Kanon - 2006 - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Mai doesn't reveal it, but she shows extreme cunning in winning shiritori everytime by adding a -san to every animal name.

winning? oO
well, it was in the SS-E translation : you lose shiritori game if you cannot say any word within a certain time limit, OR you have said a word wich ends with "n" (because it's simply impossible to find a word like this so...)
yuuichi was first caught offguard because of the san, then stunned that mai tried to sound "ok" by removing the "-san" from "kirin", while she was still losing

*edit : *slaps his own head* hu i see : you are talking about sayuri's comment how it is hard to play with mai, because she add the san, which would be from a hidden and cunning intent to win? *needs more reading comprehension...*

double mistake in only 1 post, GAH...

[Meophist]

I think Sayuri might be the smartest person in Kanon.

Edit: I was going to say the same thing as Klashikari, but I wasn't sure if Riddle was joking or not.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

winning? oO
well, it wasn't in the SS-E translation but, in fact, you lose shiritori game if you cannot say any word within a certain time limit, OR you have said a word wich ends with "n" (because it's simply impossible to find a word like this so...)

Yes, it was. Translation note at 4:42.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Yes, it was. Translation note at 4:42.

flat excuses m(_ _)m, i was only paying attention at the first note... (maybe a suggestion for a brighter font for the translation note? joke aside, my mistake indeed ~~)
gotta edit right away XD

Originally Posted by Meophist

I think Sayuri might be the smartest person in Kanon.

you are talking about her reasoning when she was young with her brother (being strict), her talking with the third person, or something else?

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

flat excuses m(_ _)m, i was only paying attention at the first note... (maybe a suggestion for a brighter font for the translation note? joke aside, my mistake indeed ~~)

Heh ^_^; ... that's one of the "gordian knot" problems of fansubbing: How many TLnotes, how long and how prominent they should be. Some want them long with a bright catchy font, some want them unintrusive and short - so that they don't disturb but can be watched via "pause" key, and some don't want them at all.

So we try for the middle compromise. At least we're then being hit by BOTH sides >_<;

j/k

[Devil Doll]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I say again, Pachelbel was a GERMAN. It means that his works carry GERMAN names. The name of the piece had nothing to do with latin or anything, it was plain GERMAN: "Kanon und Gigue in D-Dur".

Thanks for teaching me my native language...

Which language might Pachelbel have used for originally naming his work, given he lived in the 17th century and was a Christian church organist?

[Vexx]

I love when everyone is yelling and they're really sort of saying the same thing Gotta love the C/K-elts (or rather the Romans and their damned root language) for messing with the damned "C" sound

[aliensporebomb]

Originally Posted by Devil Doll

Excerpt:
The problem is: Yuuichi saved Mai's life in this scene. What can he (or Sayuri) do beyond that, as climax for episode 15? I'm really afraid it was too soon for this scene. Then again, with Yuuichi playing Sayuri's part here, Mai's shares for 'winning the game' are actually rising... )[/spoiler]As for the use of Pachelbel's Canon (originally from Latin, and there written with "c"... ) in the anime, it's already mentioned in Wikipedia.

He can:

Spoiler:

He can stand by her side against the demons and fight like heck.

Remember, her big issue really seems that she's all alone - her moment
of fear, frustration, sadness and rage was that the demons always left
her alone. The friend she lost when she was young, now Sayuri - she
is being boxed into a corner with only guilt, sadness and rage for company.

Like the preview said "You need someone to stand by your side."

And when the fight is done, God willing, they can help Sayuri in her recovery.

[kari-no-sugata]

Originally Posted by velocity7

And as for the "I like Sayuri" line, we had subbed it as "I care for Sayuri. I really do. That's why..." as it made the most sense context-wise. I feel that going by "I like Sayuri" or "I love Sayuri" has always been ambiguous, as Yuuichi had also said the same thing in episode 13 with the "Sayuri and I care for you!" line.

I'm a bit surprised to see all this talk about "[...] no koto ga suki"... (not just this post, but all around)

...since as far as I'm concerned this is pretty much always "I love you". AFAIK It's also most often used by guys - it can be considered a bit blunt (but that fits with Mai's personality).

I've only seen Kanon 2006, but it seems reasonable to me that Mai is saying "I love Sayuri. I really do. That's why..." or some such alternative ("I love Sayuri. Because I love her..."). I don't see this as being "love" in some kind of yuri way, but Mai expressing her "tough love" (nobody says "tough like").

[Sheba]

I gave it a 9 but not a 10, even tho I wish there are something like 9.5, or even 9.95.
It is excellent, the upper tier of excellent.

My opinion may be biased by my love for Mai Kawasumi, but I felt that everything was near perfect, but what really stood out the most are Sayuri's past and Mai's breakdown scene.
Is it the same person who said "Ni pah"?
My love for Mai arc is going crescendo and I am actually sad to see it going to end on the next one.

[Vexx]

@kari-no-sugata: Agreed... a lot of the discussion was actually meta-"suki" ... how in different anime the choice of words seems to be used inconsistently even allowing for unspoken context.

I also agree with your assessment of Mai's "agape" (greek for platonic "deep" love) versus the wishful thinking of some fan fiction ... but thats a never-ending debate with some and I'd rather not derail into it.

My own confusion over "sayuri-san-no-koto" stemmed from it being late and me just flying with my kana dictionary rather than looking for the kanji and a basic brain fart since my own language teacher has used that phrase in class a few times.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Is it the same person who said "Ni pah"?

yes it is. and also the same person who said "nano" and "fate-chan!!!"
sometimes, you are wondering if the seyuu really have a personal voice or something with such versatile tone and all

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

you are talking about her reasoning when she was young with her brother (being strict), her talking with the third person, or something else?

In general, I mean. It's a little deceiving watching her, but there's alot of small things that really shows great intelligence. She manages to hide it through her modesty, which is quite an admirable trait.

About the suki/like/love. The biggest problem is that these are very ambigious words with many meanings. What a particular character means when they say these words is dependant on the context. Even then, it can be hard to decipher.

[Sorrow-K]

That was good, but I wouldn't say that was outstanding, or among the best episodes of this series so far. This is less a criticism of KyoAni's execution and more a criticism of the Kanon story in general, but I've always found the Mai arc underwhelming compared to everyone else's. But the fact that they revealed Sayuri's background was certainly welcome and it really defined her character which, like Amano, was relegated to pretty much "plot-device" status in the Toei version. That's purely the advantage of having more time... they can flesh out these side characters properly.

I rewatched the first episode recently, and the difference in quality of animation between that and this was huge. As someone before mentioned, this is KyoAni's first experiment with a full season lenght series (Inuyasha doesn't count, since they didn't produce that, they merely helped with some of the animation) and I've always been slightly concerned that the animation quality wasn't going to remain consistent in the same way they managed to get away with in their shorter series. Sure, it's still excellent, but this isn't anywhere near their best work, visually.

It is good to see that they can do drama (though they proved that comprehensively with the Makoto arc). Truth be told, I was expecting something much worse to happen to Sayuri, though. Plot-wise, this is progressing pretty much exactly the same way as the Toei version, except this time we actually know why the characters made the choices they did, rather than people just suddenly showing up at the wrong place and the wrong time without reason.

[velocity7]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

I'm a bit surprised to see all this talk about "[...] no koto ga suki"... (not just this post, but all around)

...since as far as I'm concerned this is pretty much always "I love you". AFAIK It's also most often used by guys - it can be considered a bit blunt (but that fits with Mai's personality).

I've only seen Kanon 2006, but it seems reasonable to me that Mai is saying "I love Sayuri. I really do. That's why..." or some such alternative ("I love Sayuri. Because I love her..."). I don't see this as being "love" in some kind of yuri way, but Mai expressing her "tough love" (nobody says "tough like").

Hence why translating this sort of thing is tough. We could have left it as "like" or "love", but the way "suki" is being used here is still ambiguous anyway. Do you think Mai has the hawts for Sayuri? Maybe in the ero-version *cough* *cough* but this is supposed to be a serious story, right?

If Yuuichi had interpreted that "suki" the way the majority of you did, how would his face look at that moment?

[Killa_hurtz]

So...is Sayuri an hero, now?

[Devil Doll]

Originally Posted by Killa_hurtz

So...is Sayuri an hero, now?

So far she's only a victim. And given the events of episode 14 she has one less option for becoming a hero than she had in Kanon 2002.

[Killa_hurtz]

Originally Posted by Devil Doll

So far she's only a victim. And given the events of episode 14 she has one less option for becoming a hero than she had in Kanon 2002.

^Doesn't get the joke at all

[DragoonKain3]

Three highlights for me.

1) Nayuki waking up at the mere mention of her mom's jam. Man, if the jam can fully awake Nayuki when a bajillion clocks+Yuuichi won't, then the jam must be truly terrible indeed. LOL

2) Sayuri's story. I was in near tears, but not quite. That said, it was still good, though it would be so much better if they showed her to be much meaner in order to lets say, I don't know, maybe for example hint at that her meanness was the cause of her brother's death? It would make for a much better tear-jerker scene, however cliched it might be (god knows how many shows/dramas I've seen using that device), though I don't know if that's actually what transpired in the game so they might have avoided that just to stay true with the source.

3) Mai's berserk mode. Sure it ain't Oyashiro-mode, but I guess that's the closest thing I'll get to in Kanon. XD

[Sorrow-K]

Originally Posted by Killa_hurtz

So...is Sayuri an hero, now?

No, but Mai almost become an hero, if Kyuuichi wasn't there to stop her.