2009-06-17, 15:23 | Link #81 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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the leadership is already talking about a RECOUNT of the votes
but since its not likely to CHANGE anything since its the votes themselves that are the problem, its not likely to be enough this would either end violently or it would die out slowly and painfully i cant really see it bringing about the real change
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-06-17 at 18:42. |
2009-06-17, 15:43 | Link #82 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Focusing on Iran's interesting dilemma, Israeli sentiment seems to be simply publicly admitted they prefer "the current idiot" over Mousavi because Mousavi is harder to demonize. Israeli references on preference:
http://israelpolicyforum.ngphost.com...anian-election http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArt...ws/Israel.html That is their only tidbit in this election story which is primarily about fraud and a small ruling elite. I find Iranian "where is my vote?" rallies encouraging because I regret the US 2000 election (also quite likely won through fraud as long, slow legal action and scrutiny reveals) wasn't reacted to in the same way by complacent Americans. The focus of the thread is that the educated population and middle class of Iran has woken up for a moment. Also the moderate wing of the clerics have coughed and the Ayatollah blinked. Now *his* position is in jeopardy for praising the election too fast. Unfortunately, if the repressive forces are able to snip enough data lines and feel comfortable, I could see this quickly blowing up into a civil war...
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-17 at 18:58. Reason: tuned to focus on core purpose of thread |
2009-06-17, 15:48 | Link #83 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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too bad it wont last for long
ahmadinijad is just a figure head after all if put under enough pressure, the Ayatollah might sacrifice his support of ahmadinijad in favor of protecting his position and then this whole thing would have been for nothing (there isnt any REAL difference anyway) ahmadinijad might get ousted, but the REAL problem remains
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-06-17 at 15:59. |
2009-06-17, 16:38 | Link #84 | |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
US WH Press Secretary was about scream with joy on TV that he hardly held himself back. That is based on a few seconds impression I had on him when he was talking about Iran. |
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2009-06-17, 18:19 | Link #85 | |
Just call me Ojisan
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: U.K. Hampshire
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If recent posters do not want to receive Infractions (and therefore possible bans), I suggest you start deleting your own posts or at the least edit out all of the off-topic discussion (and I mean all). If any of it remains when I look at the thread tomorrow then don't be surprised when you are banned |
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2009-06-17, 20:29 | Link #86 | |
Senior Member
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2009-06-17, 20:42 | Link #87 |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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I have to agree. Obama doesn't seem to want or need a Bay of Pigs so early in his term. Moreover, it's quite...arrogant...to suggest that American espionage influence is so strong in Iran that it manages to provoke a near-spontaneous mass reaction in that particular country. Plus, mass protests have never really been the US' preferred weapon of choice. Coup d'etats and strongmen are much easier to orchestrate. :-I
Although I would admit that Western "hawks" are either rejoicing right now for their wet dream coming close to reality (a mass protest in Iran with some potential at toppling the regime) or, like bladeofdarkness' presentation of the Israeli view, show some extreme cynicism by arguing that the radical should still win (or, more cleverly, argue that the radical *will* still win, and only slightly imply their own preferences), just so the enemy would still be around. As for me, I fear for the safety of those who dare to raise their voice, and hope for their success. Iranians deserve better. |
2009-06-17, 22:29 | Link #88 |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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It'd be arrogent if he was American, but I believe he's from Turkey. In that case it's more paranoid. The whole idea that the US is some omnipresent villian responsible for all the world's problems is foolish at best. If the US did have the amount of control in Iran needed for such a thing to happen, the whole nuclear issue wouldn't even exist. The US would obviously have enough control to stop Iran's nuclear program if they have the amount of control to get tens maybe hundreds of thousands of people to protest like that. No, this is the Iranian people fed up with they system and wanting reform. Even if the elections were fair, the government still needs to satasify the reform movement.
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2009-06-17, 23:37 | Link #89 |
cho~ kakkoii
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
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Agreed! That's why I also believe like others who have already pointed out about why outside meddling poses a grave risk. A nation will change if its people desire for such and not the other way around.
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2009-06-18, 03:59 | Link #90 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Quote:
musavi is NOT really that different then ahmadinijad as he seems to be portrayed the man has played a key role in the creation of iran's nuke progrem as well as chemical weapons has shown support for the hizballa (funding it to be the spear head against the "little satan") and has refused to release american hostages during the crisis he is NOT some nice guy who just wants to bring about world peace and happiness for all he is part of the same radical system and has been for YEARS (since its very begining) he may LOOK better and talk nicer, but he is only looking better because he is standing NEXT to ahmadinijad and you can put the head of sadam hussain onto the body of a cobra snake and it would still compare favorably with ahmadinijad (yeah, i stole it, so what ) so when i say that the radical's will STILL win in the end i'm not saying it becouse i prefer it i would MUCH rather the iranian people oust the whole regime altogether and start anew let them live better healthier and more promising life (X-BOX 360 for all) happy people are less likely to pick fights with other countries but when you have a regime that is fandamentally dictatorial, then they would ALWAYS be picking fights becouse its the only way to distract from their own failures they have already blamed the riots on the west they already say that obama showing interest in whats happening (like every other human being with access to a news paper) is "the US sticking its nose in iran's private affeirs" i'm still waiting to hear them blame it on the jewish zionist concepiracy (and you know they will eventually)
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-06-18 at 04:17. |
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2009-06-18, 05:57 | Link #91 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Just in case you guys don't know, Kham (vocal pun unintended, his name is bloody too long to spell) issued a fatwa making it illegal to stockpile nuclear weapons.
I don't think they will keep to their word since fatwas can be reversed (Salem Rushdie is damn sad though, Khom died and the fatwa just remained there). Quote:
But if it is a civil war, whatever the outcome is, it is going to make Iran more hostile to the world than before. Now that they have nukes, I think it is a bad idea to push for WWIII.
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2009-06-18 at 06:08. |
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2009-06-18, 06:10 | Link #93 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Khamieni and Khomieni. Seriously, if they mess this up, their names are going to be synonymous with "stupid" and "noob" in the coming history books of the future, just like how Bush-ism is pretty much synonymous with "bullcrap" now.
It isn't hard to put together a nuke. The difficult part is the quality control, because if you mess up, everyone dies, not just your enemy.
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2009-06-18, 06:14 | Link #95 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Quote:
Iran collapsing isn't a good idea. As the world's third largest oil producer, its output can seriously damage the world economy just like the 1970s' Oil Embargo. Given how much we are relying on oil as an alternative to gold (investors STOCKPILE oil because it can sell faster than gold when there is a demand as there is a larger market), it can mean WWIII. If US invades Iran, it is the end of its superpower status. Trust me on that.
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2009-06-18, 06:17 | Link #96 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
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putting together a nuke is harder then you make it sound
and they dont want a NUKE they want an arsenal and i doubt the US needs to invade iran they just have to start playing hardball and forcing senction after secnction until the iranian goverment is faced with the choice of giving up its nuke progrem or starting to eat their own dead with obama in power, i dont see it happening
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2009-06-18, 10:24 | Link #97 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PMB Headquarters
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Obama 'deeply troubled' by Iran violence
No doubt about it.. Spoiler for speculation with a lack of knowledge on the recent issue:
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2009-06-18, 10:46 | Link #98 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Quote:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...733635,00.html Spoiler for Iran says thwarted election day bomb plot:
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2009-06-18, 13:43 | Link #99 | |
思想工作
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2009-06-18, 13:51 | Link #100 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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actually its a mix of one and two
get china and russia to agree to the senctions (basiclly give them a better offer then the iranians do) and destroy or disable whatever existing installations they DO have in place NATO isnt likely to do much i agree but the other two options are valid and demonizing israel is what the DO with or without an excuse and world public opinion buys into it regardless to whether or not its true might as well get blamed for what you actually DID (and rob them of their nuke producing ability) then get blamed for stuff ANYWAY and allow them to get nukes judging historiclly, people will condamn you today and thank you tomorrow and that goes for the entire region (most of the arab states are also pissing themselves at the idea of an atomic iran
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