Shingeki no Kyojin (Attack on Titan) - Manga discussion

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Helius

Did it even occur to Eren to ask just one simple question - "Who the f*ck are you guys?"

He probably wouldn't have gotten any coherent or comprehensible answer, or someone would have interrupted that just like Reiner interrupted Ymir when she was about to say who is the enemy.

[Helius]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

He probably wouldn't have gotten any coherent or comprehensible answer, or someone would have interrupted that just like Reiner interrupted Ymir when she was about to say who is the enemy.

But that's the point, isn't it? Eren's thinking about how he can get out of the situation and by asking the obvious questions he could've guaged their intentions and what they're hiding by how they respond. That's how you would conduct an interrogation/negotiation, by starting with the simple, logical questions and adjust your approach based on the way the person responds/reacts. After 40+ pages of dialogue they're right back to ".......well I'm thirsty"... yeah, a really constructive exchange there, Eren ol' boy.

[Pen3]

Christa is one lucky girl to have multiple titans protecting her.

[Avrorrange]

I have no idea why the f@ck did they even start a conversation if there's no meaningful discussion. Author wasted a complete chapter. Hajime Isayama=troll/eoten.

[Kanon]

I can hardly believe this was 45 pages long. Such a long conversation and yet absolutely nothing new was revealed. They just kept beating around the bush. This was really frustrating. Now it's obvious we won't get answers anytime soon.

[Breimoon]

a whole month and we still don't know who this monkey is. I'm dyng to know...........

[Bookworm365]

If you missed the contents this chapter has, then it's your fault. Bscause including myself I've seen a lot of forums satisfied with the chapter and going crazy with the speculations.

Here's one thing I found interesting.
Ymir refers to the ape titan as the "monkey". Bert and Ryner doesn't react to that despite seeing the monkey. Were they faking? or is it because they didn't recognise the titan as a "monkey"? or is it just beacuse they don't know what a "monkey" is?(Just like how Ryner didn't have a idea what a herring was).
Eren didn't see the monkey and doesn't seem to know external creatures like a monkey.

this is a small thing, but a very detailed conversation. There was a whole lot more.
Isayama is carefully putting things together. Don't skip through his effort and waste your monthly pacience.

[ReddyRedWolf]

If I'm reading this right...

Holy crap all that is a lot of collateral damage just to get one Monkey! Eren is right these guys are mass murderers.

Ymir and the Titan Trio come different groups from outside the walls.

I think Ymir may be explorers from outside the continent. But whatever pathogen or plague that made Titans affected her crew.

This is why Bert and Reiner recognize her Titan form. She almost ate them as kids. But Ymir managed to control herself from being a mindless human eater turning to a shifter.

Her follower that talked to a Legion Scout? Not so lucky in keeping his humanity.

The Titan Trio's tribe is at war with the Monkey's faction. Their war reached the border of the walls.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

The Titan Trio's tribe is at war with the Monkey's faction. Their war reached the border of the walls.

But they were happy when they saw the ape titan. Why would they be happy to see a powerful enemy coming into the picture?

What is almost certain is that the fact that he appeared is connected to Reiner and Berthold sudden decision to go back to their homeland. Let's disregard Reiner who is completely crazy at this point, I'm talking about chapter 42 when we see an unexpectedly cheerful Berthold screaming "That's right! We can go back to our home village now!"

Why would he say that so suddenly? It wasn't because there was a perfect chance to kidnap Eren and escape. See what Berthold says later with a shocked expression "Reiner! Are you going to do it?! Here?! Right now?!" Obviously that wasn't what he was thinking.

It must be like Ymir guessed. If they follow the ape titan they will be able to return home. Or at least that's what they believe.

[richardtengcy]

I kind of learn a lots of thing from the chapters......

1) Regeneration took longer time when they are in human form
2) Regeneration also consumes their individual stamina thus making it unable to hold their titan form for too long.
3) Stamina can be restore by resting properly...usually sleeps/food
4) The titans that was release by the Ape Titan are clearly different from the other typical titans as they are pretty active at night whereas most doesn`t
5) There's no way to win against a horde/swarm of Titans even for a colossal Titan
6) Reiner has mental/personality disorder
7) Ymir may be executed if brought back to Reiner/Bertholt/Annie village
8) It seems to be clear that there are different faction/clans of Titans
9) Not 100% sure but it seems true that there's a limit to how many time they can shapeshift to a Titan....probably due to the danger of becoming a mindless Titan.
10) Christa is probably an important key figure in reuniting the different Titan clan
11) Reiner seriously likes/love Christa

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

I kind of learn a lots of thing from the chapters......

1) Regeneration took longer time when they are in human form
2) Regeneration also consumes their individual stamina thus making it unable to hold their titan form for too long.
3) Stamina can be restore by resting properly...usually sleeps/food
4) The titans that was release by the Ape Titan are clearly different from the other typical titans as they are pretty active at night whereas most doesn`t
5) There's no way to win against a horde/swarm of Titans even for a colossal Titan
6) Reiner has mental/personality disorder
7) Ymir may be executed if brought back to Reiner/Bertholt/Annie village
8) It seems to be clear that there are different faction/clans of Titans
9) Not 100% sure but it seems true that there's a limit to how many time they can shapeshift to a Titan....probably due to the danger of becoming a mindless Titan.
10) Christa is probably an important key figure in reuniting the different Titan clan
11) Reiner seriously likes/love Christa

Many of those things were already hinted. And all we got are additional hints, not clear confirmations.

Also the colossal titan most likely can't even walk, even if it could defeat all the titans around, it would be of little use.

[Graydient]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I can hardly believe this was 45 pages long. Such a long conversation and yet absolutely nothing new was revealed. They just kept beating around the bush. This was really frustrating. Now it's obvious we won't get answers anytime soon.

I just recently got into the manga so this was the first time I experienced the monthly wait, but I have to say: this chapter was blatant artificial lengthening of the plot.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Holy crap all that is a lot of collateral damage just to get one Monkey! Eren is right these guys are mass murderers.

Going back to what I said above, I have no idea why Reiner and Bert are keeping Eren in the dark about their objective, seeing how they're responsible for killing his mother. If they're trying to gain Eren on their side, the last thing they should be doing is pissing him off. >_>

I don't really like how not only Reiner and Bert, but even Ymir undervalues human life. The way Ymir downplays Eren's mother's death even though she'd probably react the same with Christa just makes me think a lot less of her than I already did.

[Kaizokugami]

I was royally disappointed with this chapter, 45 pages of back and forth bickering. Instead of feeling enlightened by the end of the chapter I felt more puzzled. We didn't really get any significant answers this time around, other than the confirmation that Reiner and Bertholdt do know who or what the ape titan is and were happy to see it which was already hinted. It really just felt like the author was trying to prolong things.

Originally Posted by Graydient

I don't really like how not only Reiner and Bert, but even Ymir undervalues human life. The way Ymir downplays Eren's mother's death even though she'd probably react the same with Christa just makes me think a lot less of her than I already did.

I agree with this, I lost a bit of respect for Ymir this chapter.

[Phantom]

Sorry for the comparison, but the plot at its current point is like Bleach.

Everybody else knows something that the main character doesn't and those pieces of info. are vital for the plot to keep moving.
Basically, everybody is mindfu***** the main character.
It seems that Eren is the only one who can do anything to stop the Titan Trios at this point.

[AVPlaya]

So I read the chapter... it seemed that Iseyama is really master of letting out info a bit at a time.

So I think some of my assumptions were probably inaccurate. At first I thought Ymir and Bert/Renier were playing good cop/bad cop with Eren, in that he'll eventually trust Ymir and heed her order to keep his cool after being captured (it still could be the case though!), but I think Ymir and B/R are really two different group of Intelligent Titans.

So are there two groups of Intelligent Titans, or maybe there was just 1 and they have splintered - Ymir's group wanted to help the walled humans while Annie/Bert/Reny's group wanted human-beings... to give it up?

And the ape-Titan's ability to create mindless Titans has been confirmed. What's their relationship? Ymir's group knows nothing about them? If that's the case then my theory of them being part of the war goes out of the window - the ape-titan and his group is not a commonly known enemy during the invasion.

So my current thought is as this: in order to fight the mindless Titans a group of people (soldiers, scientists, secret villagers, whatever) who discovered how to make human into Intelligent Titans and finally have a chance against them. The group somehow split into two - a group who wanted to help the wall humans to fight, and the other group who deemed staying in human form is hopeless and realize to survive in this new world is for some remaining human to become Intelligent Titans. The ape-Titan is perhaps a leader, and B/R are "warrior" of this group. One of their strategy was to destroy the wall and kill most humans, while turning some of them into Titans like them (like what Reny told Ymir he maybe able to do something for Christa). Ymir is the part of a group who wanted to help the wall human survive instead.

I don't really like this theory as much though. I hope I'm wrong and this is not where the story is heading. I don't want to see two groups of human fighting each other; I'd much rather have the ape-Titan as part of some non-human faction and the Intelligent titans groups are all finding ways to fight them for the sake of all mankind using different methods.

One thing I do find interesting is that they do need recovery time (maybe a long time even) to become Titan again. Although not stated specifically, it could still be blood supply. Blood is need to create the extra Titan-mass, and once they reach a limit (extra blood running out), they stop being Titan. To keep going might turn them into mindless Titans. Then they rest up for days waiting for the body to replenish the blood supply, just like you need to rest a month or two between blood donations. More mass you create, more blood you use, and less time you get to stay Titan form. This maybe why Colossal Titans can't stay in form for too long, and pretty much useless against wave after wave of mindless Titans.

[Avrorrange]

@AVPLAYA

The titans created by the ape doesn't seem to be intelligent. Besides that, ape titan's clearly not part of Reiner and Berthold's group--it's clearly the enemy of all groups. It's not surprising that turning into a titan requires stamina. Titan Eren returned to human form after it sustained so much damage that it wasn't able to maintain that form afterwards--Eren was unconscious for some time before being woken up by the @sshole commander.

[AVPlaya]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

@AVPLAYA

The titans created by the ape doesn't seem to be intelligent. Besides that, ape titan's clearly not part of Reiner and Berthold's group--it's clearly the enemy of all groups. It's not surprising that turning into a titan requires stamina. Titan Eren returned to human form after it sustained so much damage that it wasn't able to maintain that form afterwards--Eren was unconscious for some time before being woken up by the @sshole commander.

That part is what I didn't like about my new theory. Last few chapter we saw the ape-Titan toying with the whole group - including Bert/Reiny. I don't think the ape are friendly to them - or even know who they are.

I still hold to the thought that their purpose to destroy the walls has to do with free-ing the army of colossal giants inside. What I got out of this chapter is that they didn't care for human beings because they are now a new kind of human-titan hybrid who is fit to fight back against the ape-titan. That's why they feel pity for Eren? That to care about saving Connie is strange?

[Newhope]

Originally Posted by darthfanta

Spoiler for 46:

The only mystery learned is that the ape titan is the enemy of all factions, that's all. We learned a bit about Reiner going schizophrenic, characters kept getting cut off whenever they were going to mention more.

Didn't read the chapter properly, it's pretty clear Reiner and Bertholdt are from the same group as the ape titan and Ymir is as far as we know a free agent.

A few other things we learn about like regeneration, mental problems due to titan shifting aren't just limited to Eren ETC.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Graydient

I don't really like how not only Reiner and Bert, but even Ymir undervalues human life. The way Ymir downplays Eren's mother's death even though she'd probably react the same with Christa just makes me think a lot less of her than I already did.

They don't undervalue it, they're desensitized to it. You don't find the will to live day after day with people dying all around you, fearing you may be next, without learning to cope. Some people face it with idealism, like Armin, or revenge or hatred, like Eren, or by closing off emotions, like Annie, Ymir, or Mikasa, or by literally breaking in the head, like Ryner. There's lots of ways people cope.

I'm intrigued by Ryner's question of "Do you think this world has a future?" What an odd thing to say - it implies that an end to the world is coming. That the question was enough, combined with a "if we work together, we could save Christa" speech, to give Ymir pause, was eyebrow raising.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by richardtengcy

9) Not 100% sure but it seems true that there's a limit to how many time they can shapeshift to a Titan....probably due to the danger of becoming a mindless Titan.

FYI, the only limit is stamina. If lack stamina, will have lack of strength to move on, and maybe less focused, thus would have a tendency to go rampant. If Ymir was the oldest titan, then I don't see how would she lose her sanity after she transformed into a titan for an unknown period of time. But who knows how many times has she transformed into a titan.

Man, don't tell me you seriously believed in that jackass who made that preposterous 'theory' about a shifter would turn into a mindless titan if the more they transform.