AnimeSuki Forums

Xellos-_^ · 2012-08-21, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

None that I know of. If you could do that you'd be putting an awful lot of game designers out of a job.

i think it would be like the novel, a lot of independent MMOG would prop on the net.

Clarste · 2012-08-21, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

I don't think so.... or at least not yet.

As long as ideas need to be put into code. (Not even the <<The Seed>> has gotten to do that; even the idea for the <<Excalibur>> story came to be because the admins were probably putting lots of "stories" into the ALO server.

I'm pretty sure they didn't input any stories at all. Cardinal just looked them up on the net. It did its own research, wrote its own story, added its own dialog and voice acting...

Yeah, that's basically a true AI. Nowhere near possible for now.

ronelm2000 · 2012-08-21, 07:30

It IS said in the Novel that all "AIs" used in <<The Seed>> or any of its precursors use <<Top-Bottom AI>>, which is a result of manual input.

Clarste · 2012-08-21, 08:15

That's not what the distinction means. A Top-down AI is one that was programmed to deal with a variety of situations, as opposed to a Bottom-up one that learns from nothing. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the input data comes from post-programming. It's trivial to make an AI that looks stuff up on the internet. Google's search algorithm itself could be considered a version of that. Although of course it's much harder to make it do something useful with that.

ronelm2000 · 2012-08-21, 08:40

Well, in the first place it is hard for an AI to look up stuff for itself. Where will it get stories? HOW will it divide stories? How does it identify who the protagonist, antagonist, and side characters are? How does their actions translate into machine-understandable code?

...as for <<Top-Down AI>>, how will it deal with the first situation it'll encounter? Won't it simply be dumped into the database and process the data from there?

Clarste · 2012-08-21, 11:35

It'll just do what it's programmed to do. That's what the term means. Someone sat down and wrote a complicated logic-gate for how it handles situations. If it encounters a novel situation that it doesn't know how to deal with, it would probably just ignore it or do whatever it's programmed to do in novel situations (ask for help?). "Top-down" means that a programmer decided on how it should behave in all situations. It doesn't mean that a programmer is sitting behind it telling it what to do at all points in time. It's the standard AI in a computer game or a GPS. It knows how to solve problems efficiently, but doesn't have the ability to grow very much. Commonly known as an "expert system". It's theoretically possible to make one that can react to a huge amount of input, but it's practically impossible because it's too complicated.

lightbringer · 2012-08-21, 20:22

To me, bottom-up AI sounds a lot like the current (since like 20 years ago now) "state of the art" AI - neural networks, genetic algorithms, etc. They have their uses but they are not nearly at the stage where we can call them intelligent or thinking independently though.

Netto Azure · 2012-08-23, 02:44

Oh crap I feel so bad for the Fluctlight clones...if AI's think they are humans....crap the implications are quite scary.

Divini · 2012-08-24, 01:14

One part piqued my curiosity: Every entity would try to defend their individuality in terms of existence as much as possible, and that you would try to eliminate an exact copy of you.

While I did get chills when they started talking about the fluctlights' mental collapse, I was wondering how I would feel if the fluctlight clone that 'died' was me, instead of seeing it from an outside perspective.

I'm scared to admit it, but I think I wouldn't feel nearly as bad. In fact, I think I would feel relieved in a way.

ronelm2000 · 2012-08-26, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divini

One part piqued my curiosity: Every entity would try to defend their individuality in terms of existence as much as possible, and that you would try to eliminate an exact copy of you.

While I did get chills when they started talking about the fluctlights' mental collapse, I was wondering how I would feel if the fluctlight clone that 'died' was me, instead of seeing it from an outside perspective.

I'm scared to admit it, but I think I wouldn't feel nearly as bad. In fact, I think I would feel relieved in a way.

I merely think that RATH chooses all the wrong victims. I mean... they should have tried cloning someone more...worthless, you know?

Clrawne · 2014-08-29, 16:37

Is there anyone who finished reading the volume 14?
I want to know your opinion about the last part of it.

Is there anyone familiar with Oculus Rift?

:3

c933103 · 2014-08-30, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

Well, in the first place it is hard for an AI to look up stuff for itself. Where will it get stories? HOW will it divide stories? How does it identify who the protagonist, antagonist, and side characters are? How does their actions translate into machine-understandable code?

...as for <<Top-Down AI>>, how will it deal with the first situation it'll encounter? Won't it simply be dumped into the database and process the data from there?

Top-down AI: take yui as an example.

2012-08-23, 02:44	Link #128
Netto Azure → Wandering Bard Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Grancel City, Liberl Kingdom	Oh crap I feel so bad for the Fluctlight clones...if AI's think they are humans....crap the implications are quite scary. __________________ «Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC» PokeCommuninity \| Bulbagarden \| Tumblr \| MAL

2012-08-21, 08:15	Link #124
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	That's not what the distinction means. A Top-down AI is one that was programmed to deal with a variety of situations, as opposed to a Bottom-up one that learns from nothing. It has absolutely nothing to do with where the input data comes from post-programming. It's trivial to make an AI that looks stuff up on the internet. Google's search algorithm itself could be considered a version of that. Although of course it's much harder to make it do something useful with that.

2012-08-21, 11:35	Link #126
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	It'll just do what it's programmed to do. That's what the term means. Someone sat down and wrote a complicated logic-gate for how it handles situations. If it encounters a novel situation that it doesn't know how to deal with, it would probably just ignore it or do whatever it's programmed to do in novel situations (ask for help?). "Top-down" means that a programmer decided on how it should behave in all situations. It doesn't mean that a programmer is sitting behind it telling it what to do at all points in time. It's the standard AI in a computer game or a GPS. It knows how to solve problems efficiently, but doesn't have the ability to grow very much. Commonly known as an "expert system". It's theoretically possible to make one that can react to a huge amount of input, but it's practically impossible because it's too complicated.

2012-08-21, 20:22	Link #127
lightbringer M9000 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SBC Gurokken	To me, bottom-up AI sounds a lot like the current (since like 20 years ago now) "state of the art" AI - neural networks, genetic algorithms, etc. They have their uses but they are not nearly at the stage where we can call them intelligent or thinking independently though.

2012-08-24, 01:14	Link #129
Divini Senpai! Join Date: Mar 2007	One part piqued my curiosity: Every entity would try to defend their individuality in terms of existence as much as possible, and that you would try to eliminate an exact copy of you. While I did get chills when they started talking about the fluctlights' mental collapse, I was wondering how I would feel if the fluctlight clone that 'died' was me, instead of seeing it from an outside perspective. I'm scared to admit it, but I think I wouldn't feel nearly as bad. In fact, I think I would feel relieved in a way.

2014-08-29, 16:37	Link #131
Clrawne Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Philippines, Metro Manila	Is there anyone who finished reading the volume 14? I want to know your opinion about the last part of it. Is there anyone familiar with Oculus Rift? :3