Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[Tormenk]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Waaaaaait. The usual formulation is "more than friends, less than lovers". So what kind of relationship does he have with Yuki?

For Inaho the concept of family is probably unique to one individual and therefore only Yuki occupies that spot, so much that perhaps the role of a mother or sister doesn't matter. If you take his teasing scenes with Inko, it's easy to infer he regards her as a sister or perhaps cousin.

Big thanks to Karice for the translations. It's really nice to gather some insight from the people behind the lead trio what they thought of the relationships that went down in the series proper. Greatly appreciated.

[azurestratos]

"Piso’s justice is analogous to the three deaths that conclude the first season of Aldnoah.Zero. ...Though Piso’s justice ends here, Piso’s story goes on. In an unrelated event, Piso is put on trial by the emperor of Rome. However, this trial never occurs as Piso died, with rumors claiming that Piso was poisoned by the emperor. "

Huuh... Piso died... rumors of conspiracy perpetrated by the emperor

This is interesting. I like the similarity.

[Tokkan]

https://twitter.com/BenjaminOscar77/...80223605104640

English dub cast announced.

Inaho: Max Mittelman
Slaine: Zach Aguilar
Asseylum: Erika Harlacher
Rayet: Cristina Vee
Inko: Erica Mendez
Calm: Bryce Papenbrook
Nina: Christine Marie Cabanos
Yuki: Erica Lindbeck
Marito: Matt Mercer

Edit:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ibFyp9SGcTE

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Okisuke: Bobby Thong
Magbaredge: Julie Ann Taylor
Eddelrittuo: Sandy Fox
Cruhteo: Lex Lang
Saazbaum: Kirk Thornton
Matsuribi: Kyle McCarley
Tsumugi: Lucien Dodge

[carmolita]

All of the voices sound great or match up pretty well with the Japanese characters except for the one for inaho... Nothing against the voice actor, I'm sure he is a great actor .. He just doesn't capture the spirit of the character who is suppose to be straight forward, decisive, assertive, doesn't have much to say and somewhat emotionless.

[Syaokura]

Yeah... Inaho's voice is the only one I'm iffy on. The rest of the cast in the dub trailer sounds either super fantastic or okay.

[John117xCortana]

So to recap what are the tactics demonstrated throughout the series to deal with things like those Funnel copycats?

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

So to recap what are the tactics demonstrated throughout the series to deal with things like those Funnel copycats?

Tactic Slaine used;
Trap the funnels in a closed space. Bunch them up and shoot them down.
Works great with Tharsis foresight + rapid fire guns.

Tactic UFE used;
The funnels flying automated, but it only targets enemies set by the pilot.
Set a person/group as bait, and lure them into an ambush.
Ambush team then fires at the funnels from behind. Higher hit chance.


I'm trying to think of an original tactic but I'm not a tactical genius like eggs-kun.

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Tactic Slaine used;
Trap the funnels in a closed space. Bunch them up and shoot them down.
Works great with Tharsis foresight + rapid fire guns.

Tactic UFE used;
The funnels flying automated, but it only targets enemies set by the pilot.
Set a person/group as bait, and lure them into an ambush.
Ambush team then fires at the funnels from behind. Higher hit chance.


I'm trying to think of an original tactic but I'm not a tactical genius like eggs-kun.

Okay. What else you got?

The tactics displayed in the show were...well they were mocking Gundam.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Okay. What else you got?

The tactics displayed in the show were...well they were mocking Gundam.

Exactly how are they mocking Gundam in regards to the funnels?

Also, have you seen the actual Mobile Suit Gundam series from 1979? Amuro (the MC) actually uses strategy, tactics and cooperation with the White Base team against more powerful enemy Mobile Suits (not unlike what Inaho did). So where is the mocking exactly? If you meant Inaho and friends use more elaborate and precise tactics then that's not really mocking, but the product of its respective era (look at the old Star Trek show compared to nowadays sci-fi shows).

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

https://twitter.com/BenjaminOscar77/...80223605104640

English dub cast announced.

Inaho: Max Mittelman
Slaine: Zach Aguilar
Asseylum: Erika Harlacher
Rayet: Cristina Vee
Inko: Erica Mendez
Calm: Bryce Papenbrook
Nina: Christine Marie Cabanos
Yuki: Erica Lindbeck
Marito: Matt Mercer

Edit:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ibFyp9SGcTE

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Okisuke: Bobby Thong
Magbaredge: Julie Ann Taylor
Eddelrittuo: Sandy Fox
Cruhteo: Lex Lang
Saazbaum: Kirk Thornton
Matsuribi: Kyle McCarley
Tsumugi: Lucien Dodge

The only voice I have a problem with is Inaho's. Other than that everyone's else voices fits them more or less.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

Okay. What else you got?

The tactics displayed in the show were...well they were mocking Gundam.

I get that feeling too. The fights were a homage, and parody.

The one I like the most is plasma sword/Argyre. Other characters called it laser sword; a throwback to beam sabers of Gundam etc.
A/Z then cleverly mocks this, showing us such that

1. such a powerful weapon could easily be countered with; sea water.

2. such overpowered weapon requires a BS amount of energy or energy source, hence Aldnoah Drive.

Now imagine all those Gundams that had used beam sabers underwater with no repercussion, & without giant battery packs, its unreal.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

..

What tactics did Amuro used in Gundam? Can you share the video/episode no. for us that have not seen it?

[John117xCortana]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Exactly how are they mocking Gundam in regards to the funnels?

Also, have you seen the actual Mobile Suit Gundam series from 1979? Amuro (the MC) actually uses strategy, tactics and cooperation with the White Base team against more powerful enemy Mobile Suits (not unlike what Inaho did). So where is the mocking exactly? If you meant Inaho and friends use more elaborate and precise tactics then that's not really mocking, but the product of its respective era (look at the old Star Trek show compared to nowadays sci-fi shows).

In Gundam we commonly see ( especially the later series) the over specialized super prototypes dominate the field and slaughter the grunts. In Aldnoah Zero they show us how the grunts take down the super prototype units by taking advantage of their weaknesses. They even show us how to deal with the the common things we always see in Gundam like those funnels.

[azurestratos]

Tactics used against funnels in Gundam series; (by my most recent memories)

Gundam Unicorn
Episode 1
Ksyathria used funnels to completely overpower 2 Earth special forces Jegans, but their leader using Stark Jegan rushed through the funnel lasers to engage Ksyathria in close combat with beam sabers.
Some people said the close combat prevent Ksyathria using funnels due to risk of hitting itself. Ksyathria still wins close combat tho.
Later Episodes
Gundam Unicorn overpowers Ksyathria funnels with psychic magic. No tactics here.


Gundam Seed / Destiny
No tactics. Mainly involves the pilot guessing and shooting the funnels.
Helps if the pilot;
1. Go into Seed Mode and become super accurate at shooting.
2. Have gundam that can shoot 5-12 lasers in different directions simultaneously.

Gundam 00
No tactics. Same as GSEED, its just aim and shoot.
Helps if the pilot;
1. Have a gundam that can go Trans Am, become 3x faster and increased weapon power.

Gundam Wing
I don't remember them having funnels.

Gundam O8th MS Team
The best Gundam imo. No funnels.

Ones I didn't cover:
Gundam (original)
Gundam Zeta series
Gundam Turn A
Gundam Age
Gundam Reco
others...

[John117xCortana]

Yeah not a lot of tactics shown.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

I get that feeling too. The fights were a homage, and parody.

The one I like the most is plasma sword/Argyre. Other characters called it laser sword; a throwback to beam sabers of Gundam etc.
A/Z then cleverly mocks this, showing us such that

1. such a powerful weapon could easily be countered with; sea water.

2. such overpowered weapon requires a BS amount of energy or energy source, hence Aldnoah Drive.

Now imagine all those Gundams that had used beam sabers underwater with no repercussion, & without giant battery packs, its unreal.

1. Gundam series already addressed that any beam weapons' efficiency are greatly reduced under a good amount of water. Do not blame the Gundam franchise if Argyre "beam sword" is weaker and can easily beaten by water.
2. Well duh, of course they require an insane amount of energy as mentioned in the series itself. The Zeon forces were even stunned by it the moment they see it. If you can buy the Aldnoah "BS" (your own word) as a source of energy, there's no reason not to buy that Gundams (and other MS that have beam sabers) possess equal energy to produce beam sabers. That's what suspension of disbelief is for when we enjoy sci-fi action series.

Originally Posted by azurestratos

What tactics did Amuro used in Gundam? Can you share the video/episode no. for us that have not seen it?

From the top of my head, I can name a few such as: attacking from the direction of the sun when they ambushed the Zeon ships on the moon to Amuro & Ryu’s advantage, using the immobile Guntank as a remote cannon to fight off Ramba Ral’s forces, Amuro & Sayla using G-Armor combination to fight off Goggs, Amuro customizing the beam saber into beam javelin during the fight with Garma Zabi’s squad, Amuro using White Base to catapult his core fighter to ask for backup to the EFF when surrounded by Zeon forces, and so on.

If you want me to list the episode numbers then you’ll have to wait as I’m not a super-fanatic that remembers the content of all 43 episodes of MSG series in my head. Also, I’m a working family-man that most of the times have more urgent matters to attend to than carrying out your demand. So yeah, I already provided you the essentials, if you still want more “solid proofs” then (again) you’ll have to wait when I have the time for it. Feel free to remind me whenever you feel like it.

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

In Gundam we commonly see ( especially the later series) the over specialized super prototypes dominate the field and slaughter the grunts. In Aldnoah Zero they show us how the grunts take down the super prototype units by taking advantage of their weaknesses. They even show us how to deal with the the common things we always see in Gundam like those funnels.

First: In many Gundam series, the “super duper prototype” usually only have the advantage in the beginning before the enemy came up with a slew of superior Mobile Suits & Mobile Armors (see MSG, Zeta, ZZ, Victory, 08th MS Team, Gundam 0083, etc). When it comes to that, the good guys often relied to MC’s superior piloting ability more than the superior mechas.

Second: The battle-ready superior prototypes in Gundam series usually don’t have glaring weaknesses (like in Aldnoah) aside from being too expensive to be mass produced (which makes more sense than a fully produced/operational mecha with glaring weakness running around in the battle).

Third: Funnels are originally used by the enemies of Gundams that the MCs must learn how to beat by improving their reflexes. Let me mention a few of Gundam’s notable mecha enemies that use funnels: Elmeth, Qubeley, Sazabi, Kshatriya, Providence Gundam, Gundam Throne Zwei, Farsia, etc. It helps that the ones operating those funnels know what they are doing and not only rely on their funnels to fight (except for Elmeth, the very first prototype using funnels, coz it comes with some MS guards or Char himself protecting it since Zeon is not stupid enough to let funnel-only MA fights alone)

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

...

When I asked about tactics, I meant tactics against funnels. That's the topic. So what are those tactics?

Next, about Argyre/Gundam beam sabers;

1. Beam sabers have enough heat to melt armor steel, it will cause steam explosion underwater. Gundam would explode the moment they use beam sabers underwater.

2. Aldnoah Drive (aka BS Drive) is intentional mockery of Gundam powers and others. That's the point really. Which leads to another point;

Vers Kats/Gundams, even with their BS Drive and powers, are still slave to science and can be beaten with tactics by grunts.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

When I asked about tactics, I meant tactics against funnels. That's the topic. So what are those tactics?

Oh about that funnels, Amuro’s solution is simple: as he fought the Elmeth alone, he is improving his Newtype reflexes and read the movement-pattern of the Elmeth’s funnels based on how Lalah controlling them. So he anticipated the angles & spots where the funnels will go to and shoot his beam riffle to those spots as a pre-emptive attacks and finally able to hit those funnels.

See, unlike Inaho’s battles, Amuro doesn’t have the luxury of decent backup or closed space when he fought Lalah/Elmeth. So he can’t really trap the funnels in a closed space, bunch them up and shoot them down since Amuro is fighting in a vast vacuum of space. Elmeth’s funnels are also more effective in space controlled by Lalah’s psychommu wave. And Lalah is certainly a smarter pilot than that chuunibyou female Mars Knight that treat her funnels like her children and get mad when they are taken down .

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Next, about Argyre/Gundam beam sabers;

1. Beam sabers have enough heat to melt armor steel, it will cause steam explosion underwater. Gundam would explode the moment they use beam sabers underwater.

2. Aldnoah Drive (aka BS Drive) is intentional mockery of Gundam powers and others. That's the point really. Which leads to another point;

Vers Kats/Gundams, even with their BS Drive and powers, are still slave to science and can be beaten with tactics by grunts.

See my comment above about “suspension of disbelief” for sci-fi action show. You seem to condemn beam saber as one of the greatest sin to science ever done by Gundam franchise and hailed Aldnoah like the renaissance of mecha anime that works solely based on logic and authentic physics, when Aldnoah still have sound traveling freely in the vacuum of space (among other flawed physics that many have addressed back in episodic threads. Dear lord, I’m not going back to those). It looks like you need a reality-check. At the end of the day, both Gundam & Aldnoah (and other mecha animes) are all just silly shows where giant robots beat each other with fancy light-show.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

...

Gundam (original)
No tactics used against funnels. Just guessing and shoot them down.
Helps if;
1. the pilot have Newtype abilities that can predict future,


So that settles that.



Sounds in space can be given logical excuse, such as computer generated.
Its not game changing BS with big effect to power balance or plot.
Star Wars style beam saber is guilty pleasure sin, and that's what A/Z is mocking.
They are powers the storywriters make it seem like the ultimate, when in fact they have exploitable weaknesses.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Gundam (original)
No tactics used against funnels. Just guessing and shoot them down.
Helps if;
1. the pilot have Newtype abilities that can predict future,

So that settles that.

If you think reading and learning enemy’s movements and use them to predict where the enemy goes next and put it to good use is not tactic then I think you lack understanding of what tactic really is. You can read this for help. In Amuro's case, the learning process is many times faster thanks to Amuro’s Newtype ability, but it’s still a tactic and skill of his to deal with the fast-moving funnels, alone, in the vast vacuum of space with no backup. It's smart.

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Sounds in space can be given logical excuse, such as computer generated.
Its not game changing BS with big effect to power balance or plot.

Now you're just making petty excuses for physics fault in your beloved series. Throughout the second season, it is clear that the sound are not just computer generated. Even the beam, laser, and missiles have their own sound as they travel the vacuum before hitting their target. And the freakin' explosions also produce sound.

Originally Posted by azurestratos

Star Wars style beam saber is guilty pleasure sin, and that's what A/Z is mocking.
They are powers the storywriters make it seem like the ultimate, when in fact they have exploitable weaknesses.

Again, suspension of disbelief. Giant-humanlike-bipedal war machines like Sleipnir is also very inefficient in atmospheric combat (be it land, sea, or air) in real life, but Aldnoah still went with it.

[azurestratos]

Originally Posted by John117xCortana

In Gundam we commonly see ( especially the later series) the over specialized super prototypes dominate the field and slaughter the grunts. In Aldnoah Zero they show us how the grunts take down the super prototype units by taking advantage of their weaknesses. They even show us how to deal with the the common things we always see in Gundam like those funnels.

I agree with this.
A/Z shows how grunt tactics can still overcome technological superiority.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

...

Learning and guessing the enemy, is a basic action used in many things.
The simple act of aiming a gun uses these.
Learning and guessing the enemy is more a type of skill. Not tactic.

This is how I define it;
Skill; ability to do something (ex. learning, shooting, guessing, thinking, etc.)
Tactics; procedure or maneuver of using resources to achieve goals

Resources; sources that can be drawn upon (ex. skill, knowledge, hardware, manpower,etc.)
Goals; result or achievement that effort is directed.


Also I don't see why a computer can't generate sounds. As long as something can be detected, its possible for computer can play whatever sounds to aid the pilot.

Also, know the difference between "suspension of disbelief" and "flat-out against science/impossible".

Beam sabers is not "flat-out against science" but the use underwater without explosion is.

By then its no longer science-fiction, but science-fantasy.
Quote wiki: Distinguishing between science fiction and fantasy, Rod Serling claimed that the former was "the improbable made possible" while the latter was "the impossible made probable".