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Last edited by SonOfHeaven; 2010-05-17 at 20:52. |
2010-05-17, 23:11 | Link #23435 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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2010-05-18, 06:31 | Link #23438 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Suzaku is a soldier, at least, but Shirley was completely innocent, and Lelouch was also a regular civilian in Kallen's eyes. I also don't see how Lelouch shooting Clovis or C.C. shooting Mao is supposed to be worse than Kallen and her group bringing civilians in danger or being ready to dispose of someone who considers you a friend. *hugs Clovis*
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2010-05-18, 07:10 | Link #23439 | |
Metal Gear!?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
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At turn 7, C.C didn't seem to care if the BK(who seemed to be ok with C.C at that point) was taken out including Kallen who she spent time with before R2. All that matter was Lelouch being alive. That was kind of messed up. I'll kindly agree to disagree also on the Kallen worse than Lelouch part as well. I'm going to leave it at that.
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Last edited by SonOfHeaven; 2010-05-18 at 08:01. |
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2010-05-18, 07:23 | Link #23440 | |||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Quite a few of her actions weren't any better than a lot of Lelouch's actions, as far as I'm concerned. But that's all.
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