2011-08-12, 16:43 | Link #23761 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Spoiler for haguruma:
Spoiler for Wanderer:
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2011-08-12, 16:53 | Link #23762 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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2011-08-12, 16:55 | Link #23763 | |||
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If that means that he actually wrote THE truth or if he just invented several "what if scenarios" that are all equally possible...I think we'll never know unless somebody forces him to say so. Quote:
And admit it everyone, who wouldn't like playing a role like Beato (EP1-4 that is) once in your life?! I found it entertaining, because I'd rather have an author who appears to be full of himself than somebody who obviously wavers at everything the readers say. In the end Umineko-Ryűkishi was a mixture of both...but at least it didn't show that much during Umineko's run. Basically my position is: "Why the heck do I need to like an author to enjoy his work?" And he even said that he wanted to return back to being modest for his next releases...which I don't know why we shouldn't believe that. Quote:
I'm not asking about the chances being slimmer or broader than your average mystery novel, I'm talking about things that were actually impossible to infer, reason or guess before EP7 and 8 came out? |
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2011-08-12, 16:57 | Link #23764 |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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I think he comes off arrogantly because he's trying really really hard to get us to "get" his message on our own. In fact, I think he's desperately trying to get people to appreciate his work.
He's not arrogant. He's insecure. |
2011-08-12, 17:10 | Link #23765 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Guess to give another example of my theories, it's like arc 8's Bernkastel arc.
There is no way of finding an absolute answer as the variety of theories and ways to twist Bern's game Ive seen here showns. So you cannot find an objective truth about it. Anyway even if you did, it probably wouldn't be based on the "prime truth" about the characters involved within Bern's theorical scenario. However the one thing you can very clearly get is Bern's intents in making this game, and what message she wanted to send to Ange (and us) through it. That you can find out with absolute certainty. Exploring a Rokkenjima prime to me is akin to exploring a "Bern's scenario's Prime" while my theory is the same as trying to get what prompted Bern to show us such a game. Only Bern is easy to understand. At least to me, what prompted Bern to make that scenario is a lot more the "truth" of it, then the answer she wanted us to reach or any other theorical answer any fans could reach out of it. Again, I believe the whole event existed to make us think about exactly that. |
2011-08-12, 17:11 | Link #23766 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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For example, one could be unfriendly in disposition to Roman Polanski over his sexual dalliances and not like him as a person, yet still like the works he's directed because his sins have no bearing on his artistry. Conversely, one could personally dislike Upton Sinclair for being a heavy-handed politically-minded socialist, and therefore dislike The Jungle because it employs its writing techniques to bludgeon the reader over the head with the author's political agenda. If I wasn't aware that Sinclair was actually only writing the book to convince me of a political point, I might enjoy it more as a stark portrayal of the early 19th century industrial machine. And many people did! Indeed, that's pretty much what his work is more famous for now. If one believes Ryukishi is arrogant, condescending, and hypocritical, then when he says that his work has a deep and important message one might come to suppose that in fact his work is (1) not as important as the author thinks it is, (2) not as deep as the author thinks it is, and (3) not even the actual message the author thinks he's conveying.
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2011-08-12, 18:07 | Link #23767 | ||
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While the truth behind Beatrice can help us reason towards the truth of Ange's reality. And when we consider that Umineko has the perspective that there is nothing like "absolute, objective, everlasting truth". Yes, we are not able to flawlessly solve what happened on "Rokkenjima Prime" (though I'm starting to dislike that name because it somehow ignores the fact that the first two stories preceded said "first event") or rather "The Rokkenjima of Anges reality", but we are able to reason towards the truth of the fictions and from there we can construct our own theory of what happened on the island. That is also an integral part of Umineko. I'd still like to know if the only thing you regard as unsolvable is "the real Rokkenjima" or anything else... Quote:
He never implied that Umineko had a deep or important message that had to be accepted by its readers. And while of course he takes a certain standpoint concering his perception of reality, he doesn't really comment on culpability... |
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2011-08-12, 18:38 | Link #23768 | ||||
The True Culprit
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2011-08-15, 18:22 | Link #23769 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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Umm... okay, so... what did we figure out? Because I'm pretty sure that Ryukishi being arrogant, insecure, or whatever doesn't get us anywhere.
On another note, if Bernkastel is supposed to represent us in some way then what does Lambda represent? I always assumed that Lambda was supposed to be Ryukishi because its his job to act as a "buddy" throughout the story. |
2011-08-15, 18:35 | Link #23770 | |
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Lambda gave Beato her powers, she made her a witch. At the end of EP3 she even threatens her that she would take away all her powers if Beato wasn't ready to fight a real battle and in EP4 she wanted Ange to join her as well as it would have meant that she could be with the illusion of her brother forever. Bern became the companion for Battler as long as he pursued the goal of crushing the fantasy side...she even said again and again that she would stop doing that if the person she joined forces with didn't give their everything. |
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2011-08-15, 18:48 | Link #23771 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I figured Lambdadelta was symbolic for the certain will to find out the truth, even though Beato gave up in EP 5, certain willpower still dragged Battler along because giving up was not an option, or something to that extent, idk enough about the author theory to guess more on that.
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2011-08-15, 23:53 | Link #23775 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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They offer him the chance to reach the readership ("giving Beatrice her status as a witch") They SHOULD be both knowledgeable about the mystery genre, and at least enough in the know regarding Tohya's intended solutions to decide it's worth the investment ("Lambda can see the underside of Beato's game, and knows it's workings") Tis a thought, anyway. |
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2011-08-16, 13:26 | Link #23777 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Germany
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Possibly both of them represents the Good and the Bad of the game or literally shows the inner conflict of yasu since we know she have issues with her own decisions. I have the feeling that it's no a big deal after all.
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2011-08-16, 22:04 | Link #23778 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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I know that these ideas aren't exactly all that different from what many have said already, but I'll weigh in anyway: Bern and Lambda do not represent anything concrete. They are metaphorical laws of nature; Bern is probability and Lambda is personal determination. It's how the two interact with each other that produces the outcome of things. Of course it's implied that there are other "witches" (metaphorical laws) of Bern and Lambda's level. Meanwhile, Featherine could be thought of as fate itself. Their scope of existence is not in any way limited to the events of Umineko; it just happens to be the context we see them in. And any of them could end up playing the good guy or bad guy depending on the circumstances. I just finished reading episode 8 (it was very hard work at my level of Japanese). Here are some thoughts: Spoiler:
Last edited by Wanderer; 2011-08-17 at 13:50. |
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2011-08-16, 22:31 | Link #23779 | |
The True Culprit
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2011-08-17, 09:07 | Link #23780 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Just something I thought of randomly. |
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