[Manga] Naruto Chapter 527 Discussion

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I enjoyed this chapter. Looks like these guy's are really going to be trouble except that there are a couple flaws in this story.

1# Kinkaku and Ginkaku were swallowed with the weapons (page 5).
In other words they wielded the weapons before which would seemingly be impossible as the Raikage explained.

2# As one mentioned... they lost their souls or definetly a part of it. Yet... they could move.... they lived. Fine it's not based on reality but it makes the case of Orochimaru (losing his arms) actually seem stupid if these random ninja's are unaffected.

Still these two seem to be pretty good. Besides... most of the cloud nin seem to be very strong. I think the subordinates of Killerbee and Darui are probably capable of defeating most of the top jounins in Konoha.

Also... i think the final piece... the final ultimate weapon if the other 4 were or are inside the Kyuubi... might be the necklace that we've seen several times on the Rikkodou Sennin. The same we've seen on Naruto when he gained control over the Kyuubi. He (The R-Sennin) must've made them during his battle with the Jyuubi to seal it.

[Fran~]

The magatama necklace?

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Fran~

The magatama necklace?

Yeah, i don't know what it's called but i'm sure you mean what i mentioned.

[Ero-Senn1n]

It was said somewhere in this chapter that these twins attacked the 2nd hokage (and 2nd raikage) and left him on the verge of death. However it was also said earlier that these two were hunting the hokage and his team (Danzou's flashback) and finally they killed the 2nd hokage. So now which one is it? The 2nd died after Danzou's flashback, but at that time there was no 2nd raikage and no peace agreement stuff. What we know is that the 2nd hokage was dead and not sealed inside this legendary weapon, so either they killed the 2nd hokage with another of their legendary weapons (the 5th weapon which was not revealed yet?) or someone else killed the 2nd hokage. Anyway, they didn't even use the 5th weapon yet and they already rule this fight. BTW this trapping device can conveniently be used by Kishimoto to finally deliver the 1st win for the zombie team without killing the named good guys like Samui. I hope they beat Darui this way, so he can be freed by either Naruto or some kages later, Darui looks like a good kage candidate, if he is released by Naruto that will surely be another one of Naruto's big allies, similarly to Gaara.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Yeah, i don't know what it's called but i'm sure you mean what i mentioned.

the form of the rocks from the necklace are known as Magatama, they are in a lot of mangas (Ikkitousen)



But if you pay attention, RS seems to have some kind of pole at his back. I think that is the one Madara is carrying now:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It was said somewhere in this chapter that these twins attacked the 2nd hokage (and 2nd raikage) and left him on the verge of death. However it was also said earlier that these two were hunting the hokage and his team (Danzou's flashback) and finally they killed the 2nd hokage. So now which one is it? The 2nd died after Danzou's flashback, but at that time there was no 2nd raikage and no peace agreement stuff. What we know is that the 2nd hokage was dead and not sealed inside this legendary weapon, so either they killed the 2nd hokage with another of their legendary weapons (the 5th weapon which was not revealed yet?) or someone else killed the 2nd hokage.

I think that perhaps he died because of the wounds of that battle and not in the battle. Madara said that after his battle against the first he was in a very bad shape.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

It was said somewhere in this chapter that these twins attacked the 2nd hokage (and 2nd raikage) and left him on the verge of death. However it was also said earlier that these two were hunting the hokage and his team (Danzou's flashback) and finally they killed the 2nd hokage. So now which one is it? The 2nd died after Danzou's flashback, but at that time there was no 2nd raikage and no peace agreement stuff. What we know is that the 2nd hokage was dead and not sealed inside this legendary weapon, so either they killed the 2nd hokage with another of their legendary weapons (the 5th weapon which was not revealed yet?) or someone else killed the 2nd hokage. Anyway, they didn't even use the 5th weapon yet and they already rule this fight. BTW this trapping device can conveniently be used by Kishimoto to finally deliver the 1st win for the zombie team without killing the named good guys like Samui. I hope they beat Darui this way, so he can be freed by either Naruto or some kages later, Darui looks like a good kage candidate, if he is released by Naruto that will surely be another one of Naruto's big allies, similarly to Gaara.

I was about to mention it but then again... it was the Raikage who spoke. So i am sure he ment the 2nd Raikage. Not the 2nd Hokage. The lines of you might be the holes, but they don't have to be.

Originally Posted by Fran~

the form of the rocks from the necklace are known as Magatama, they are in a lot of mangas (Ikkitousen)



But if you pay attention, RS seems to have some kind of pole at his back. I think that is the one Madara is carrying now:



Fran~....

Sharp....

Very sharp ... it's definetly a possibilty.


I think that perhaps he died because of the wounds of that battle and not in the battle. Madara said that after his battle against the first he was in a very bad shape.

[Fran~]

About that, i posted this:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...6&postcount=51

The Bansho fan (Bashō-sen; ; ; ) is a mystical fan designed to stoke and control the flames of the magical furnace. It is thought to have been created from the feathers of the Hikui Bird, although this may be untrue as Master Roshi admits it to be a guess. The fan once belonged to Master Roshi (until he threw it away). The Bansho fan has the power to control weather, and is described by Roshi as having the capability to "raise a typhoon with a single wave, a thunderstorm with two, and a monsoon with three."[1] The fan was last seen in the possession of Goku in the last few episodes of Dragon Ball when he once again needed to extinguish the flames of Fire Mountain.

[milan kyuubi]

The only reason I see for this weapons to exist is that sage created them to seal Juubi inside himself. Also How can someone walk and talk after having their soul sucked out? During Nagato's attack/flashback we saw that once your soul(s) is sucked your body 'dies'.

[DeDe]

I am pretty sure the fifth treasure is a jade vase since the other 4 have been exactly like in the story.

Originally Posted by Blaine

Is it just me or does that banana fan or whatever its called that those zombie brothers use look alot a fan naruto is holding on one of the early volume covers (not sure which one ill have to check)

That was Sasuke holding it. I just saw the pic. I doubt it has any significance since it was so long ago.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

You can kind of see how this will play out. Just like in the story, you probably have to beat the demons at their own game and trick them into sealing themselves. That's what the Monkey King did after stealing their treasures. Now what character is smart enough to do that? Also what character can use a fan that might be able to counter the banana fan?

As much I would love for Shikamaru and Temari to take down these guys, they probably haven't moved yet like Fran pointed out. There is even a chance that Shikaku's plan blows up and they have to stay and face the Kages.

The backup only made sense now if we see Darui get sealed. So I expect that to happen. Otherwise it made no sense to give that division so much backup if they were capable of defeating the guys on their own.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by DeDe

I am pretty sure the fifth treasure is a jade vase since the other 4 have been exactly like in the story.

I think the same, but it would be too cheap to take this situation exactly like the book. But it wouldn't be rare.

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

The only reason I see for this weapons to exist is that sage created them to seal Juubi inside himself. Also How can someone walk and talk after having their soul sucked out? During Nagato's attack/flashback we saw that once your soul(s) is sucked your body 'dies'.

perhaps they can't suck all your soul. At least the effect is different in both cases. In this case we first saw some kind of "smoke" without any form. In Pain's case, you can see an "human" form, similar to when Samui body is sucked.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

1# Kinkaku and Ginkaku were swallowed with the weapons (page 5).
In other words they wielded the weapons before which would seemingly be impossible as the Raikage explained.

2# As one mentioned... they lost their souls or definetly a part of it. Yet... they could move.... they lived. Fine it's not based on reality but it makes the case of Orochimaru (losing his arms) actually seem stupid if these random ninja's are unaffected.

Yes, it doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Still these two seem to be pretty good. Besides... most of the cloud nin seem to be very strong. I think the subordinates of Killerbee and Darui are probably capable of defeating most of the top jounins in Konoha.

Darui is not above Kakashi's or Gai's level and strong Konoha ninja can be introduced anytime (as we already know).
Furthermore, we've only seen the top elites of the other villages fight. Let's not forget that the ones introduced were the top two of each village, the ones chosen to protect the Kage and top-class generals.

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Also... i think the final piece... the final ultimate weapon if the other 4 were or are inside the Kyuubi... might be the necklace that we've seen several times on the Rikkodou Sennin. The same we've seen on Naruto when he gained control over the Kyuubi. He (The R-Sennin) must've made them during his battle with the Jyuubi to seal it.

You think he made weapons during battle? I guess everything's possible for him, right? Naruto looks so strange in his new form, especially that necklace made me think that he is the reincarnation of the Rikudou Senin.
My theory is ridiculous and not. I think that both his parents were descendants of the Sage from both bloodlines.

[Akachou]

Let's not forget there are some legendary swordsmen against Copy Ninja Kakashi...

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Yes, it doesn't make sense.


Darui is not above Kakashi's or Gai's level and strong Konoha ninja can be introduced anytime (as we already know).
Furthermore, we've only seen the top elites of the other villages fight. Let's not forget that the ones introduced were the top two of each village, the ones chosen to protect the Kage and top-class generals.

Well... don't misinterpet it if you did. I said ofcourse.. "most".
Still... i really doubt if Kakashi really is better then Darui. With the Sharingan and his (natural) talent is Kakashi the one who probably is better. But overall... i don't know. But... Gai. Gai is strong. But Gai being stronger then the current Kakashi? Hmm. Gai being stronger then Darui? I have to say... no. Gai is definetly one of the best opening more then 6 gates but before that... i'd say Darui wins in the overall.

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

You think he made weapons during battle? I guess everything's possible for him, right? Naruto looks so strange in his new form, especially that necklace made me think that he is the reincarnation of the Rikudou Senin.
My theory is ridiculous and not. I think that both his parents were descendants of the Sage from both bloodlines.

No, i don't think it's ridiculous. Minato being an exceptional gifted killer and Kushina being a more direct decendent to the R-Sennin seems like a reasonable theory. BTW yeah, the necklace caused quite the confusion ...

But i really don't like the fact that each time Naruto trains... each time he learns something.. he learns about the grave dangers when using it. I may be bitching about it (again). However Sasuke never seems to have any problems.. he even has the EMS now to compensate and remove the dangers of using it.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Well... don't misinterpet it if you did. I said ofcourse.. "most".
Still... i really doubt if Kakashi really is better then Darui. With the Sharingan and his (natural) talent is Kakashi the one who probably is better. But overall... i don't know. But... Gai. Gai is strong. But Gai being stronger then the current Kakashi? Hmm. Gai being stronger then Darui? I have to say... no. Gai is definetly one of the best opening more then 6 gates but before that... i'd say Darui wins in the overall.

Kakashi can fight regular ninja without major problems. Even his use of Sharingan has increased. What took most of his chakra using a normal Sharingan in the fight with Zetsu (1) is nothing to the MS techniques he used against Pain in addition to Raikiri, Raiton Bunshin and other spectacular jutsu. It's that Kakashi we have to keep in our heads. Everything from before doesn't matter because there's a new measuring stick for the current part of the story. Even the 3rd Hokage, Orochimaru, Jiraiya and many more were displayed much weaker in part 1 and there was a soft passage to part two of the story.

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

No, i don't think it's ridiculous. Minato being an exceptional gifted killer and Kushina being a more direct decendent to the R-Sennin seems like a reasonable theory. BTW yeah, the necklace caused quite the confusion ...

But i really don't like the fact that each time Naruto trains... each time he learns something.. he learns about the grave dangers when using it. I may be bitching about it (again). However Sasuke never seems to have any problems.. he even has the EMS now to compensate and remove the dangers of using it.

Yeah, yet I still don't really get it because there seem to be three bloodlines...

1. the Senju
2. the Uchiha
3. the Uzumaki

Uzumaki with strong sealing techniques and the Rin'negan (Nagato was confirmed to be an Uzumaki clan member by Madara), Senju and Uchiha are said to be the two descendants.

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

I was about to mention it but then again... it was the Raikage who spoke. So i am sure he ment the 2nd Raikage. Not the 2nd Hokage. The lines of you might be the holes, but they don't have to be.

[james0246]

^While Nagato is said to be a descendent of the Uzumaki Clan, that doesn't necessarily mean he was an Uzumaki. Historically, Clans split all the time, so while Nagato is probably a descendent of the Uzumaki clan, there is no direct evidence that he was in fact an Uzumaki.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

^While Nagato is said to be a descendent of the Uzumaki Clan, that doesn't necessarily mean he was an Uzumaki. Historically, Clans split all the time, so while Nagato is probably a descendent of the Uzumaki clan, there is no direct evidence that he was in fact an Uzumaki.

Red hair - the so-called trademark... and the Rin'negan means his bloodline wasn't thinned out. Naruto's mother came to Konoha at young age and Nagato met Jiraiya when Jiraiya was still young. I don't know if Jiraiya trained Minato or Nagato first and it doesn't matter. Nagato's parents fled to the Hidden Rain, a village with a mixed background and Nagato's parents must have been Uzumaki because else a bloodline limit can't be traded further down and we know nothing but that those two were his real parents which doesn't necessarily mean that they were skilled ninja. The chronological data matches....

[james0246]

^I never claimed they weren't related, nor did I say it wasn't a direct relation. I merely clarified that Nagato has not been confirmed to be a member of the Uzumaki clan, only that he is a descendent of the clan.

For example, say Hinata and Naruto get married. She would then (probably) be a part of the Uzumaki Clan. Their children would, in turn, be Uzumaki. But, they would also be decedents of the Hyuuga clan. (Conversely, Naruto could forsake his mother's name, and become a Namikaze (or a Hyuuga in my example), making his children descendents of the Uzumaki.)

It's ultimately a peripheral detail, but it could be an important point later in the series (depending on how deep Kishimoto wants to go into the Clan issues and genetic histories).

[AuroraFlash]

James, come on...
they all were members of the clan. It's possible that he was born after the clan was extinguished and his parents fled. No matter if that's true or not, he must have been very very young when the clan was slaughtered, so I doubt that he was a real "member" of the clan. It's possible that he was born into either the vital clan or right after the massacre. The latter would explain that stuff with being born into times of turmoil and so on...

It's kind of disgusting that Nagato descended from "the reborn Sage" to "the 3rd of six paths"... like... "You're not the big deal, just part of the puzzle". He's the only one I know so far who became weaker and weaker and weaker, even after he died.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

they all were members of the clan. It's possible that he was born after the clan was extinguished and his parents fled. No matter if that's true or not, he must have been very very young when the clan was slaughtered, so I doubt that he was a real "member" of the clan. It's possible that he was born into either the vital clan or right after the massacre. The latter would explain that stuff with being born into times of turmoil and so on...

Or he and his family could be an off-shoot many generations removed. Simply because he has red hair doesn’t make him Kushina's brother (or other close relation), nor does it make him a close relation to the Uzumaki clan.

Again, it depends on how deep Kishimoto wants the issue to be and whether Nagato's parents were both descended from the Uzumaki Clan or not. (In other words, there is not information to simply say he is Nagato Uzumaki and leave it at that (if that was the case, Kishimoto would have directly stated as such already…unless he simply doesn’t care ).)

[AuroraFlash]

Isn't Madara the same as Kishimoto himself?
In a dream, every person you meet is you. In Naruto, every character you see is Kishimoto.

James, which zodiac are you? Taurus? Capricorn maybe?