Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

ooh, don't bring that up again.. i blame the poor writing in Destiny for portraying them like that. its shown in the special edition that they do hug... i would say that Lacus was my third character love... haha

So, no less than two three post-series ret-cons later and they still can't put anything resembling a real relationship between the two?

(Seriously, hugging? That's it? Kira screwed Flay, Athrun pretty much proposed to Cagelli, even Shinn got his gropes in, and all Kira and Lacus get is a hug, probably with naughty bits five feet apart?)

i do respect Flay and Kira in the sense that they had enough of a relationship to warrant a "soul bonding," but the shinn and Stellar was painful to watch..

Indeed, though for me it was more at the thought of Shinn 'protecting' her. Child-minded or not, she's got a bigger body-count then you, Shinn. Consider who should be protecting who here...

[Rising Dragon]

Yeah, I didn't particularly like how the whole Kira/Lacus thing turned out. Kira and Flay got all of the development... and then they just kill Flay and toss Lacus in.

[germanturkey]

Kira and Lacus' development was a lot more subtle than Kira and Flay's. while the latter was shown a lot more on screen, much of the former took place off screen. it was basically the time they spent together in the off time that solidified their relationship. plus Flay was only a level or two more stable than Stellar, so that counts against her...

Rising Dragon, seeing as you're a Shirley fan like me, i can see where you're coming from, but ShirleyxLelouch was given much more development than KiraxFlay..

besides, i'm used to slow moving relationships. another series i follow has this relationship that hasn't progressed since 1988... its part of what keeps you coming back for more, the chance that they'll show development.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

Kira and Lacus' development was a lot more subtle than Kira and Flay's. while the latter was shown a lot more on screen, much of the former took place off screen. it was basically the time they spent together in the off time that solidified their relationship.

The non-physical, non-sexual, non-intimate relationship?

plus Flay was only a level or two more stable than Stellar, so that counts against her...

Hardly. Stellar was a unbalanced girl with the mind of a child and who went into convulsions at the prospect of death. Flay was a entirely sane, if incredibly racist, girl who wanted an entire species to pay for killing her father. That's twisted but hardly 'only a level or two more'.

besides, i'm used to slow moving relationships. another series i follow has this relationship that hasn't progressed since 1988... its part of what keeps you coming back for more, the chance that they'll show development.

Hate to break it to you, but if you've been waiting for over a fifth of a century for a relationship to develop...

[zalem]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

(Seriously, hugging? That's it? Kira screwed Flay, Athrun pretty much proposed to Cagelli, even Shinn got his gropes in, and all Kira and Lacus get is a hug, probably with naughty bits five feet apart?)

The non-physical, non-sexual, non-intimate relationship?

We don't need to see them screwing on-screen to prove they have a strong relationship. And saying there was no physical contact is an extreme exaggeration. They did hug, several times. In GSD they acted perfectly like a couple even if we didn't get to see kissing. I don't need to see more explicit things to recognize them as a couple. Their behavior and feelings towards one another was enough confirmation.

I do bemoan the fact that they didn't get enough screentime and that it seems their relationship began off-screen. I would have loved to have seen how things started.

[germanturkey]

the series i was alluding to was A!MG. You hardly see any physical development between Bell and Keiichi, but their relationship is a lot stronger than pretty much any other anime relationship out there. Its not too hard to see that Kira and Lacus share this same type of connection.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

So, no less than two three post-series ret-cons later and they still can't put anything resembling a real relationship between the two?

(Seriously, hugging? That's it? Kira screwed Flay, Athrun pretty much proposed to Cagelli, even Shinn got his gropes in, and all Kira and Lacus get is a hug, probably with naughty bits five feet apart?)
Indeed, though for me it was more at the thought of Shinn 'protecting' her. Child-minded or not, she's got a bigger body-count then you, Shinn. Consider who should be protecting who here...

I should point out that Flay didn't love Kira when they had sex, the sex between Kira and Flay nothing more than two teenagers having sex. It was during the time that Flay was manipulating Kira so that he would take down as many coordinators as possible before Kira dies himself.

[germanturkey]

so i watched some more SEED, and i can honestly say that Flay is only a step or two more stable than Stellar... during ep 30 when Kira and Athrun are killing each other, she's just lying down on her bed shaking and giggling creeply..

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

I should point out that Flay didn't love Kira when they had sex, the sex between Kira and Flay nothing more than two teenagers having sex. It was during the time that Flay was manipulating Kira so that he would take down as many coordinators as possible before Kira dies himself.

Then? Of course not: she was a grieving girl who decided to manipulate Kira to kill coordinators through what few means she had available. But you don't have to love eachother to have a relationship, and they did have a relationship that was far more developed and concrete over the course of the series than Kira and Lacus had over all of Destiny.

[germanturkey]

it was more developed on screen, but it wasn't by any means as deep as the one people can assume grew between Lacus and Kira in the years between SEED and Destiny.

[Rising Dragon]

Assuming a relationship is deep doesn't work if you don't actually see anything happening to show how deep it is.

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Assuming a relationship is deep if you don't actually see anything happening to show how deep it is.

you can't expect them not to have grown closer though. it defies logic if you choose to think that. Like you don't see Keiichi and Bell get any closer, but its known that the relationship is there.

[Saga_CE]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

you can't expect them not to have grown closer though. it defies logic if you choose to think that.

We're talking about Cosmic Era.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by Saga_CE

We're talking about Cosmic Era.

I'd rather say it's a Gundam series. It's a Japanese anime. One has to deal with the fact that it almost always tends to defy logic.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Well, remember one thing. Lacus and co in Destiny didn't do anything to solve the problems that started the war in the first place. Naturals hate coordinators for both being so superior and for continuing to drop death from space, coordinators still fear for their lives and look down on the naturals, and making money from weapons is still profitable.

Yes. This is one of the reasons why the Cosmic Era universe remains fetile ground for new works.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Pretty much like the aftereffects of the first war, in other words, except this time there was a clear loser: the Earth, which Durandle trounced at every turn. Lacus claimed more power over the Earth than anyone else since who knows when, but she still didn't solve any of the problems that Durandle nearly did.

Not quite. Leaving aside what Durandal actually accomplished, Lacus' influence is still limited to PLANT. She is a relative unknown to the rest of the world (well, about as unknown as a world leader can be anyways ).

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Unfortunately, that likely means yet ANOTHER war with Earthlings acting as petty and narrow-minded bumbling idiots...

While it's quite possible that they're going to go for the same kind of direction again, there's a decent chance that the creators have something a little different in mind. They did try to do something new for Destiny, and while they weren't entirely successful, I hope that they try something new yet again.

Originally Posted by epyon96

It sounds like the consensus is Lacus is going to be one tough girlfriend. Quite a contrast from that innocent girl image she tried to put across in Seed.

I'm not sure where you get this idea from. Lacus is perhaps the major character that was changed the least throughout the course of Seed/Destiny.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

So, no less than two three post-series ret-cons later and they still can't put anything resembling a real relationship between the two?

(Seriously, hugging? That's it? Kira screwed Flay, Athrun pretty much proposed to Cagelli, even Shinn got his gropes in, and all Kira and Lacus get is a hug, probably with naughty bits five feet apart?)
Indeed, though for me it was more at the thought of Shinn 'protecting' her. Child-minded or not, she's got a bigger body-count then you, Shinn. Consider who should be protecting who here...

You can blame this on the Japanese fandom. Lacus is viewed as a "pure" character, and there would be a storm of reaction if she were to be "sullied". Witness the stupidity over the speculation whether Nagi from Kannagi had any prior relationships.

[tetsuo69]

damn i really want to see the movie if there gonna be one ^__^

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by tetsuo69

damn i really want to see the movie if there gonna be one ^__^

Same here, I hope the news about the movie is true

About Lacus X Kira, just a little off topic, the director could have built a strong development without kissing in GSD...all it had to do was when they lived together and took care of orphan, Lacus yelled at Kira:

"you should squeeze toothpaste from the bottom"
or
"How many times do I have to clean (insert subjects) for you"

etc

tada, then we would have seen a big development without any kissing or hugging XD

[hero147]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Same here, I hope the news about the movie is true

About Lacus X Kira, just a little off topic, the director could have built a strong development without kissing in GSD...all it had to do was when they lived together and took care of orphan, Lacus yelled at Kira:

"you should squeeze toothpaste from the bottom"
or
"How many times do I have to clean (insert subjects) for you"

etc

tada, then we would have seen a big development without any kissing or hugging XD

I really...really...really want to see a kiss between Kira and Lacus! Not just a kiss on the cheek either. If the movie does come out, I hope they would incorporate something LacusxKira related.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by hero147

I really...really...really want to see a kiss between Kira and Lacus! Not just a kiss on the cheek either. If the movie does come out, I hope they would incorporate something LacusxKira related.

There's almost certainly going to be something, even if only because the Japanese fans demand it, but I don't think that there will be very much in the way of explicit displays of affection. It'll probably still be largely subtext.

Originally Posted by justavisitor

About Lacus X Kira, just a little off topic, the director could have built a strong development without kissing in GSD...all it had to do was when they lived together and took care of orphan, Lacus yelled at Kira:

"you should squeeze toothpaste from the bottom"
or
"How many times do I have to clean (insert subjects) for you"

What they did instead was to simply show how comfortable the two were with one another. On top of that, we did see more overt feelings from time to time. In a way, I prefer that to the more domestic scenarios you point out. Moreover, it'd be uncharacteristic for Lacus to act that way - she knows how to train men very well !

[germanturkey]

if the movie is good (and does a good job developing them), i wouldn't be surprised if both Kira and Lacus won the Animage awards again. if you look back, they were both so popular.

but yeah. a real kiss would be nice...