AnimeSuki Forums

idiffer · 2010-04-02, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

The whole series. The first trailer for the 11 episodes suggested it would be fast-paced and it never was. I guess i always hoped that it would become fast-paced in the films. Even though i doubted it myself, it's still anoying that they would sell the films as fast-paced aswell. I'm tempted to call it false advertisement.

just have to say that almost ALL of advertisement is false. misleading at best.
hmmm, good topic for a new thread...

CeDeR · 2010-04-02, 18:28

the anime series was an epic build up then the first movie was a terrible let down imo.Im pissed because i fucking bought it.*vomits*

fish eric · 2010-04-03, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by idiffer

just have to say that almost ALL of advertisement is false. misleading at best.
hmmm, good topic for a new thread...

you mean that advertising can be dishonest ?! Well I for one am shocked and appalled. Shocked and appalled. Hehe.

I am a little confused as to why he was in New York. Can someone please clarify if I understood this correctly?

He was in New York as part of his order to Juiz about becoming king. So they took him to New York as part of the illegitimate child angle?

Did I understand that correctly?

lilkirby · 2010-04-03, 23:26

Just watched the movie gg subbed.

wow, boring, confusing, lame -_-.

Spoiler for most exciting part and most memorable part of the movie:

Haak · 2010-04-04, 04:35

Although the film overall was pretty 'meh' I did very much like the scene where Takizawa is trying to remember his past as a kid in New York. He felt so human and it was very touching.

Azuma Denton · 2010-04-05, 09:05

I've watched the first movie...
And eventhough i'm saying that it doesnt excite me as the series does, it is a decent movie.
I'm placing my hope on second movie as the finale.

But i'm rather dissapointed when

Spoiler for meh:

roriconfan · 2010-04-06, 08:09

Review time. Feedback appreciated.

Spoiler for tl;dr:

Let’s start by mentioning that this review covers the series and the two following movies. So reading this review is like reading those two as well. They are after all the same story and the producers simply didn’t want to make this a full series for some reason.

So, Eden of the East. Such an amazing work and such a shitload overflow all wrapped up in the same package. It takes talent to be able to win and fail at the same time and indeed the guys who made this knew what they were doing.

For starters the animation gets a nice 10 from me for being so detailed and lively to the point of having nothing bad to say about it. Every background is brimming with details and colors, most of which really look like real locations of today’s urban America and Japan. All the characters’ movements are so smooth and lively most of the time, you really can’t compare them with the average stiff mouth-flapping cardboard of an average anime. All faces are drawn rather simple but have such an amazing liveliness in expressions, you can’t help adoring the characters. Not even the SD moments felt bad! And boy, the artistic touches they gave to the opening and ending themes with all that paperwork is simply stunning. Although not Miyazaki level, the animation is simply the best thing one can expect from tv series up to that point. I salute the work given here.

Sound? The same! 10 again even here. I usually don’t care much about this section but here it was something to praise. The opening song by Oasis is now amongst my favorites and not without a reason. The BMG and the voice acting are both good to hear, without any of the usual things I loath in anime. No ridiculous pinches, no random tunes, no unneeded noise in the background. And the dialogues have decent context when they don’t try to explain the otherwise messy story. I can’t find anything bad here as well.

So far, so good, a perfect mark to both animation and sound. Can it go on like this? … Nah, this is where things start to get ugly.

The story is one of those things that try to impress with a triple aerial flip but end up landing on their head. It felt really amazing at first, with the mystery behind a plethora of elements that webbed a global scale conspiracy concerning total control. And up to the first half of the series, it was also a perfect 10 as well. After that though… it lost all sense and justification. Specifically, when that bitch magically sprouts wings and flies out the window. That never made sense and was never explained. Not only how she did it but also why did she HAD to result to such a costly gimmick and not just open the freaking door and leave like any normal person would do. Up to that point, the series was presented logical, and justified. No magic gizmos and stuff. But after that? It became a random pile of unsupported facts and practically performed a U turn in themes and seriousness. Boy, it was terrible!
I will try to spoil as less as possible but it is needed to explain myself. We learn early on that the lead man did something to himself, all part of a grand masterplan that affects the lives of everyone in Japan… Why did he do it? What on Earth did he accomplished by doing that? I’ll tell you what. Nothing! He did it for no reason at all! It was nothing but a huge hindrance without a single good aspect! Not even that but guess what, he did the exact same thing again at the end of the series! Do you believe that? The exact same thing that did nothing but stomping him! What for??? No sane reason!
If you want me to pinpoint the root of all phail in this series, that would be none else that the use of one of the most overused and terribly executed tropes of all times. Amnesia! Yes, you heard right, loss of memory. I have yet to see a story where amnesia is not a lame excuse to prevent the story from ending right away. Even more, it is always done so conveniently, that it turns any story to a kindergarten level. So guess what, this anime managed to outdone itself by taking the use of such a trope to new lows. It is usually used once in most stories. Here? It is used all the time! As a stupid reset button that cancels all sense of progress and importance of events. Imagine you, busting your balls to get smart or wise or rich. And then for no sane reason, you decide to throw everything away and start from scratch! All supposed to be part of a plan to save lives when in practice none of this happens! It was a dumb thing to do, plain and simple! So, imagine then managing to recover all that you lost after lots of hard work and even knowing you hindered yourself like that. What do you do then? You throw everything away again for no sane reason! Do you believe how stupid this sounds? Well, it sounds epicly stupid if you include to all this, the fact that it is supposed to be a plan though by a genius! If it was a retard, I would understand the phail. But a genius??? And not only that, it also repeats the exact same mistake??? This goes beyond all scales of ridiculous! Thus, I give mark only to the first half of the series, which is like one third of the total duration, as worthy of a mark. The rest is a junkpile of stupidity, unworthy of even standing next to the initial episodes. Man, when will those scriptwriters learn not to use the wrong tropes? Or even when to stop using them instead of building more crap on top of that crap. I am really disappointed.

Onwards to the cast. As far as liking them for what they do or move or talk, I love them. Their lively expression, their vivid movements and naivety from time to time make them simply adorable! Even most of their motives are well presented most of the time… MOST of the time. Because when that tard of a trope called amnesia enters the frame, well, so long personalities! They forget anything they do and even the reason they did it in the first place, while even neglecting to mature or develop after all this shit. The story even has the nerve to end by resetting everything, a trope so terrible that it makes the dvd of this series to be useful only as target practice. So although I liked their personalities, as characters they are nothing of worth as they reset and don’t mature and don’t even think sane most of the time. Just terrible! I give half score to the cast, for being victims of the farce that is the story.

So, does this series has replay or historical value? Well, it sure had a lot more before that terrible use of pukenesia. I still say it is very pleasing to watch with a blank mind as visuals and music are great, while the cast is adorable. I suggest it as yet another easily digested work of fiction but I also make sure to add a huge anathema to it for wasting an otherwise great start… Yes, once again we have an anime which starts great and jerks around more and more as it goes on. Sigh!

qwertyuiopz · 2010-04-06, 11:48

they crammed a lot into the first movie and the plot is becoming too convenient
a 2nd season would have probably been better than 2 movies

idiffer · 2010-04-06, 11:51

roriconfan,

Spoiler for question concerning review:

roriconfan · 2010-04-06, 12:24

^ I didn't want to name characters or machines and the message gets across even without that.

Mystique · 2010-04-07, 21:54

Uhh, we've seen the series for most part and this is the movie thread.
So mentioning names or what happened in episode 11 isn't really a spoiler, not to mention, you stuck it in a spoiler tag

So in short you...

Spoiler for roriconfan rant:

Agreed on the last note you made about an anime that has such great potential but kinda mangled it at the end, well Kamiyama is the sole creator of EotE, so you'd need to snag him for an interview someday (or read all the director interviews in the mags) so perhaps get a better idea of where he was coming from or what he wanted to say.
Alike GITS, I wouldn't be surprised if it was political in someway...

roriconfan · 2010-04-08, 01:19

^

Spoiler for reply to Mystique:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystique

I can understand if you were pissed off at the stunt Mr Outside pulled, then again it was just an experiment of his and the country did change as a result

Ok, but I doubt the lead dude was "experimenting" on how to save Japan with his amnesia trick. It was presented as a masterplan he had planned all along to save the country. Yeah, he and Aizen (of Bleach) are probably buddies with this sort of plans they come up with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystique

How did she do it, she commanded Juiz to create a 'elegant' massive illusion to help her escape.
The damage was real though it seemed although she meddled with the police reports (as mentioned in ep 8)
The only fuzzy part of what was illusion and what was real is where it leaves areas of grey.
But I doubt most serial killers are really gonna just walk out normally with a hogtied victim in their hands.

Way too vague of an explanation to be deemed pardoned. Even illusion needs more explaining than this... unless it was a Sharingan type of illusion where we are supposed to dub it winbutton and STFU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystique

Next, uuh the entire concept of the Noblesse mobiles is somewhat of a magic phone, or to quote the characters 'mahou no keitai'
Rather that was the attraction of the series at the start, a mobile that can grant wishes. So rather till this day, how an AI machine can pull off manipulating reality, I'll never know (but i gotta check the movies with subs later) - but that was a tad disappointing. Juiz reduced to being in a tank lorry.

That is why I wrote it had no magic gizmos at first. The phone was not presented as such. Not until the later part of the story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystique

Alike GITS, I wouldn't be surprised if it was political in someway...

Really hard to place the two on the same category (no chance in hell on the same level).

I also wander if I should add in the review why was the series rated so high, ie because it was a shitty season when it aired and people found this one refreshing.

Haak · 2010-04-08, 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

I also wander if I should add in the review why was the series rated so high, ie because it was a shitty season when it aired and people found this one refreshing.

You can talk about what Eden of the East was to you, but please don't stray to what you think it was to others.

roriconfan · 2010-04-08, 04:37

Oh, so what was it to others? Now that the second movie is about to be seen by most, I get the idea that the above statement I made is the closest for most.
...No, wait, I know what you will reply, a series can be very good even if the story or the characters make no sense. I keep seeing this too orthological. It's like you like reading the book and not what the book is about.

Haak · 2010-04-08, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Oh, so what was it to others? Now that the second movie is about to be seen by most, I get the idea that the above statement I made is the closest for most.
...No, wait, I know what you will reply, a series can be very good even if the story or the characters make no sense. I keep seeing this too orthological. It's like you like reading the book and not what the book is about.

That's not really the point now is it.

However much you like to think, your analysis is not absolute. You can have the opinion that is absolute, there's nothing wrong with that, but that makes it subjective. When you're judging other people and their views, it's irrational and disrespectful to judge them on a subjective premise. It's like those bloody religious bigots judging other people and their views based on their subjective belief in God.

idiffer · 2010-04-08, 11:26

^ and what is wrong with roriconfans statement? did you not find eden refreshing?
about the review...
it would help if you included a target audience in your reviews or smth.
like "eden would be liked by those with high suspension-of-disbelief skills". i think i cant get any more objective, srsly

Haak · 2010-04-08, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by idiffer

^ and what is wrong with roriconfans statement? did you not find eden refreshing?

Well no not really, but that's not the God damn point. As I said, there's nothing wrong with his statement and he is free to have it as an opinion. But it is not fact. And you can't judge other people on anything less than fact.

roriconfan · 2010-04-08, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

That's not really the point now is it.

However much you like to think, your analysis is not absolute. You can have the opinion that is absolute, there's nothing wrong with that, but that makes it subjective. When you're judging other people and their views, it's irrational and disrespectful to judge them on a subjective premise. It's like those bloody religious bigots judging other people and their views based on their subjective belief in God.

If we take this statement to extremes then there is nothing valid to write in any review. Everything a review states is subjective, like what you think of the animation or the story. So why not state why the average you give to a series is so much away from the average of the series and then take this to a broader view? Heck, might as well start by saying "my opinion of why this series has a high average is..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by idiffer

it would help if you included a target audience in your reviews or smth.
like "eden would be liked by those with high suspension-of-disbelief skills". i think i cant get any more objective, srsly

I used to add age at first but that was way too subjective. I mean, who am I to say if a series is too violent for 8 yo? Then I tried to add target groups but someone reading the review should be able to realise what the series is about without you telling him if it suits him or not. As for the "high suspension-of-disbelief skills", well, lol, 99% of anime require that so it is not much of help to add it.

roriconfan · 2010-04-08, 12:01

double post - delete

idiffer · 2010-04-08, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Well no not really, but that's not the God damn point. As I said, there's nothing wrong with his statement and he is free to have it as an opinion. But it is not fact. And you can't judge other people on anything less than fact.

actually most ppl do exactly what you are argueing against. its called "stereotypes". no scratch that, EVERYONE judges ppl on smth LESS than fact. not in ALL cases of course, but still a big portion of the time. so its nothing to be surprised about...
roriconfan
well, yeah. you do have a point...

2010-04-03, 23:26	Link #144
lilkirby Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Just watched the movie gg subbed. wow, boring, confusing, lame -_-. Spoiler for most exciting part and most memorable part of the movie: is when saki carried the gun. and her face goes OMG! WHAT THE .... I was hoping the rest of the movie was going to be quirky and cute moments like that but sadly it was just talking... =(

2010-04-04, 04:35	Link #145
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Although the film overall was pretty 'meh' I did very much like the scene where Takizawa is trying to remember his past as a kid in New York. He felt so human and it was very touching. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners Last edited by Haak; 2010-04-04 at 10:29.

2010-04-05, 09:05	Link #146
Azuma Denton ~AD~ Join Date: Oct 2006	I've watched the first movie... And eventhough i'm saying that it doesnt excite me as the series does, it is a decent movie. I'm placing my hope on second movie as the finale. But i'm rather dissapointed when Spoiler for meh: No 1 elimanated other Selecao by destroying Juiz.

2010-04-06, 11:51	Link #149
idiffer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Age: 35	roriconfan, Spoiler for question concerning review: why didnt you mention Juiz? it wouldnt have really been a spoiler. its an important part of the plot. + hey, i mean, to me it IS a magic gizmo... anyway, even a more or less neutral sentance would have been enough. __________________ My posts seem retarted? I invoke the freedomof choice upon thee to choose one of the below. a) I’m batshit insane or mentally challenged. Nyan! b) Wasu~p?! brofist c) Your mind is too narrow to embrace my genius, de geso. d) I was accidentally dropped into a barrel of whiskey, so now I am constantly drunk. e) Go home and die! Dattebayo!

2010-04-07, 21:54	Link #151
Mystique Honyaku no Hime Fansubber Join Date: May 2008 Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...	Uhh, we've seen the series for most part and this is the movie thread. So mentioning names or what happened in episode 11 isn't really a spoiler, not to mention, you stuck it in a spoiler tag So in short you... Spoiler for roriconfan rant: Hated the storyline cause Akira pulled the amnesia stunt twice. (I can understand if you were pissed off at the stunt Mr Outside pulled, then again it was just an experiment of his and the country did* change as a result) Diana sprouted wings yes (most epic moment of them all) xD Loved it! How did she do it, she commanded Juiz to create a 'elegant' massive illusion to help her escape. The damage was real though it seemed although she meddled with the police reports (as mentioned in ep 8) The only fuzzy part of what was illusion and what was real is where it leaves areas of grey. But I doubt most serial killers are really gonna just walk out normally with a hogtied victim in their hands. Next, uuh the entire concept of the Noblesse mobiles is somewhat of a magic phone, or to quote the characters 'mahou no keitai' Rather that was the attraction of the series at the start, a mobile that can grant wishes. So rather till this day, how an AI machine can pull off manipulating reality, I'll never know (but i gotta check the movies with subs later) - but that was a tad disappointing. Juiz reduced to being in a tank lorry. Agreed on the last note you made about an anime that has such great potential but kinda mangled it at the end, well Kamiyama is the sole creator of EotE, so you'd need to snag him for an interview someday (or read all the director interviews in the mags) so perhaps get a better idea of where he was coming from or what he wanted to say. Alike GITS, I wouldn't be surprised if it was political in someway... __________________ Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder "If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia

2010-04-02, 18:28	Link #142
CeDeR Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Usa	the anime series was an epic build up then the first movie was a terrible let down imo.Im pissed because i fucking bought it.vomits

2010-04-06, 08:09	Link #147
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	Review time. Feedback appreciated. Spoiler for tl;dr: Let’s start by mentioning that this review covers the series and the two following movies. So reading this review is like reading those two as well. They are after all the same story and the producers simply didn’t want to make this a full series for some reason. So, Eden of the East. Such an amazing work and such a shitload overflow all wrapped up in the same package. It takes talent to be able to win and fail at the same time and indeed the guys who made this knew what they were doing. For starters the animation gets a nice 10 from me for being so detailed and lively to the point of having nothing bad to say about it. Every background is brimming with details and colors, most of which really look like real locations of today’s urban America and Japan. All the characters’ movements are so smooth and lively most of the time, you really can’t compare them with the average stiff mouth-flapping cardboard of an average anime. All faces are drawn rather simple but have such an amazing liveliness in expressions, you can’t help adoring the characters. Not even the SD moments felt bad! And boy, the artistic touches they gave to the opening and ending themes with all that paperwork is simply stunning. Although not Miyazaki level, the animation is simply the best thing one can expect from tv series up to that point. I salute the work given here. Sound? The same! 10 again even here. I usually don’t care much about this section but here it was something to praise. The opening song by Oasis is now amongst my favorites and not without a reason. The BMG and the voice acting are both good to hear, without any of the usual things I loath in anime. No ridiculous pinches, no random tunes, no unneeded noise in the background. And the dialogues have decent context when they don’t try to explain the otherwise messy story. I can’t find anything bad here as well. So far, so good, a perfect mark to both animation and sound. Can it go on like this? … Nah, this is where things start to get ugly. The story is one of those things that try to impress with a triple aerial flip but end up landing on their head. It felt really amazing at first, with the mystery behind a plethora of elements that webbed a global scale conspiracy concerning total control. And up to the first half of the series, it was also a perfect 10 as well. After that though… it lost all sense and justification. Specifically, when that bitch magically sprouts wings and flies out the window. That never made sense and was never explained. Not only how she did it but also why did she HAD to result to such a costly gimmick and not just open the freaking door and leave like any normal person would do. Up to that point, the series was presented logical, and justified. No magic gizmos and stuff. But after that? It became a random pile of unsupported facts and practically performed a U turn in themes and seriousness. Boy, it was terrible! I will try to spoil as less as possible but it is needed to explain myself. We learn early on that the lead man did something to himself, all part of a grand masterplan that affects the lives of everyone in Japan… Why did he do it? What on Earth did he accomplished by doing that? I’ll tell you what. Nothing! He did it for no reason at all! It was nothing but a huge hindrance without a single good aspect! Not even that but guess what, he did the exact same thing again at the end of the series! Do you believe that? The exact same thing that did nothing but stomping him! What for??? No sane reason! If you want me to pinpoint the root of all phail in this series, that would be none else that the use of one of the most overused and terribly executed tropes of all times. Amnesia! Yes, you heard right, loss of memory. I have yet to see a story where amnesia is not a lame excuse to prevent the story from ending right away. Even more, it is always done so conveniently, that it turns any story to a kindergarten level. So guess what, this anime managed to outdone itself by taking the use of such a trope to new lows. It is usually used once in most stories. Here? It is used all the time! As a stupid reset button that cancels all sense of progress and importance of events. Imagine you, busting your balls to get smart or wise or rich. And then for no sane reason, you decide to throw everything away and start from scratch! All supposed to be part of a plan to save lives when in practice none of this happens! It was a dumb thing to do, plain and simple! So, imagine then managing to recover all that you lost after lots of hard work and even knowing you hindered yourself like that. What do you do then? You throw everything away again for no sane reason! Do you believe how stupid this sounds? Well, it sounds epicly stupid if you include to all this, the fact that it is supposed to be a plan though by a genius! If it was a retard, I would understand the phail. But a genius??? And not only that, it also repeats the exact same mistake??? This goes beyond all scales of ridiculous! Thus, I give mark only to the first half of the series, which is like one third of the total duration, as worthy of a mark. The rest is a junkpile of stupidity, unworthy of even standing next to the initial episodes. Man, when will those scriptwriters learn not to use the wrong tropes? Or even when to stop using them instead of building more crap on top of that crap. I am really disappointed. Onwards to the cast. As far as liking them for what they do or move or talk, I love them. Their lively expression, their vivid movements and naivety from time to time make them simply adorable! Even most of their motives are well presented most of the time… MOST of the time. Because when that tard of a trope called amnesia enters the frame, well, so long personalities! They forget anything they do and even the reason they did it in the first place, while even neglecting to mature or develop after all this shit. The story even has the nerve to end by resetting everything, a trope so terrible that it makes the dvd of this series to be useful only as target practice. So although I liked their personalities, as characters they are nothing of worth as they reset and don’t mature and don’t even think sane most of the time. Just terrible! I give half score to the cast, for being victims of the farce that is the story. So, does this series has replay or historical value? Well, it sure had a lot more before that terrible use of pukenesia. I still say it is very pleasing to watch with a blank mind as visuals and music are great, while the cast is adorable. I suggest it as yet another easily digested work of fiction but I also make sure to add a huge anathema to it for wasting an otherwise great start… Yes, once again we have an anime which starts great and jerks around more and more as it goes on. Sigh!

2010-04-06, 11:48	Link #148
qwertyuiopz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009	they crammed a lot into the first movie and the plot is becoming too convenient a 2nd season would have probably been better than 2 movies

2010-04-06, 12:24	Link #150
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	^ I didn't want to name characters or machines and the message gets across even without that.

2010-04-08, 04:37	Link #154
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	Oh, so what was it to others? Now that the second movie is about to be seen by most, I get the idea that the above statement I made is the closest for most. ...No, wait, I know what you will reply, a series can be very good even if the story or the characters make no sense. I keep seeing this too orthological. It's like you like reading the book and not what the book is about.

2010-04-08, 11:26	Link #156
idiffer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Russia, Moscow Age: 35	^ and what is wrong with roriconfans statement? did you not find eden refreshing? about the review... it would help if you included a target audience in your reviews or smth. like "eden would be liked by those with high suspension-of-disbelief skills". i think i cant get any more objective, srsly __________________ My posts seem retarted? I invoke the freedomof choice upon thee to choose one of the below. a) I’m batshit insane or mentally challenged. Nyan! b) Wasu~p?! brofist c) Your mind is too narrow to embrace my genius, de geso. d) I was accidentally dropped into a barrel of whiskey, so now I am constantly drunk. e) Go home and die! Dattebayo!

2010-04-08, 12:01	Link #159
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	double post - delete